Can we talk about clothing brands and target demographics?

[CrkdLttrCrkdLttr]

Because I’m thinking about the brands that form the core of my ‘going out to meet other grown ups’ wardrobe, and laughing at the Margaret Howell mail shot I’ve just opened. (Socks and sandals photo.) Beautiful young model, and each garment will be wonderfully well made - but I know no one under fifty who wears MH. That’s fine - but I wish the marketing acknowledged the fact.

When a brand does make an effort to engage with the real buyers of its clothes I’m full of awe and gratitude - Raey at Matches is usually great at this.

Studio Nicholson hovers somewhere in between. Again, everyone I know (in the UK) who wears their clothes is older and richer than me, probably in a creative profession. Not a wispy 20 year old.

I never used to care. But I’m wondering if marketing is the reason 99% of the middle aged and older women on MN exclaim that there are no decent clothes for them. There are - but not every brand tells you so.

*constricted but I suppose constructed works too...

Aaargh! While I’m waiting for lunch I want to be engaging with all your wonderful reminiscences - but I’m trying to make up my mind about a newly arrived dress.

Bargain in the sales - but they on slapped an Extra 20% Off the minute mine was despatched, so I feel disgruntled. (Though I suspect they had fewer than one left at that point …)

The dullest blue I’ve ever encountered. But usually I embrace deliberate ugliness so I’m not sure. Should I trust the designers?

Fits perfectly around my body. But I’m at my Winter weight - though maybe I won’t want a wool dress when I’m a more svelte, Summer size. (Optimistic 10 down to squeezy 8 across seasons.)

Bloody ankle length - when I was hoping for long midi. (Could be hitched up with a leather belt rather than the delicate wool provided.)

It’s not even my usual style. Lots of admittedly rather elegant wool + cashmere.

Despite all this - it feels gorgeous to swish about in. And will be so easy to ‘throw on’ () over Spring. And will look good on Zoom. (Deep V neck).) And is the only thing that suits the Grenson boots I really must wear. (Mistake) And I want to wear it this week.

I already have a Returns code - but …

(Ignore me, I’m just thinking aloud.)

@botemp I loved reading your reminesinces & they brought back happy memories of me buying only Pomme D'Api shoes & boots for my own (now late teens) dd!!
Even on my 40th birthday which was spent in sleety/ snowy Paris I insisted that dh & spent a significant part of the day trudging across Paris to local the Pomme D'Api shop in the mistaken belief that they would have a better selection than the department store in our city. And we didn't even have dd with us! And I was bitterly disappointed with the choice & bought nothing. But we did have a fabulous celebratory lunch in Les Deux Maggots en route to escape the cold (feb) & I still sometimes think about those cakes !

And as it happens we have some of Edmund Goreys books & dd became obsessed with The Doubtful Guest' & brought it every where with her (in her amazing shoes !)

Locate not local

Show us, show us @CrkdLttrCrkdLttr, it sounds gorgeous!

Loving the reminiscences. I have often ruminated on what a seismic shift happened in women’s clothing over the 20th century. I’d like to read a book on it actually and learn more.

Lingerie - there was a fabulous exhibition at the V&A on the history of bras a few years ago. Pretty confident some of you will have visited that too. Fascinating to see the progression from ‘stays’ through corsetry to the technology of the present day.

When I was a young, thin, international thing full of self confidence and adventure, I bought an exquisite thirties silk and lace slip in a flea market in Buenos Aires whilst there for work purposes. I then wore it as a dress to a wedding - christ, what was I thinking; ivory silk and lace to someone else’s wedding! I do cringe looking back, but it was the nineties and the height of underwear as outerwear, and I thought it would be ok teemed with a pink jacket and heels.

Fortunately the bride was the sort to not give a damn. We are still friends.

Photo of it on someone nothing like me … (Wish I had the cardigan!)

@Enheduanna loved your description of your silks and the spirit of using them! I can really sympathise with rebelling against the "keeping for the best" mentality of our dear forebearers

In terms of bags and shoes. I forever had a very comfortable and cheap bag from a danish brand Becksöndergaard. I always wore bags cross body and it was an ideal size that would fit a thin book, horizontally, a slightly thinner and bigger version of modern camera bags. I didn't manage to find a suitable alternative and I now have 3 bags, a sling bag, Margaret Howell saddle bag and Isabel Marant's Basko bag.
I realised I can't stand sharp corners in bags and I want my bags with soft round corners.

Shoes are more difficult. I have very high arches, which is very bad because your foot has few points where it touches the ground and so can't adequately support the weight of your body. The best way to deal with this, I found, is exercise. First, there are stretches for the soles of the feet and then you can exercise the muscles that run in that part of your leg that is right in front of your calf (sorry for the clumsy explanation). Physio can even tape that muscle to activate it - it runs across the front of the lower part of the leg, very weirdly, diagonally. Fellow sufferers, look this up; it is really effective.

So, for shoes, for years I would only buy the ones that felt comfortable on my feet at the point of trying. (by the way, Ancient Greek Sandals I found uncomfortable). Recently, I was pleasantly surprised that some of the higher price shoes - Margaret Howell's Mary Janes or loafers that weren't immediately supercomfortable, quickly adapted to my feet and so now I am considering widening my repertoire.

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr very difficult to advise. Do you have a fuller top part that will carry the low cut? I couldn't wear it because I'm very small chested and if I lean over in a dress like that my entire body can be seen. It looks wonderful though, if you can wear it, then why not?

@CrkdLttrCrkdLttr I do think you need to love a dress like that instantly and the colour is one of those where your own skin tone needs a powdery quality to it. Life's too short for dull blue, the cardigan looks way more exciting to me.

Okaydonkey ·
Wait, The Vampires Wife is not day wear? I’ve been doing that wrong then. (Swishes cape, to one side, in order the type better.)

Wait! Daywear? You should be in your coffin, asleep!!!!

My mother made the same point when I showed her a photo on FaceTime, @microbius . It’s not actually quite as deep a V as it looks. (l wonder if they put the model in a larger size and pinned it at the back, to make it appear more louche?)

I agree, @botemp - but it somehow feels like something (someone!) I will grow to love more over years. It would be a comforting thing to have in the wardrobe. And I admit to extravagant (if vague) plans for huge yachting cardigans (Begg has an impossible one, Margaret Howell had the best, years ago,) or even a very old person’s leather or sheepskin jacket that would be gorgeous with it.

OP: AIBU?
Thread: Yes!
OP: Yes, but …!

thanks @MerryChristmasToYou thats a great idea! And yes @StephenDedalus they were true to size!

I love that shade of blue. I think if you’ve got the figure for it (I do not) then keep it!

There's always a reason something's in the dredges of the sale @CrkdLttrCrkdLttr...

I've wondered about this beforeEnheduanna, do prickly things really say fuck off or do they say I'm sensitive and need extra protection? It's a bit like colour theory where there's two schools of thought.

Yes, it probably is both but I was more thinking how does it read to other people, I've never really come across anyone that does the hard metal power dressing in full that was a thing on the runway for a bit, warrior women and such.

Just musing the whole Barbara Streisand effect of it, if you don't want to draw attention to something don't go through great lengths very obviously covering it up. So does it end up reading like a warning signal or are you wearing your vulnerability on your metaphorical sleeve?

Her home, she drew a lot of attention that she wanted to keep her home hidden 🙈

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

But in terms of clothes, it's that thing of if you don't like your bum don't wear weird long things to cover it or the weird leggings if you don't like your legs. Nobody probably gave those things any attention when people initially did that but then women's magazines (and maybe Trinny and Susannah) started pointing it out and then basically anyone covering their bum/legs was insecure about their bums/legs.

I used to wear cuffs with studs in. But it was as a teenage goth, so I wasn’t really trying to convey anything beyond teenage rebellion and a tribal belonging to the alternative music scene. I do remember my A-Level maths teacher commenting that it wasn’t very ‘ladylike’.

Yes, and very context specific, see my previous comment on Karl Lagerfeld, Anna Wintour et al and their I don't care about my own clothes uniform.

But there's a lot of room for projection, see the much scorned in online spaces, blue haired social justice warrior. Those choices are probably coming from a place of I'm different and I celebrate that and will be read like that by like-minded but it gets translated by political opponents into "I'm speshul and crave attention".

I really struggle to find anything to wear. I have a more healthy budget and happy to buy less but better. I'm a size 16 and 50, nobody markets to me.

In fact my evening dress is from the only (online) retailer who bothered to have photos on the site of models of larger sizes, it meant I could judge what it might look like on me (they weren't my age but was larger than me)