➿ Fantastic Haircare: Making Sense and Science of the Curly Girl Method

[botemp]

Offshoot from the Fantastic Skincare threads to document the trials and tribulations in order to make sense and science of the curly girl method. We don't necessarily follow it to the letter and are even critical of it in places. Nor are we especially knowledgeable at this point but we're learning as we go. Feel free to join in (especially if you have superior knowledge) as we attempt to approach this with an interest in ingredients and try to not buy everything that promises us magical things…

Useful blogs:

Curly Cailín
Science-y Hair Blog

Sophie, yes s2c helps coat more liberally but that's not always a good thing, in a too much of a good thing kind of way, which is essentially what over conditioned hair is.

How have I missed this thread until today!

Back later...(supposed to be working, not browsing MN, at this precise moment.)

I don't find you picking Bo. I have fine hair too and I have no idea if this protein/fine hair statement is true or not but I find it convenient as my Hair seems to like protein and this offers me a good explanation! (I suppose you will tell now that this is the exact reason such statements exist in the CGM world )

Ah so the density test re parting your hair refers to scalp you see that isn't the parting? Must google the ponytail test.

I think (stressing the word think) that my hair is:

Fine hair
Medium density
Medium porosity (do colour but don't lighten)

My hairdresser thinks my hair is medium in terms of thickness but I'm not sure. Perhaps will ask derm too next time I'm there.

Anyway to be honest, although this is all fascinating and appreciated, I find the whole thing a bit overwhelming sometimes. There just seems so many unknowns with curly hair (techniques,'products, moisture, protein.....etc etc). Is skincare this complicated?!

Hello and welcome INeedNewShoes

I mean : is it good to squish to condish? Or not? Or does it depend on my hair?? Thoroughly Confused

Welcome INeedNewShoes, I need new shoes too, well want would be more accurate...

Yes, Sophie, CGM is riddled with confirmation bias (my big one is that the CGM is extremely flawed, and I'm satisfyingly patting myself on the back for that all the time ). I do think there's something in fine hair getting in adequate protein through food. Although this is entirely based on my observations that vegans don't necessarily always have crap hair but when they do, it's really crap and it's fine. I thrive on a high protein diet, so, as above, confirmation bias.

Yes the variables are tiring, I sort of went through a few months of just practicing different techniques, I actually found the majority of little use. Then moved onto different products and I'm a bit pooed out from it all now but now I know what ALL the things can and can't do for me. This morning I was pontificating that maybe I should just embrace my inner natural mama that's just waiting to burst out (I read this article yesterday and it got me thinking, my least problematic body parts are my body) and only do rice rinses. Just wash and condition with it and that's it 🙊🙈🙉

Sorry, s2c being good or not will depend on your hair at that time. I'm build up prone so don't find it all that helpful, and because of all that extra surface area in fine hair it isn't that difficult to get it everywhere but for the low porosity aspect it should be helpful but since I tend to avoid the heavy stuff in favour of cationic compounds which bond (by electrostatic charge) without the need of manual encouragement. If I had very dry low porosity hair that needed an oils/butters heavy routine S2C would probably be more helpful.

Sophie re the modified rice water rinse terrifying me, slight exaggeration but it left my hair feeling the most disgusting it has ever felt. Ever.

I feel completely overwhelmed too Sophie, to the point where I've almost needed to take a break from thinking about it and reading about it. The science stuff doesn't suit my brain very well as in it's not my strong suit, and with menopause my short term memory has suffered so I feel pretty screwed and a bit like the poor relation re keeping up with everything. Then I feel foolish for making an error (eg thinking I'd rice water rinse today). It's a vicious circle because it leads me to NOT want to do more research/try to understand better and on and on it goes. Add to that that I have a pretty strong gut feel about so much so tend towards putting blinkers on and just going with what I feel, but that's flawed too.

Perhaps I need some sort of system to organise all this data, but I guess I'm just not motivated enough and prefer what little knowledge and understanding I do have + trial and error.

Anyway, I think my hair is:

Medium hair
High density
Medium (mixed) porosity: semi-permanent, not lightened apart from a few strands of lighter hair around my face from a year ago. Wish I'd not had that done now).

For the first time in about 2 months I rinsed my hair of conditioner in the shower, half upside down but half the right way up. Big mistake I think, but useful experiment/reminder. My cleaner is here and I was a bit time pressured. I kept the temperature warm vs hot, but I can see canopy frizz which I don't usually notice when damp. I didn't enjoy it much. I thought I would really miss having a 'complete' shower including hair washing. I actually prefer to do them separately now.

Anyway, I used Sunday chelating shampoo, and a deep conditioner for 10 minutes with no heat cap, just a shower cap. A very small amount of Blueberry Bliss on the mids to ends, a very small amount of clump cream and a very small amount of Innersense gel which I added water to. No diffusing.

How often do people use Olaplex 3 generally? I feel like I know when I need to clarify, but I don't have a sense for when I should use Olaplex.

Welcome newshoes. Looking forward to your return! It's quite a busy thread but there aren't many of us so be good to have another contributor.

I want new shoes too!!!

Are you a vegan then Bo?

So far I've been ok with squish to condish but sometimes I forget so perhaps it's isn't doing
Much for me? Just combing conditioner through also seems fine for me. *
*
Oh now I remember that you didn't like the effects of the modified rice treatment Pupsie. Also in case it helps You, I have tried to keep things simple. I think I said that for one month I did wash, condition, LIC and theN DC gel. Just the same products each time and observed my hair and it's health. Still deep conditioned/rice every week. Then I did a month of the same products but swapped JC spiralicious for the DC gel (which is almost out now).

I ordered so many new products because the delivery is so high to greece plus they takes ages to get here but I willl be doing the same system largely. Trying one new thing more or less a month and keeping things simple. I find this more manageable for me rather than constant chopping and changing which I was doing at the start. And I don't have to think each time "what products shall I use today?"

Once I find ones I like, will probably stick with them eg I'm very happy with the innersense low poo (would Probably only try something else for price reasons but in fairness the low poo is lasting for ages) and the biolage matrix conditioner.

I am kind of doing Olaplex once a month but also tying it in with when my hair gets coloured and how much sun exposure I've had. I think the bottle says you can do olaplex once a week but not sure I could be bothered with all that.

Thanks for the scientific bit. Bo.I will take time and digest further this evening but as usual,sounds like you have nailed it.

Yes Sophie that's sort of what I've been doing. I have used the same shampoo and conditioner since day 1. I have 3 different LICs but really like the Blueberry Bliss and have used just that for the last couple of weeks. I have a Pantene Mousse I've not tried yet, and I've only tried the Innersense foam once. I do really like the clump cream, and I either use Spiralicious or the Innersense Gel. Laterly the latter. Not used the LA hold gel for ages. Thankfully it's a travel size.

I did read something I liked on the Welsh Curly Girl's IG page (I linked it somewhere). Something trying not to fix things until you have a problem. I can see that, whilst over simplistic, it makes a lot of sense re buying/using multiple products.

Is my hair that crap looking Sophie No, I'm not vegan, I could never be high protein on a vegan diet but I don't eat meat (pescetarian since birth).

I'm still trying to figure out the science so don't take it as gospel, I'm processing as I go and it's definitely more complex than skincare but I'm starting to see the patterns now and how things connect. A lot seems to get simplified, eg it's all about moisture/protein, I found this really confusing at first (got stuck on what was meant by moisture for a start) and my balance is and was probably pretty reasonable, not something that needs constant tinkering with.

I'm finding hydration and elasticity more of interest for me and I'm slowly beginning to understand how it works alongside protein/moisture balance. And the fixes for that are blissfully a lot simpler, pre poo with oil (will try this in a few weeks), silk pillowcases (I finally see a need for them, cotton draws water from your hair, and whenever I wear a silk scarf with damp hair it's pretty much just as damp in the morning), and smoothing shampoo through as opposed to going back and forth aggressively (that's more for frizz but also a bit of hydration).

I'm also going to dig out a vintage wood comb that I bought in Japan from a special anti friction wood because my current comb is plastic which I use to comb out the gel cast from my roots (more volume and my hair isn't that curly at the roots) but that's probably adding static.

I still suspect that there's a niche the same way there was in skincare when dehydrated skin was barely catered to. There's products that claim hydration but it's not really all that humectant rich. So it's rice rinses for me for now, maybe some fresh aloe gel from a leaf if it's really thirsty, please stop me when I go full mother of the earth...

To think, I just wanted some nice styling products and nothing to do with the CGM itself, argh.

Haha, bo, I have just bought some more aloe vera pure gel, as I've been using it on my scalp. Manes by Mell recommended it for a dry scalp, I think because using oil can create dandruff/fungal issues .

I have mostly thick/dense hair, except near my forehead where it's finer.
The actually hairs are fine to medium.
On the water spray test, I have medium porosity.

I thrive on a high protein diet, too. I do eat meat, but prefer fish (I was vegetarian years ago but stopped as I felt less healthy than pescatarian).

SophieLion, I have done the olaplex twice so far, a week apart. The first time for only 10 mins, but I had more time this time around. I'm hoping it will help with breakage in the hairs around my face, which never seem to grow that long. My hair feels stronger, less soft (could be more protein products too).

Well my "problem" Pupsie is that I keep expecting my hair to come out Instagram standard and it doesn't and that is what I'm trying to fix!!

Welsh curly girl is very cool. So down to earth. She posts some hilarious photos and comments.

Oh no Bo, my vegan question came out completely wrong..... it was the way I read your post. Was wondering how you would get so much protein being vegan - lots of beans?! Fresh fish in greece is amazing though - tastes so good.

Quirky- my cousin read (possibly on the olaplex website but not sure) that as long as the hair is damp, olaplex continues to work for up to 45 mins after application. I tend to leave mine on for an hour just to be sure!

Don't worry I didn't read it as such Sophie, serves me right being unkind about vegans. But no idea how many beans you'd need to eat either, there really isn't much protein in plant sources.

Fresh fish in Greece sounds amazing, did briefly contemplate booking to Greece this summer (never been, always mean to but never sure where to go, I don't want to constantly trip over other Dutch tourists as it's a specific type I try to avoid here too, it all seems very specific per area) but somewhat glad we didn't in the end as it's such a gamble.

Now if you want influencer hair you should have said so, you're doing it all wrong thinking it's products, first you need to get a ring light and then a sycophantic audience, and maybe stuff your hair with little boosters. And you need an assistant, at least one. Oh and naturally good hair, I don't think average hair could stand the amount of swapping and changing they do.

I must admit I'm glad the curly girl influencer madness is more in its end phase as the most useful information is out there and I just can't be all that engaged by another new product line.

Saying that, I've been looking into my hydrating niche and remembered a mask waves by Ali uses (all her favourite products tend to be the ones I've liked best too) from curlsmith. It has hyaluronic acid in it and initially I thought it was just gimmicky riding on the skincare hype around it but apparently it's the new buzz ingredient in hair care and it does actually help with hydration, I'm going to order the travel size but not for a bit yet. They also have some interesting prebiotic stuff with fermented rice extract (popular in Korean/Japanese beauty my dehydrated skin loves the stuff so obviously my hair would too?) but unfortunately those products have polyquats. I've also seen the Inkey list have a hyaluronic acid product for hair (and a few others, very intriguing), I'm now questioning if my hair needs vitamin C as the Inkey list seems to think so...

I've just had 6 inches chopped off my hair

I genuinely thought it was a type and it was 6cm how much hair do you have left?

It's probably collarbone length but it's still wet!
When it's first cut I usually can only just tie it up, and it was so long I could do a messy bun with it

Well if you ever want advice re Greece Bo then feel free to PM me and I can try to help. Cases are very low here but there are tourists and they are not always respectful and finding sneaky ways to get in the country when they shouldn't be here (because greece is not allowing entry from Those countries)...

I have no desire to be an influencer. Just want lovely hair!! And saying that, I am getting pretty cross with all these influencers. I remember Bo once said they all contradict each other (which they do) but they also seem to contradict their own selves too .... it's very frustrating Was looking at people with fine hair like mine and taking notes on how they styled and product application and it was just a mess in terms of consistency so I got very cross and gave up.

They all seem to have every product under the sun (yes I'm aware a lot are gifted) and every day seems to be a stellar wash day - except when they put in crap wash days to make themselves come across as more relatable. I don't understand how many of them got sudden curl transformations after 4 weeks..... I feel like I'm
Going backwards at the moment (although realised beach all day and air drying is not a winning combination )

Anyway Have decided I would rather not be looking at IG for a while as it does me no good (I was never on IG and only joined now to follow a few curly girls).

Rant over.

Hope you like your haircut Queen. I can't believe it was so long. Honestly thought it was shoulder
Length or shorter.

I agree fish in Greece sounds delicious! I remember it being particularly good in Portugal too, straight out of the sea and onto the grill. We do have good crab, here, which is local, but not quite the same.

bo, was the prebiotic stuff the ones Manes by Mell was trying. That sounded good. I agree that my hair would not be looking great trying out all those different products so often. My scalp would not tolerate it at all.

I was thinking I usually refresh my curls in the morning with water, LIC and boots curl creme. I've done this for years, it must have been an early CGM recommendation. But then, I'm layering LIC over gel from the wash, which must be sitting on top of the gel, surely. Maybe I need to wash use LIC, gel and finish it with curl creme then it won't need so much refreshing?

Ah yes fresh fish on a grill fueled by the wood from the grapevines just up the hill in the Mediterranean sounds bliss.

I should just own up to being a massive snob. I really like the north of Spain/Basque region and where it curves into France. They have the most amazing prawns that you can only eat there or in 3* Michelin restaurants in Paris (but they mess about with them too much, anything other than cooked a la plancha is an insult to the beautiful produce). It tends to be a mix of really simple and the discreet chic that mingle there. You can be sitting next to a pauper or a millionaire and you just wouldn't know. Food is honest but really high quality and the tourist attractions are basically very special out of the way museums and nature. The glitzy flash and overrun nature of the French Riviera or the Amalfi coast really puts me off (Love Cinque Terra though). Greece seems to have very specific areas that caters to different sorts but I've yet to really figure out where the discreet chic hang out there.

There was a suggested read in my Google feed about some viral curly hair hack, like a fool I clicked, the viral hack was the CGM and the transformation was in two weeks I didn't believe a word of it, it almost feels like people are now taking it for accelerated viral fame. I'll see if I can find it again it was an obscure regional newspaper.

Quirky not sure if it's the same, probably though, as there isn't much prebiotic haircare and it is very interesting for the scalp. I've also discovered Gallinee and I'm really intrigued by their 3 prebiotic hair products, it's all CG friendly and is full of fermented rice water and no polyquats 😍. The shampoo is a cleansing cream (I've had similar from Christophe Robin and really liked that, I suppose it's somewhere between shampoo and cowash) and then there's a scalp and hair mask. The other product is quite unique it's a sort of essence/acid toner mashup. It really is all about scalp health, it interests me more for the prebiotic aspect, not that there's a lot of science behind it at the moment (it's in the promising category) but the prebiotic ingredients themselves are really good hydrating ingredients which I struggle to find elsewhere. It's all very very mild with scalp skin in mind and hydrating so it definitely appeals (also the founder is French ). I emailed them in the hopes they had samples or travel sizes but unfortunately they don't, I'm thinking of trying the acid product as I was planning on buying something similar from Biologique Recherche which is much more expensive.

I did read that refreshing contributes to over conditioning and/or hygral fatigue. I was always too lazy to even consider it but I'm glad I never got started.

Tried my new Innersense shampoo and conditioner today. Quite pleased, shampoo very different from other sulfate free shampoo a, it actually feels really clean but not stripped. It's not fully dry yet (just used BC clump cream and the Innersense ICH gel to keep it simple) so will feed back later.

Found it as it was still in my feed.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/viral-hair-technique-perfecting-natural-18652791

Two bloody weeks, in what world...

Are you talking about San Sebastian Bo? DS1 went there on his exchange trip 3 years ago and we all started a Spain/France roadtrip there the following Summer. It took my breath away. So stunning. I found Northern Mallorca to be the same.

Thick and dense hair, here. I struggle to find things that will hold it back. Found some nice, long hair grips in superdrug so I can finally try to get rid of my fringe. The hair that comes out when I wash it is a mix of everything from baby fine to rather wiry. I don't STC with a bowl but I do have to thoroughly squish shampoo and conditioner in and out or else I miss bits and my scalp can get pretty crusty 🤢

I think the product that I've tried that has been worst for my hair has to be the shea moisture coconut and hibiscus. I persevered with it. The cleanse was OK but I'd always need to clarify, the next wash. The conditioner left my hair rough and matted and feeling like it was going to stretch until it snapped if I caught a knot with my fingers, though. I thought it might be the protein content but I've since tried the superfruit complex and my hair loves that.

So buoyed by my discovery, I'm awaiting a big box of samples from Naturalistic products, including Innersense, Ecoslay and Jessiecurl. I got the thicker innersense gel to try, as I'm on my last tube of aussie Instant Freeze, now.

@botemp

Found it as it was still in my feed.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/viral-hair-technique-perfecting-natural-18652791

Two bloody weeks, in what world...

Wavy: Cleanse once a week, you can use a regular shampoo but condition before and after

Ugh. This is where CGM and I part. 3 times a week, more like and no co-wash nonsense.

Also

Wavy: Do extra scrunching or pin curls

Scrunching once is dangerous enough why would I ever do more? I don't even know what they're on about with pinning curls either, it just seems odd it sounds fun to do once but it's very little to do with managing your own curl pattern.

Thereabouts Pupsie, Bilbao and the coast and Biarritz and the Gascogne area. I wasn't too enamoured with San Sebastian (although food was very memorable) but that may have had to do with it being overrun with walkers for the Santiago de Compostela pilgrimage. I've never been to Mallorca (tend to discriminate against places where the tax evaders seem to congregate in ridiculous highly secured homes). Ibiza is surprisingly beautiful, too, outside of the chartered paths of nightclub madness.

Today's wash results, scrunched it out with the teeniest amount of Innersense ICV foam. It still needs to settle a bit and find its own shape again but probably closest to blogger hair I'll ever get. It's very defined and very shiny where the frizz would miraculously disappear with a ring light but it feels a little detached from my head despite it looking very closely attached. I'd like to trade out a little bit of definition for some more overall body, I'm hoping by morning it'll figure itself out.