➿ Fantastic Haircare: Making Sense and Science of the Curly Girl Method

[botemp]

Offshoot from the Fantastic Skincare threads to document the trials and tribulations in order to make sense and science of the curly girl method. We don't necessarily follow it to the letter and are even critical of it in places. Nor are we especially knowledgeable at this point but we're learning as we go. Feel free to join in (especially if you have superior knowledge) as we attempt to approach this with an interest in ingredients and try to not buy everything that promises us magical things…

Useful blogs:

Curly Cailín
Science-y Hair Blog

Thank you so much Bo and Queen. I think I might skip on the orange marmalade then (it's out of stock anyway) and will definitely get the BC clump cream. I will get the innersense gel rather than the lotion as I do like a bit of a cast to hold my curls. The innersense gel doesn't have protein but I am getting the treluxe LIC and that's quite protein heavy so I'm ok with that.

Your hair looks great Bo. One of the best photos I think you've posted in terms of the curls and definition - they're lovely (but correct me if they've been other nice photos which I don't remember).

I think I've finally figured out my purchases (got rid of the BC hairspray and the protein deep conditioner as unnecessary for me right now) and should order before I change my mind or before the products go out of stock...

Innersense I create hold gel INCI is really confusing, all the CG shops here that tag things with or without protein tag it as containing protein. The INCI seems different from the one in the US site but I think that's down to US regulations. I can't identify anything protein in it but apparently it does contain it 🤷

I think my camera likes my hair best this way, I've definitely had similar or better wash days (where there was a bit more body/volume) but my camera doesn't focus on it well. You can see the bottom half is a lot lighter atm thanks to the sun (really need to figure that UV thing out) and I think it's therefore picking up the definition better now rather than solid mass of dark hair.

I use a tiny dab of oil for scrunching

My understanding Bo was that the innersense gel used to contain protein and now it doesn't. I looked at the INCIs and there definitely wasn't any protein.

Yeah my hair always looks better in real life than on camera. Often try to capture the side where I see some nice curls and annoyingly they look nothing like real life in the photo

Ah yes, I've googled and found this blog post with the old INCI on it with protein in. Her hair reminds me of yours a bit. She has really amazing results if you scroll further down with a Mielle Organics leave in conditioner that I had been looking at as it has a lot of humectants with cationic conditioners and lightweight oils so it should be very nourishing and not weighing anything down while keeping moisture well sealed in. Can't find samples but I'm definitely noting it down for later.

Speaking of samples, I still have an untouched (15ml) jar full of ecoslay orange marmalade that I probably won't use anymore. I can send it to you, if you'd like, I'll cover the postage. I also have some BC gel left but I think you could only try it on a part of your hair (it's about 5ml, I think it goes further than you think but I'm not sure if you could cover your whole head with it) and my fingers have been in there, but happy to send that along too.

Haircut for me on Wednesday (standard wet cut)
I can't do anything with my hair at the minute and it's getting so tangled. Last time it did this it was fine after the cut so hoping that helps! Reckon it needs about 6 inches off

That's so kind of you Bo. Thank you. if you're sure you don't want the gel. I really don't mind paying you the postage. It might be a bit pricey to greece. Shall I PM you an address?

I had a look at that blog and the Mielle (still Makes me think of our washing machine ) LIC. She has lovely hair. The LIC has no protein and so I'm not sure as I tend to veer into over-moisturised quite easily. Saying that, last week I used my Giovanni LIC (protein free) as a one off and got some gorgeous ringlets. Unfortunately I wasn't paying attention to how much product I used and the next day my hair felt very weighed down. I had also co-washed that day for some reason so it could have been that too - or the combination. My hair doesn't seem to like co-wash very much. Must try the Giovanni again but use the correct amount.

6 inches off Queen? I didn't realise your hair was that long! Thought it was shoulder length.

I have realised I'm better off with a more side than just off central parting.

This is from washday last night using the Innersense I Create Volume (full details on skincare thread ).

It's feeling soft and light and is the least tangled it's been.

Just went to check out your post on the other thread Pupsie. I'm not sure if we've already discussed this or not but I've read that over moisturised hair doesn't form a cast easily. I think you mentioned before that you're not always getting a cast?

I think your hair looks lovely in the photo with the side parting. Really nice waves.

Bit confused why you think your headache is from Pineapple - do you have it too tight?

Also: was it the bounce curl Clump cream you used Pupsie? Do you like it?

Sorry just re-read the other thread post Pupsie and isn't innersense I create volume the foam?
In which case, I'm not sure any of the products you used give Much of a cast. You didn't use a gel Did you?

(Sorry for all random capital letters in my posts but I struggle with keyboard on my new(ish) phone as it's bit big. Also always pressing enter by mistake and starting a new line. Bit annoying...)

Yeah PM me Sophie, don't worry it'll fit in a padded envelope so it will only be a couple of Euros that I'm happy to cover. Let me know if you want both or just the ecoslay.

I'm still a bit confused what over moisturised means as 'moisture' is used so interchangeably in CGM circles. Is it too heavy handed with occlusives and a build up from that or humectants, or both? The reason I like the look of the Mielle is because it's very light on occlusives but not on humectants.

Hair looks good Pupsie but I'm lost now too, isn't I create volume the lotion (which I now refer to as the 'light hold gel')?

I commiserate with the phone keyboard, I never really got used to my new one (it keeps randomly changing words when you've already moved on) and since a recent update I have random capitalisation and I'm accidentally typing tits everywhere

I pineapple using a silk scrunchie. I have to pull it through twice so it's as tight as it needs to be, although it doesn't feel too tight when I put it in a pineapple but I do sometimes have a tender head or a headache the next day. I'm better off just laying it above my head on my pillow tbh. I really want a Puff Cuff. The one I bought is too big for my hair, even though it's the second to smallest size. (Although the headache turned into a weird hour of feeling dizzy and very spaced out, so maybe it wasn't pineapple related after all).

Yes Sophie I think I do tend to over moisturised although I'd say it's reasonably well balanced naturally. I'm trying to squish to condish a bit less manically and not overuse LIC. I really want a protein mask but the two I'm after are OOS.

Yes, it's the Bounce Curl Clump Cream and I really, really like it. No plan to try an alternative.

The I Create Volume is definitely a lotion:

innersenseorganicbeauty.co.uk/product/i-create-volume/

It's the one Powerdomi used on one of her IGTV wash days. It did form a bit of a cast on the top layers.

(Sorry if I confused anyone. I really wasn't with it this morning. Not sure what that was all about).

Grrrr how Can I have just written a really long answer and my phone ate it???!!!

Was saying I don't know what I mean scientifically when I say over moisturised. But use it to describe how my
Hair behaves eg puffed out curls, wash days don't last, hard to form cast. Not sure if from
Humectants or occlusives (unlikely as thought these were things like Silicones and mineral oils and don't use products with these in) or simply my Moisture level Ok but my
Protein level too low so end up over moisturised by default.

Sorry for confusion re innersense. Just checked website and the names are so similar:

Gel = I create hold (will Order)

Foam = I crest lift volumising foam (will
Order)

Lotion = I create volume (is this supposed to give a cast Pupsie? And how does it differ from a gel?!)

Thank you Bo. Will
PM you.

• I create lift volumising foam

On Powerdomi's IGTV she has three videos relating to her Innersense wash day Sophie. First the wash and style, then diffusing, then SOTC. She used no gel so that also suggests that yes there is a slight cast.

I actually prefer the styling process using the gel (I really like the gel). I think I did use too much of the lotion: she says she used a third or her normal gel.

I understand re protein balance. My feelings are based on the same theory it not particularly scientific but more a gut feeling.

Thankfully I have now been able to order Hairfinity protein mask (not from them thank goodness and already had the shipping confirmation so fingers crossed I will actually get it this time).

Sophie I get a light cast from the I Create Volume lotion..I like that as it is easy to scrunch out yet gives enough hold for me.

I used the amount Skinful recommended and followed instructions on diluting the I Create Volume lotion (apparently you're supposed to do this with the normal gel too, they have this info in their blog but not on their bottles ) and had a very light cast but since I slept with it in a silk scarf, it was gone by morning, I actually prefer that as scrunching out usually adds some frizz. If you look at the INCIs side by side they're quite similar, I create hold gel has more film formers but they're both gels essentially.

I think protein/moisture is one of those things that starts off rooted in science and then becomes woolly in the curly communities. Hygral fatigue (technical term for too much moisture whereby moisture=water) is when hair swells rapidly and excessively and then deswells (is that a word?) again, back and forth everyone it's exposed to water. This undermines the integrity of the hair structure and weakens the fibre of it and impacts elasticity (loss of curl pattern). As I understand it this is down to porosity (high) as the cuticles aren't functioning as they should (damage) when interacting with water. Hair feels mushy when wet because it takes on too much like a sponge (then rapidly loses it which leaves it dry, brittle, and flat).

In skincare terms it would be comparable to a damaged skin barrier, ie. an aspect that should be balancing and working on its own but needs help. Protein can help because it will come in like a poly filler and patch up where the cuticles are damaged/not functioning properly which restores some of the mechanism of balancing hydration in hair by retaining it and not taking on excess. It only helps so long as you use it.

So it's quite confusing, as in CGM there seems to be the idea that hygral fatigue is solely down to not using enough protein (when protein really is the thing that helps manage it but I take the point that it also helps preventatively), porosity (and hydration but that's a standard point of concern in curly hair that weirdly gets overlooked) seem to be the root of the issue, and what adds to it is excessive use of occlusives (CGM is full of occlusives in the form of natural oils and butters). However, confusingly, what helps (also good for general hydration issues) is using a lightweight oil before shampooing as a prepoo treatment so that the hair doesn't soak up water excessively when washing.

That's hygral fatigue which I suspect doesn't happen as much as when people say they're over moisturised. Anyone who has experienced hygral fatigue says you'll know because it's a rather bizarre feeling. Now if I were to use a lot of occlusive heavy products (pretty much the CGM classic approach of cowashing, deep conditioner, etc) on my low porosity fine hair it would come out limp, dry (as the occlusives means I can neither absorb the heavy oils on my tightly closed cuticles and therefore completely seal it off from any hydration in the form of humectants coming through) yet greasy at the same time with a distinct loss of elasticity/curl pattern (as hair is literally being weighed down by all the occlusives). It's very easy to see how with similar symptoms to hygral fatigue I'd assume I'm over moisturising, which I technically am it's just not the same underlying issue, just product misuse and I suppose down the line that could end up in hygral fatigue as hair is receiving no nourishment. Adding protein would probably help some as they tend to be lighter products but it would add to the dryness created by the occlusive heavy approach so I'd be reaching for those again in the misguided idea I need more moisture to balance out the protein and essentially I'd be stuck on a back and forth approach that would probably see me throwing in the towel quickly. Now I knew to avoid all of that for my hair before starting on this hair journey and it's why CGM 'Classic' never appealed to me, I also suspect this is why a lot struggle in the transition when they've got little to go on beyond a set of very strict rules and a vague idea of their curl pattern.

Sorry that was longer than expected, thanks for coming to my TED talk 😂

I enjoyed the TED talk Bo. I do thibky hair is over moisturised. I don't have all the symptoms, but when I squish to condish it feels very fat and swollen and mushy. I'm actually going to attempt a rice water rinse when I'm back from my run. I'll clarify first. Deep condition after? Then going to try to use minimal.products. maybe LIC on last thirds only and not too much. clump cream and gel.

Any tips for the rise water rinse?

Time, you need to leave it for 24-48 hrs 🤣 I think a large part of the rice rinse success is that it's acidic which cuts through occlusives and therefore can nourish and actually reach past all the stuff coating it. I didn't deep condition last time and noticed no difference to with but I didn't shampoo so it's a poor reference. A rice rinse is conditioning in itself (can be used as a LIC if diluted but I'd be cautious with that) so not sure deep conditioning is necessary but I suppose it depends on how long you leave the rice rinse to marinade on your head. First time I did 30min rice rinse followed by 30min deep conditioning and I simply do not have the will to ever relive very wet head in showercap followed by heated cap. It was just over asking my patience with this all.

I think methods like the bowl method and squish to condish mechanically imitate hygral fatigue as you're forcing more water in than it would otherwise take, if it's feeling mushy with that for it would be an indication for me that your hair doesn't need to be fed extra moisture (where Moisture=water) with the use of these techniques. Leave those techniques for people who struggle to get water in.

I think we're slowly circling to a hallelujah moment of less is more, techniques and products. The long time curlies on here must be snickering behind their screens while saying, I told you so

Sorry, I've just realised I cocked up my TED talk, over conditoned hair (ie. you've gone in ham fisted with occlusive heavy products) feels 'mushy', hygral fatigue feels 'gummy' when wet. Must admit those very unscientific descriptors don't make it any cleare to me 🙈

Anyhow my point stands that the mechanical techniques exasperate/encourage the issue, the issue being over conditioning rather than hygral fatigue in this case (probably). Although the two do reside close to each other and to confuse it even further, hair with hygral fatigue is often over conditoned but they're not the same thing, basically and overmoisturised is a completely useless term.

I'll have a look for power domi's innersense wash routines. Thanks Pupsie. I know the hairfinity mask is classed as protein and named that way but looking at the INCIs, I think other masks have more protein and hairfinity is more of a balanced mask between protein and moisture. Personally I find this very useful.

Thanks for the info re lotion skinful.

Finally placed my order for new products (before I changed my mind again - BC clump cream has gone in and out the basket several times - or before the products get sold out). I ordered:

Innersense gel (I create hold) - will Have a look on website for how to dilute - thanks Bo and skinful.
Innersense foam
BC clump cream
Treluxe gel
Treluxe conditioner

Got two gels as this seems to be the product I get through the quickest and my DC and JC ones will be out soon.

Curly Cailin has been trying out a brand exclusively for the last 4 weeks and was very impressed with it. She hasn't yet announced it (I assume she will do a whole blog post) but suspect it might be treluxe.

Wow Bo, that is a very thorough scientific analysis. Thank you curly Cailin says she has suffered hygral Fatigue at least once. On a very simple level: I've also read several times now that fine hair lacks protein.

Which reminds me: inge curls says to measure density you part your hair and see how much of your scalp shows. But surely if you part your hair, scalp always shows (parting)? Or am i not getting what she means?

Pupsie I do modified rice treatment. I don't add conditioner to that - prefer to do a Protein-free deep condition afterwards. Bit time consuming but works well for me. I found my hair was dry the time I did it without deep conditioning after. I don't shampoo the rice out.

Bugger re rice rinse. Hey ho. I've never diluted the Innersense Gel and I've not seen anyone do it/talk about it but when Powerdomi uses it she does say to spray hair liberally with water.

Thanks Sophie. I'm v conscious of going too much the other way re protein, so I'm hoping the more well balanced products will help. I think the modified rice water rinse terrified me tbh.

I'll do a chelating wash and no squishing today then. I'll report back.

My understanding from the science-y blog was that squishing in conditioner helps the conditioner coat the hair more thoroughly. She had some kind of computer generated image.

Why does modified rice rinse terrify you Pupsie?

"I've also read several times now that fine hair lacks protein."

Not meaning to pick (my fine hair feels personally attacked ) but this is another one of those sweeping statements perpetuated in CGM that's loosely based on science and then just turned into something bizarre. Fine hair isn't special in terms of hair's own protein content. What does differentiate it, is that it has a lot more surface level, that's why it can hold on to far more (and often too much) product and should avoid things that coat too much. All that extra surface area also means we're more susceptible to damage (there's just more of us to love, okay?) and obviously supplemental protein (in the right dosage and right molecular weight) is going to help with that but it doesn't mean we're protein deficient by nature it just means fine hair is naturally vulnerable and protein acts as a protectant and temporary repair agent, provided you can get it to work for you (a lot of fine hair seems to be protein sensitive, I seem to be minorly so, my hair definitely does not love protein indiscriminately and I'd say that's fairly typical for fine hair). That last part is why these statements can be very confusing, if there's this 'common wisdom' that all fine hair needs as much protein as possible and you use that as a guide and just slap on a lot of protein you can come out very disappointed.

I thought I had very low density hair, my dermatologist heavily disagrees with me, it's about medium used to be high when I was younger, had to keep it short-ish otherwise the weight caused headaches. Around my parting it's very thin due to hairloss, a lot less than it was but you can see a lot of my scalp through my hair if you look closely and that's not the parting, especially if there's strong light shining on it. The rest of my hair is indeed a lot denser, I think the ponytail test is somewhat more reliable, there's a range, I'm sure Google will tell you the exact numbers but my guess is you're probably high density.