➿ Fantastic Haircare: Making Sense and Science of the Curly Girl Method

[botemp]

Offshoot from the Fantastic Skincare threads to document the trials and tribulations in order to make sense and science of the curly girl method. We don't necessarily follow it to the letter and are even critical of it in places. Nor are we especially knowledgeable at this point but we're learning as we go. Feel free to join in (especially if you have superior knowledge) as we attempt to approach this with an interest in ingredients and try to not buy everything that promises us magical things…

Useful blogs:

Curly Cailín
Science-y Hair Blog

Yes Sophie I could try that when back upright. I find after plopping for 15-20 minutes the back is often all stuck up and I have to shake it gently and try very gingerly to release it. At that point I could add more gel underneath. It's not just that causing lack of cast though as happens at the sides too

I try not to touch it too much once I've taken it out of the plop. But then again I'm not always happy with it. It's a fine balance between fiddling to get it sitting right and overdoing it?

Am at the orthodontist getting DS2's brace fixed. Only went on a month before lockdown and has broken in 2 places. Am wearing a mask for the first time. Not liking it very much!

Do you just scrunch up Pupsie or do you shift to either side and then scrunch up too? You may just need to use more as you have quite a lot of hair. Maybe Queen can photograph how much she uses and she only has about half your length but just remember the amount she used for conditioner, there's a reason everone wants a cheap gel, they go quickly. Not all gels give a cast though, I quite prefer it when they're not super crispy tbh because when I go from upside down to right side up it can sometimes turn into a weird nest as it's so inflexible.

WRT all the products out there. I don't think I realised how much I lucked out with the first few products I selected. They all worked well for me in some way (and still do) where some of the samples are real duds for me but I felt there was something better out there (still sort of do) which wasn't helped by Devacurl Wavemaker which gave me the trifecta of definition, hold, volume with limited frizz. I'm probably romanticising it now in comparison to the results I now get but it's still in the back of my mind (and I'm still too scared to use Devacurl again). I am, however, hopeful, that I'll find some sort of combination that works well and I can just stick with. The last routine really gave me good hair for days too which was also a bit of a novelty, I brushed it out this morning and my waves remained intact, as they were rather than an elongated version, that's never happened before.

I think there's definitely a danger of looking at all these curly influencers who have good hair to begin with and just got it more consistent and better defined and thinking it's all down to the products when it's only a small part of it.

Speaking of, the commercial aspect of the curly hair influencers continue to me. Today on a community post from a youtuber I occasionally watch (smallish audience, but bit enough to get everything for free) charging $97 for a single 'course' while being an expert in nothing except in experience, higher price tag for a one on one. I'm now curious, what does Curly Cailín charge? I can never imagine feeling okay with charging people for the skincare guidance I've been giving for years, never mind anything close to that price tag.

Pupsie, my hair is way more curly underneath (though not if I have it collar length, weirdly). I think I do sometimes have a cast on underneath layers, but not often and I always add product upside down and comb through to make it even in my thick hair.

I have passed the (offending) Briogeo sample to dd(14) as she has teenage greasy hair. It turned out it was not only too drying but had given me an eczema patch behind my ear

I watched a Manes by Mell video about sulphates and I think it's kind of what I'm already doing. A clarifying or purple shampoo that's not always strictly CGM once a week and a co-wash in between. I have the Jean Paul Myre shampoo arriving soon, so I will see how that compares.

Maybe I'm not using enough product Bo. I don't want to overdo it though. Yes, I do go side to side with the squishing. Good results today. I SOTC using a clean silk pillowcase rather than my hands, and was more gentle. Then picked the roots a bit with an afro comb.

I think I too lucked out with initial products. I do want to get a protein mask but not really anything else on my list.

Two weeks tomorrow I'll be getting it cut and coloured. Yikes! Will be good to see where I go from there.

I'm interested in what CC charges too. She's trying a new product range and is very impressed but won't share the brand name until she's been trying it for 4 weeks. You make a very good point re charging for your advice Bo. It's comparable isn't it.

Im new to being curly. Didnt realise after a lifetime of daily washing and blowdrying straight that im actually a 2a/2b (Ive been airdrying for a couple of months). Anyway, i still have to use dry shampoo on day 2 and then wash every other day. Are greasy roots normal on curly haired people? You all seem to be able to go days between washes

I'd argue it's not even the same Pupsie, the CGM is just an invented method with a lot of anecdotal experiences. I really struggle to see what their added value could be since it's so person based how you can charge for that kind of advice when you have no experience in the field at all.

Sophie, Protein, as I understand it, our hair is largely made up of it (keratin) and it's just damage, mechanical, chemical, UV, etc. responsible. I think that's sort of where the myth comes from the higher porosity the more protein you need to fill in the damage. I think there's such an obsession with protein in the CG world because silicones are verboten and they often function as the same thing, polyfilling in the damage and making it look healthy and shiny again and preventing further famage. Protein that actually penetrates the hair shaft are meant to have added effect but since hair is dead I'm still wondering how I've also heard protein is able to repair broken bonds (like olaplex) but it seemed a bit grabbed out of nowhere and not sure if that's true. I've also seen olaplex described as a protein treatment which it isn't 🤷

Wizzy, sorry no, I've always been a 2-3x a week washer. I've never really used SLS or SLES or silicones so I've never had to adjust to that part. It's not unusual to have an oily scalp with curls though. Are you cowashing? IME and what I've been reading wavies tend to benefit better from lo pooing and clarifying at least once a month.

Wizzywig. Snap! I used to wash and dry my hair most days. When I started this around 6 weeks ago my hair would have felt greasy on day 2/3. Now I wash it every 3 days and it doesn't get greasy at all. I could probably go 4 days, but I usually do some intense exercise every 3 days so wash it then.

Yes I take your point Bo. Also, even if someone is an very well versed in all things CG, 'diagnosing' issues over video doesn't strike me as a good idea plus so much of it's subjective re how our hair feels and behaves?

And cynically, I suspect an expensive one on one consultation will be probably end with a list of expensive recommendations. By design it preys on those that struggle with it all. I'm being especially critical as a lot of people do really deal with successive crap hair days and persisting against better judgement in hope of some sort of magical pay out.

From what I've seen too, the theory can be too complex for some. I saw a woman wondering why her hair was so ridiculously dry since starting, turned out she was using a heavy duty final wash clarifying shampoo as her usual shampoo as that was recommended to her by someone on a forum (as a final wash) and she assumed that was just the shampoo to use.

I've said before (re skincare) that I struggle with the science bit and with retaining what I have read, especially over time. But I do try to strike a healthy balance between doing my own research, reading a variety of sources, critical thinking (that clarifying shampoo advice!), trial and error within reason (helps massively to be a minimalist by nature here) etc, a dose of cynicism. But I also know it's incredibly tempting to just have someone give you the answer. That's not possible though is it!

Very true but it's what the guru economy is based on. Misinformation and confusion everywhere, but look here, this friendly relatable person is going to sort it all out for you. It's the new hope in a jar.

Gosh sorry the briogeo was such a disaster Quirky. Hope your DD will be able to get some good Use out of it though.

No idea how much CC charges for a consultation. You are right Bo but I guess everyone has to try and make their money somewhere. To charge $97 though is crazy money and is definitely preying on us desperate curly girls who have no patience and just want someone to tell us to do abc and then your hair will be sorted (I'm including myself here).

Would be great if there was a hair equivalent of the dermatologist (although I believe there is a trichologist but that is more problems with the hair - I don't think I could go to one to ask about which products I should use and how often to deep condition I suppose a good curly hairdresser would be able to advise on all that stuff though).

Thanks for the explanation re protein Bo. I'm trying to work out what I might be doing that causes my hair to lose protein/get over moisturised.

Hi wizzywig, the only time I ever got oily roots was when I had straightened my hair (which not done for years). I never have oily roots with curly hair.

Is it happening more/quicker now than in winter Sophie? I've been looking at UV protection for hair but not coming up with much as they all seem to contain silicones but I do know the summer sun can really do a number on my hair. Since you're living in such a sunny place it may be a factor, especially if also frequently in the pool/sea. Although if it's very warm you're probably hiding indoors and in the shade more often than not.

I think location is another aspect and that'll be the next thing to figure out for me. Dew points and humidity and all that jazz. Its left me wondering if altitude comes into it too? I remember there was a whole thing about it in skincare circles at some point but it really only was worth looking at if you lived somewhere extreme.

Dermatologists technically are the hair specialists too. Trichology is a specialty but it's not a medical specialist, although some dermatologists are also trichologists. But, yeah they wouldn't be able to tell you anything about what hair products to use. There is some service in the US where you send in some samples (I assume you send a couple of strands) and they analyse it, tell you what your porosity is, density, strength, etc. and what products would likely suit your hair. It all sounded a bit too good to be true tbh.

I've no idea Bo as I only found out about this whole protein moisture balance a couple of
Months ago. I was also wondering about what protection to use for my hair in the summer. Haven't yet put my head in the pool or the sea. We were at the beach at the weekend and I had my hat on - but still my hair is exposed when walking around as I don't always wear a hat.

I've looked a bit at dew points. Greece is always in the middle range so glycerin is apparently ok (if I remember correctly - not been paying attention to dew points as so many other things to think about).

Ha ha at asking my lovely derm about curly hair products I don't think she is a trichologist (nice greek word!) because it's not on her card (other sug-specialities are listed).

Oh, Sophie, don't worry. My scalp is super sensitive, tbh. I've just watched the Manes by Mell about hard water and think this could be a big part of the problem. Dd loves the shampoo, but we're going to try a similar charcoal shampoo for a tenth of the price.

Powerdomi has posted about her sister's hair. Before and afters in stories.

Sophie we are supposed to be going to Greece for a week in August. Never been before. We have a lovely boutique hotel booked with a private beach. Was really looking forward to it. Not sure how many.more holidays we have with the 'kids'. Not sure if we will still be going or not. Could be ace (especially if it's quiet). But could turn to shit pretty quickly too. Have you always lived there?

I think I've mentioned Jack Martin before. He's a colourist in LA and he does amazing transitions to silver hair. Sometimes they take up to 10 hours! The other day there was a discussion in his comments about how much some of these cost. Apparently £4k to £10k

@pupsiecola, how did you go from washing daily to every 2/3 days?

I've fallen behind on this thread but do cringe at the £20 for 6oz conditioners, given how much of the stuff is needed.

I need a new toy, as my hair has grown bored of the cheapo garner banana hair food. Coarse, wavy, low porosity, not sure it likes protein but misbehaving because overdue a cut, now. I also struggle with strong scents but hypermobility puts me off trying jessicurl.

Dizzy I just stopped. On day 3 I tend to wear it in a messy bun as it's just too annoying otherwise. It very badly needs a cut and it's never been cut for wearing it curly. So I think that's why, mainly. But otherwise it doesn't need washing due to greasiness..

I think the parting issue is the difference between a forehead and a fivehead. I'm deffo the latter :o

And Iagree about the cult status of cgm. The game changer for me has been stopping gunking up my coarse, stubborn, hair with silicones, whether I wear it curly or just big. The things it still likes best still seem to require regular sulphates.

Pick, definitely avoid the deep conditioner from jessicurl unless you can get someone else to squeeze it into a jar for you. It's annoyingly thick and difficult to get out of the bottle.

I saw on lookfantastic they do quite a few little sachets of deep conditioner, the two big ones from Shea moisture, black castor and the honey one (the latter I quite like the look of) and a few other brands. The Shea Moisture ones are quite generous at 60ml. I've also heard good things about the Garnier loving blends masks but not sure if those are CGM.

Has anyone used Mielle Organics? They're about the price point of Jessicurl. I like the look of the babassu deep conditioner and came across it while looking for a cationic conditioner. A bit about the 'if it's tingling, it's working!' instructions though...

Never used mielle bo but would be interested to hear what you think if you try it. There was alot of of it in the shop I found a few backs but I was put off by the price point, it was about £20_£40 a product

The deep conditioner is €16-20 here depending on shop, that does seem a price hike. I can't buy it anywhere though as it's a small independent brand from the US. It seems to have a lot of love in the natural hair sphere.

I found this , I stumble on her channel often (I am extremely of her hair) as despite being natural, it's fine and not too dissimilar and tend to like similar products. She mentions you use very little of the product as it's very concentrated and that really does appeal to me, that's always been a bit of a rule of thumb for me but I'm finding it now CGM too.