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What happened to S&B?

463 replies

janlevinson · 15/05/2021 18:59

I used to browse this topic regularly several years ago and I enjoyed the recommendations of Ash high tops, Net A Porter sale items and high end make up, amongst other things. Loved reading what LetThemEatCake had been buying.
I've been having migrating over to here again recently after a long time away and it's all Roman Originals, granny sandals and things that "wash well".
WTF happened?
~lighthearted~

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Mistressinthetulips · 22/05/2021 14:02

I'm assuming neverdropamooncup's employers also don't think she's disabled, or they would be better at making reasonable adjustments for her variation on the dress code.
In the past year I have had, at varying times, major foot pain due to plantar fasciitis (solved through wearing Birkenstock's - are they in? Are they out? My feet don't care); I've also had lots of probably-permimenopausal irritation when wearing jeans or any tight trousers, and the icing on the cake is a frozen shoulder which affects which tops I can wear.
I'm not in some separate category called "disabled", none of these have lasted long enough for that, and disabled people are not without the desire to be fashionable or stylish too.
We have to work with what we've got and make the most of it. Would be nice not to be judged for what we can't help though.

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 22/05/2021 14:18

@thedevilinablackdress and @Blossomtoes Thank you - but that does illustrate a problem. That people internalise and share the default position of style = not disabled without meaning to.

Which feels pretty lousy, to be honest, and is at least a contributor to some people saying fashion/style is all a load of bollocks, because it's already rejected them; the hurt of knowing that in the eyes of others, your foot wear/clothing and by extension, your body, is disgusting and there's no excuse for it unless you advertise your medical details to gain permission to look ugly.

It carries on to clothing as well. Perhaps a stretchy wrap dress is horrible because it's not what is being worn by bright young things at present, but if you can't physically reach behind your back to do up or undo the zip of a beautifully tailored dress in your size because your shoulder will dislocate, and you still need to wear things at work that appear more formal than a nylon floaty flowery thing that'll go over your head, well, the stretchy wrap dress is the one that allows you to get in and out of it without difficulty.

Perhaps those leggings under a tunic are because they have POTS and need to wear compression leggings/tights to not faint when they stand up and would rather hear that it looks nice, rather than 'Oh, God, Mumsy Scruff' or suchlike? Or even that they know they cannot wear a dress that short at work because it's halfway up the thigh/the first puff of wind would have their backside or Psoriasis on show if bare legs and fake tan are the only acceptable option now tights are 'dated'? Do they want to have to justify asking about them by prefacing everything with their medical details? I certainly don't; it's boring for me to have to think about them all the time, I'd rather a bit of relief from it all.

Like I said earlier in this thread about the suggestion of splitting the board into fashion and comfortable, it creates a division of 'Young/using aesthetic procedures/slim and rich Fashion and Style' and 'Poor/fat/disabled and old Wearing Clothes'. I still want to look good and at least vaguely aware of trends - in reality, not looking quite so much like a sack of spuds tied up ugly whilst keeping my employers happy is my goal.

I've no idea what percentage of my disposable income I've spent on Fashion and Beauty since I got my first Saturday job aged 15. But it's a hell of a lot. I don't want to completely drop out of all consideration of style because the disabilities have progressed since that point. I've had lovely advice on this board - but at the same time, there is a constant drip-drip-drip in S&B which does whisper 'What we actually mean is that there's no place for your kind here'.

I'm not directing all of this at just you two, please don't think that and I do really appreciate your responses - but things like 'no excuse' really do reinforce that feeling that society doesn't want you in their gang, and you should be somewhere off in the distance/a darkened room not offending their eyes.

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 22/05/2021 14:20

@Mistressinthetulips

I'm assuming neverdropamooncup's employers also don't think she's disabled, or they would be better at making reasonable adjustments for her variation on the dress code. In the past year I have had, at varying times, major foot pain due to plantar fasciitis (solved through wearing Birkenstock's - are they in? Are they out? My feet don't care); I've also had lots of probably-permimenopausal irritation when wearing jeans or any tight trousers, and the icing on the cake is a frozen shoulder which affects which tops I can wear. I'm not in some separate category called "disabled", none of these have lasted long enough for that, and disabled people are not without the desire to be fashionable or stylish too. We have to work with what we've got and make the most of it. Would be nice not to be judged for what we can't help though.
Oh, they know alright. They have all known. This one is the most conciliatory about it, though.
pinkmagnolias · 22/05/2021 14:30

I think this very much depends on your own preference and definition of stylish. I think we forget on S&B that we really don't ask mean the same thing when we use this word! I wear trainers, chunky boots, brogues, chunky sandals. Brands like Camper, ECCO, Clarks, Solovair, ASICS. Therefore I don't struggle to find comfort within that

Let’s be honest. None of the above brands are in any way stylish.

Therefore, people ask for recommendations for comfortable shoes, the above are trotted out. But if people ask for comfortable and stylish shoes, the above are never going to fit the brief.

The real problem is there are so few shoes that people can ‘walk in all day’ and ‘are like wearing slippers’ that actually look good too. There is a void that can’t be filled and the best we can do is suggest some that aren’t as bad as others maybe.

NotMeNoNo · 22/05/2021 14:58

I think people are confusing fashionable/on trend with getting dressed up/smart. If you have it fixed in mind that stylish is what you wear to a wedding or party, "Sunday best", then obviously you won't want chunky shoes or trainers. But fashion now is more relaxed/everyday style and that's why it's confusing one thread is on designer boots or trainers and another is "ugh, clumpy/fugly".

If you think comfort is incompatible with looking "good" that's got to be a weirdly narrow definition of style. Why are nine out of ten models on shopping sites wearing trainers or flat ankle boots?

thedevilinablackdress · 22/05/2021 15:04

Let’s be honest. None of the above brands are in any way stylish.

But I think they are @pinkmagnolias
(Ok maybe not ASICS or quite a lot of the ECCO) and this is exactly my point! What you think it's stylish, and what I think is stylish can be quite different things.

Readyorknot · 22/05/2021 15:13

@NeverDropYourMoonCup I'm not sure that I entirely understand to be honest... what is it that you would like from s&b? Or, to put it another way, how would you like it to change to accommodate you?

Blondiney · 22/05/2021 15:15

The board has become far too worthy and finger waggy. It's clothes FFS.

Readyorknot · 22/05/2021 15:15

I don't think you can classify any one brand as "inherently" unstylish @pinkmagnolias. There are gems everywhere if you know how to style them

Blossomtoes · 22/05/2021 15:20

@thedevilinablackdress

Let’s be honest. None of the above brands are in any way stylish.

But I think they are @pinkmagnolias
(Ok maybe not ASICS or quite a lot of the ECCO) and this is exactly my point! What you think it's stylish, and what I think is stylish can be quite different things.

Exactly that. I don’t think there’s any single brand where every product is stylish and, as a pp said, there’s the odd gem in most brands. Add to that the diversity in opinions of what stylish actually is and there’s never going to be agreement.
RampantIvy · 22/05/2021 15:35

How do you define "stylish" though? One person's stylish is another person's frumpy.

ElspethFlashman · 22/05/2021 16:00

Have you tried Fitflop?

There are some gems if you look. They seem to have gotten a new designer and are trying to broaden their range. They have these new '90s clogs out called Pilar which I'm sitting on my hands not to order.

ncgy · 22/05/2021 17:53

The real problem is there are so few shoes that people can ‘walk in all day’ and ‘are like wearing slippers’ that actually look good too. There is a void that can’t be filled and the best we can do is suggest some that aren’t as bad as others maybe.

It's been a good five yrs plus where very practical & comfortable shoes have also been fashionable, Chelsea boots, hiking books, chunky sandals, trainers, DMs, crocs

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 22/05/2021 18:14

[quote Readyorknot]@NeverDropYourMoonCup I'm not sure that I entirely understand to be honest... what is it that you would like from s&b? Or, to put it another way, how would you like it to change to accommodate you?[/quote]
Perhaps remembering that this isn't a Vogue Magazine bulletin board or a workplace in the 1990s, where seemingly innocuous phrases like 'how would you like it to change to accommodate you?' can also be charged with 'What makes YOU so special that you think you should be allowed to wear flat shoes instead of heels?' would be a start.

S&B should remain as an inclusive space for all posters to be able to talk about clothes, shoes, makeup and haircare, whether they have oodles of money/physical perfection/youth on their side or not. Not an elitist 'Well, if you want to talk about comfortable shoes or clothes that look nice/smart/fashionable/flattering/pretty/whatever and you can put on without hearing a clunk as your shoulder pops out of its socket, I'm sure there's a disability board somewhere'.

pinkmagnolias · 22/05/2021 18:18

It's been a good five yrs plus where very practical & comfortable shoes have also been fashionable, Chelsea boots, hiking books, chunky sandals, trainers, DMs, crocs

I don’t understand whether you mean five years since they have been stylish or five years of being stylish.
From the above - leaving Grenson aside, what hiking boots are stylish? And were Crocs ever stylish?
Trainers are too broad to declare them either stylish or non stylish. There is a big difference between Stan Smiths, Golden Goose and ASICS.

They are similar to jeans. Nobody says jeans are stylish or not stylish. However my 1990s fit and flare jeans would stick out like a sore thumb against the current girlfriend jeans.
DMs go in and out of fashion and Chelsea boots are a staple.

ncgy · 22/05/2021 19:27

Are you talking about style or fashion, they are not necessarily the same thing.

Of the shoes styles I mentioned a version of have has been in fashion for 5 yrs plus.
Hiking boot style, which were the best selling shape before clumpy chelsea took over.
Crocs are super on trend now (I hate them).
Stan Smiths were the trainer for yrs after Phoebe Philo worn them in 2010 (?). It takes a few yrs for things to trickle down hence why Chanels dad sandals are still the sandal despite being 3 yrs old & the high street all have version of now.

I worked in fashion specifically footwear buying for yrs & most of my friends are still in the industry.

However my 1990s fit and flare jeans would stick out like a sore thumb against the current girlfriend jeans.

Girlfriend jeans are not particularly current.

ncgy · 22/05/2021 19:30

My point still stands, lots of comfortable style shoes have been in fashion for ages.

ncgy · 22/05/2021 19:45

Chanel dad sandals, ridiculously comfortable

What happened to S&B?
pinkmagnolias · 22/05/2021 20:09

Girlfriend jeans are not particularly current.

They are still current.

I’m at a loss as to your need to write out your credentials as a footwear buyer. I

Many people on S&B are looking for something relatively on trend that might suit them. They aren’t looking for catwalk fashion.
Chunky sandals look great on tanned, petite feet. Shove them on someone with varicose veins and thick blue calves (like mine!) and they look hideous.

ncgy · 22/05/2021 20:46

They are not particularly current but if you want to think they are that's fine.

I wasn't trying to prove anything with my "credentials" just to give a bit of background as buyers tend to buy what sells & I was replying to your questions.

From the above - leaving Grenson aside, what hiking boots are stylish? And were Crocs ever stylish?

But what credentials do you have to assume the above?

They aren’t looking for catwalk fashion.

Who said they were? Chunky sandals aren't catwalk fashion when every shop sells a version of.

Many people on S&B are looking for something relatively on trend that might suit them.

Who said otherwise? I just pointed out that comfortable footwear has been in fashion for quite a long time. Whether they look ugly on your feet or not is irrelevant.

Blossomtoes · 22/05/2021 20:55

leaving Grenson aside, what hiking boots are stylish?

DMs and all the Grenson look alikes - just about every brand has at least one version.

I agree with you @ncgy, it’s never been easier to buy comfortable shoes that look good. Long may it last. I hope young women getting into fashion now will refuse to tolerate torturous footwear.

ncgy · 22/05/2021 21:01

Thank you & hopefully it will last, I'm a trainer & chunky sandal obsessive!

pinkmagnolias · 22/05/2021 21:10

I hope young women getting into fashion now will refuse to tolerate torturous footwea

I suspect high heels will never leave women’s footwear because too many women feel sexy and more put together wearing them. I haven’t worn heels for a long time but accept many love them. IMO what is important is there isn’t an expectation for women to wear heels for certain occasions - interviews, wedding guests etc. any more than there is an expectation for men to wear heels.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 23/05/2021 12:00

I think the main problem with deeming some items fashionable or stylish is that it largely depends on who is wearing them. Those Chanel dad sandals posted above are absolutely minging imo, but a beautiful model with pretty feet and a great outfit could get away with them. But a chunky, middle aged lady would not look stylish in those. A lot of what is fashionable can be really ugly on real, normal looking people.
Stylish to me is more personal - it's about choosing a look which flatters the individual and knowing how to select the right accessories etc. I'm not good at any of that, so I enjoy the threads from people who are. I hope I might learn something.

As an aside, fitflop get slated as a stylish brand, but I had a pair of the black sparkly toe post flip flops and honestly I do think they looked good. I had a tan and polished toe nails and the fact that my feet were mostly covered on sparkles made them look as pretty as it's possible for feet to look. I think it's true that if you are selective, you can often find nice things even in 'unstylish' brands.
I still want to see the Chanel sandals though, even if I'm shopping at fitflop!