➿ Fantastic Haircare: Making Sense and Science of the Curly Girl Method

[botemp]

Offshoot from the Fantastic Skincare threads to document the trials and tribulations in order to make sense and science of the curly girl method. We don't necessarily follow it to the letter and are even critical of it in places. Nor are we especially knowledgeable at this point but we're learning as we go. Feel free to join in (especially if you have superior knowledge) as we attempt to approach this with an interest in ingredients and try to not buy everything that promises us magical things…

Useful blogs:

Curly Cailín
Science-y Hair Blog

@Pupsiecola nope! I had the original top up and they haven't been touched since

Same view here re Mr Dyrons Bo. Bummer as I'd also like one of their cordless vacuum cleaners. DH especially is anti him.

Yet to read the thread. Been doing this for just over a year now. The main thing I've learned for my low porosity, coarse, wavy hair is that less is more, unless I use gel then take more than you think you need and then double it.

A common problem for wavies is trying to cowash and then layer up lots of different products, often very heavy ones. Heavy products are actually great for my coarse hair as they both soften and help it to hang down rather than stick out horizontal but they need washing off well or else it just gets sticky and poofy and my scalp suffers. For finer hair, they result in limp hair that doesn't hold a wave.

I've not tried Microfiber towels for environmental reasons, too. I use some of ds2's old t-shirts.

Flour sack towels are quite good. I use them for squishing out excess water but also wiping down tiles after cleaning, drying my hands.. everything

Just googled those and got tea howls! I know what you mean, though. I had some many years ago and I think they used to be popular on the continent as that's where I first came across them.

I do use a Terry towel to catch the worst drips, as my hair holds such a lot of water but I blot very carefully.

Tea towels :o

Yep the tea towel kind! Got 6 off eBay for £10 and they're 100% cotton and a really smooth texture. I even use one for drying the cat
He asks for a towel when he comes in from the rain

I have some net hair bands which are great for tying my hair back in the wind, without snapping it. Unfortunately, I got them reduced to 25p, as superdrug were discontinuing them.

I also use Seasalt handybands as headbands.

Oh can I join? I've started again with CGM in the last couple of days. I had done it in the middle of the year last year, but fell away from it. I'll have a read through and pick up some tips. I'm determined this time to see it through.

This was my hair after about a month. It's longer now. My hair grows fast, and there's a lot of root now.

I think my hair curls better when it's had a colour.

Right now I'm getting crap results. I hate air drying and diffusing isn't working for me. So, I'm co-washing it, diffusing and sticking it up on top of my head. Defeats the purpose really?!

I did some further digging Sophie and this explains it well and confirms my thoughts above:

"Some extracts will definitely contain protein or amino acids such as soy. While the processes used may render the proteins inactive due to denaturing, it is hard to know for certain. If a hydrolyzed plant is listed, then for sure protein is present. Hydrolysis is a series of enzymatic reactions used specifically to liberate proteins and make them more bio active. If you are avoiding protein do not be put off by plant extracts as the amount of protein, if any, may be negligible."

From this blog post on extracts as explained by a biochemist. Also mentions how Giovanni has different ingredient lists, confusingly.

So unless it's labeled hydrolyzed it's really a guessing game whether it will be actively present to do anything comparable to hydrolyzed versions as extraction processes can make the protein less active or inactive. If it is present, the amount is negligible. Soy does seem to be available in smaller parts (amino acids- lowest molecular weight) in its extract form but the amount present probably isn't enough to do anything major and would not impact someone trying to avoid 'protein' in hair.

Hello Pick and Miss.

Pick, interesting, I need to start writing things down in an overview but they're definitely is some consensus on how wavies need to adapt the CGM. I tend to be critical of certain aspects of it anyhow and I will never be a cowasher. I'll avoid SLS and SLES but I'm not interested in demonising all sulfates. There are quite a few sulfate replacements that formulators point out are a lot worse for your hair but the product can be labelled as sulfate free and people think it's magic brew created by organic fairies.

I'm on the continent, but maybe not the right spot as we only use those towels to polish crystal and silverware with. Hammam towels were really popular here for a bit. Never heard those mentioned in CGM circles but potentially they could be good, it's cotton but not traditional towel ply and Moroccan women usually have very thick course curly hair and it's lovely and shiny... I'll have a Google.

Miss, your hair looks absolutely lovely too. My hairdresser once explained that if you colour your hair the chemical process makes the hair swell so it looks and feels fuller (and technically is for a period of time) and it also becomes more porous as the swelling causes the cuticles to become more open so if you're normally low porosity (by professional/scientific classification, so undyed and not regularly heat treated -straightening and blow outs, diffusser wouldn't really count-) where you would struggle more with getting products absorbed due to closed cuticles, so their effects would be smaller. While with coloured hair it makes much more of a noticeable difference as the increased porosity allows easier penetration. The flip side is, that the more porous hair is, the more prone it is to damage from other elements gaining easier access as well, sun, heat, harsh chemicals, etc.

Sorry, that got long and I forgot, Pupsie, I've looked at the GA.MA IQ as an alternative but I'm not sure yet. GA.MA make a diffuser that's very popular in for curlies so that gives some confidence and apparently when compared to the Dyson the diffusers look almost identical. It's still pricey but cheaper than a Dyson, but not much, and if you look up videos it has a very different noise, higher. I'd like to see it in real life but it seems to be aimed at professionals so it's not that simple.

Also, I've heard the Shark cordless are better than Dyson. I think Sallie has one over on the skincare thread.

Morning all and welcome to MissOrganised and PickaChew.

Thank you for all that info Bo (it's taking me back to A level chemistry). I guess the conclusion from all this is that the Giovanni leave-in isn't a great protein source. Although...I read the blog post and interestingly it says that aloe includes lots of protein. The Giovanni has aloe juice in it so not sure if that's protein . Either way I forbid myself to buy any more products right now...

I was watching a Manes by Mell clip yesterday and she recommends using protein in 2 of the products in your routine (if your hair is balanced). I suppose it would be best if the protein was on products which actually stay on your hair a bit (like leave-ins - which is why I'm cross about the Giovanni ).

I googled flour sack towels and they looked a bit like the thick hospital bed sheets!! Had never heard of them.

I agree: you have lovely hair MissOrganised.

Yesterday I did a deep condition (with protein) and then followed power domi's upside down product application on soaking wet hair and wet plopped. Wasn't great for me. As I suspected applying upside down and side to side only meant I missed most of the crown and so after the wet plopping the top was already frizzy (never normally get this) and I had to wet it down and reapply products. So I think best for me is to wash upside down (or rather only use the shower water whilst upside down) and then apply products upside down, right way up and side to side. The method also meant my hair clumped too much so the curls look more like product curls than my curls - if that makes sense. Next time I will rake in products a bit more so doesn't clump as much. On the positive side, woke up (pineapple with just a thin, stretched out band from one of the DDs) and my hair is soft and frizz-free. I haven't taken photos as I think I'm getting a wee bit... ahem... obsessed with my hair.

I also want to watch Manes by Mell video clip about using the Denman brush to create curls (but suspecting that won't be for me as Mell's hair is way more curly than mine).

Curly Cailin recommends a Diva professional hairdryer. And I think generally a large diffuser is considered an asset. My hairdryer has a tiny diffuser - about half the size of the ones I see curlies using. Maybe that's why any diffusing takes me ages...

Can anyone explain what a custard is please?

ps micro-blading isn't permanent?!

Also Bo: can you explain how you successfully trimmed the back of your hair? Did you just pull the back bits round to the side? I am considering the idea but not sure a trip to the hairdresser wouldn't be the safer option

Yes, divided by two and pulled forward. With more hair you might need to section top and bottom and then divide in two to either side of the shoulder. I can look up the videos I watched beforehand I think I saved them, if you'd like. You do need a good pair of hairdresser scissors, they're not that much cheaper than a trim...

I am confused about custards too, but they seem to be interchangeable to gels. I've assumed they're heavy and therefore not for me.

Tkmaxx (they're open again here so I could go and see if I'm brave enough) often has the Divas, probably not a bad buy. I have a special Japanese diffuser, it fits on anything (my current hairdryer isn't a model that allows any attachments) but I really only hover diffuse or hammock diffuse so it never comes very close to my hair. I like it a lot but have no idea what a traditional diffuser would offer.

When I was picking my protein products to try I chose things with various protein at certain steps so the lower and medium weights for things used right after washing and then the larger weight for the stylers with the larger film formers and then one stand alone protein treatment (probably the highest concentration) for in between washing and (deep) conditioning. Understanding the molecular weights made it much easier to pick products for which purpose so I'm not that worried about using a LMW in my leave in and then HMW in my gel. Although, obviously will try them individually first, treatment always on its own and then max two protein products.

I like aloe, it's not a protein protein but it's one of those that acts like it and you can definitely overuse it. When I was doing the aloe/coconut oil masks there did come a tipping point and my hair had improved enough that I stopped from that point on.

Hair update after SOTC
I had a really good cast which I don't usually get with boucleme so I'm guessing it was the technique rather than the products. Best wash day I've had in a while

Nice client. Interesting that you don't usually get a strong cast with the Boucleme. That's one of the two gels I have, and the only one I have used so far.

I love your hair missorganised. Appreciate it must be so frustrating to find something that works for us as individuals. I'm a bit cack/heavy handed so this is all quite a change for me.

Currently sat with the Phyto deep moisturising mask and heated cap on. Probably going to try the boucleme gel again. Have a go with the diffuser (seem to be many techniques: I need to read up on those). I have a couple of questions/points:

1. Should cotton tees have zero fabric conditioner? I assume so? I use a very light, non-scented one anyway because anything else brings me out in a rash. But I just realised I probably need to wash them separately without FC. I hope to get the Boucleme towel once it's back in stock and wouldn't wash that with FC. I do miss having something atop my head straight from the shower which keeps hair out of the way long enough to cleanse my face and at least apply vit c.

2. As someone upthread said, it's a like a chemistry lesson! Science doesn't come easily to me, and I struggle to remember the details. I tihnk I need to find some sort of infographics as I'm a visual learner.

3. I was in the shower just now I was day dreaming about designing a bathroom around how I am currently washing my hair. Maybe a mini heated towel rail outside the door but within reach whilst still stood in the shower for tee-shirts shirts and a towel for the body. Current heated towel is on opposite wall and you have to fully get out of the shower to grab anything.

4. Winter showering is going to be joyless. I seem to be standing around dripping wet quite a lot of the time which is fine in this weather, but gone are the days of chucking a heated towel on my head in a flash.

I guess ultimately I hope to get to only washing my hair 2-3 times a week and with no blow drying daily/every other day it's still going to save me time, I think. I ran 5k today and at the moment there is no way I could do that and not wash my hair afterwards. It's fine: I'm lucky to have a flexible job and a garage gym so I can easily schedule my runs around a hair wash day when I've got time to style. I don't mind running in the rain either so that's a good plan going forward.

I spotted these t shirt type towels
https://www.etsy.com/listing/271351435/t-shirt-hair-towel-wrap-teal-hood-curly?gaorder=mostrelevant&gasearchtype=all&gaviewtype=gallery&gasearchquery=t+shirt+towel&ref=srgallery-1-3&organicsearch_click=1&frs=1

I'm a weirdo - I wash my hair in the sink
Long long story but when I had my spinal op, I couldn't bend over at all for 8 weeks (not even to spit toothpaste out) so I found a system where I could keep my body straight and fling myself at the kitchen sink to do it. Anyway the habit stuck 🤷🏽‍♀️
Have always washed hair separately over the bath anyway so it wasn't much of a change. I think if I was using the shower I would do all the washing, put a towel around body then style

I usually wash over the bath as I tend to wash my hair in the afternoon, it's then either dry enough by the time I go to bed or I diffuse the last bit of it usually SOTC in the morning, if I have plans in the evening then I'll diffuse after plopping. If I wash my hair in the shower I have a shower cap to use when conditioning, can then stand straight up and do whatever else you do in the shower.

I know you're not supposed to use fabric conditioner on towels (I don't use it all, think there's a lot of arguments against them but don't ask me what they are, I've never been a user and never been inclined to become one) because it leaves a film on them which makes them less absorbent. By the same token, I suppose that would apply to plopping t-shirts.

I looked up the hammam towels, I found only one blog post, it gave them the green light to curly hair and one person in a comment section elsewhere mentioned they used them for plopping and saying it worked well for them. I have to check the size though with my self adapted tie up method, the normal size ones will be way too big but I found some 50100 and 65120. But. T-shirts work just fine, I'm not sure I need to change that 🙈

Hair looks good Client, yes that method with the the foam at the end makes hair really stiff and crunchy. The foam seems to add some more.

Yes I never use FC with towels Bo and use just a tiny amount with other washes.

We had a water softener fitted when we moved into our house. We live in a very hard water area. It's been playing up lately. The fitter came out just before lockdown. We need to get the boiler checked for leaks, then the softener guy will come back out and rectify. Looking forward to that. Really can't be doing with hard water. The house is only 3 years old so I'm hoping the boiler is fine and that it's easy to rectify the softener issue.

Currently sitting in the garden letting hair air dry after about 15 minutes' diffusing. (Cannot imagine diffusing to dry). Meeting a friend for a walk in half an hour but not going to have time to SOTC before as it won't be dry enough so will go as is. And explain lol. I can see this being an issue for me going forward as I am often pressed for time. Can imagine taking a t-shirt out with me and SOTC in car/at destinations. Or going to have to get up earlier. Again, washing 2-3 times a week only will help.

Client I can see how washing over a sink would work. I did just rinse deep conditioner out over the bath, but the bath is a bit low for me re my back problems.

joining in - pretty thick 3b/c curls. after being curly for well over a decade, I figured out that less is more, expensive products are a marketing hype. I use a cheap Asda shampoo every 3rd/4th wash. Otherwise just conditioner (silicone free - not too bothered about brand either) and I swear by the curl cream from boots (the pink one for 1.99). Other essential tools are the denman brush; as a protein treatment I use rice water once a week and I like to enhance my conditioner with a tea spoon of ground fenugreek. It's a moisturising bombe! I wash my hear head over in the bath tub, never in the shower (goes too frizzy otherwise), always let air-dry and never wrap it in microfibre towels (super frizz guaranteed). My hair has never looked better.

Reasonably happy with results today given this is all so new to me. Might try the firmer gel next time. I didn't plop at all today (). I might try without diffusing next time. Not sure what difference it made other than potentially speeding things up a tiny bit.

I don't want to try new products yet because I think I need to improve my technique. But I do wonder about an oil somewhere down the line.

Don't want to *buy new products. I have two gels and have only used one.

Thanks Bo but I've decided I'm not brave enough/competent enough to cut my own hair. Will try to book an appointment today.

I'm starting to understand proteins a bit better and concluding that my hair can become over moisturised quite easily (which is a step in the right direction in this trial and error experiment).

A friend from US gave me an Aveda Go Curly Style Prep a year or so ago and I quite like it. It has a lot of protein too but I never seem to see Aveda mentioned in curly blogs (other than Manes by Mell). Anyone know why? Checked ingredients and all CG friendly plus it is one of the brands I can actually buy here and so can avoid paying a fortune in delivery and waiting ages for things to arrive.

Lovely curls Client and your hair is starting to get some nice waves Pupsie. Not sure I have any answers to your questions though. I also exercise a lot and find it hard to combine with washing my hair. I had a pixie cut a couple of years ago and that was the best in terms of exercise and washing. So easy. Right now I seem to be showering and washing hair separately - I swap the overhead shower for the hand held one when wash hair upside down in the shower and then get cold so easier just to wash over the bath.

Welcome Vengeancer . It's good to know that you're happy with your hair and with cheaper products. I have tried the Boots curl creme on many occasions and it just doesn't work for my hair - my individual hairs are much finer than yours sound.

I won't be doing any plopping (other than micro plopping) again I think.