Instagrammers and Influencers

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New thread to follow on from this one

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/style_and_beauty/3462129-Can-we-chat-about-fashion-Instagrammers-influencers?msgid=84590932

I've noticed several of them are just putting #contains some gifted items

Don't they have to specify?

Yes, Sali Hughes is another influencer I wonder about. Her latest post is of a press trip which is labelled ad but, with all the gifting going on, I am wondering about her Grenson boots which she mentions in reply to a question. The whole murky world just makes everything look tainted. (And I don't know a single "real" person who owns a pair of these boots yet every influencer has a pair. Hmm)

I know Grenson gift boots to some influencers for sure. Not sure about SH esp with all of them wearing the Nanette style, they have turned me completely off that style of boot.

I really hope a few heavy fines are slapped down on them. I feel they have been deliberately misleading and cheating people long enough. Rules are rules and if they can’t keep to them, they need to quit their accounts!

Yes I think the line between journalist and influencer is really thin when people like Sali Hughes and India Knight are concerned. The idea that readers have a relationship with journos that is somehow less personal than with influencers seems questionable when in reality most journalists are de facto social media influencers as well.

That is true PC they do and I bet journos are cashing in now more that they can use their names for this more personal relationship

I still think that the relationship and extra money is on IG personal account rather than on the magazine platform itself

I have thought that this finally must make up for low journo rates

This is such an interesting and eye opening discussion. Thinking about beauty bloggers and influencers in particular, I don't object to them being gifted samples as long as disclosed as they wouldn't, in reality, buy 10 shades of the same lipstick or foundation to swatch and show us, it wouldn't be feasible. But, reading this thread has made me wonder when they pick, say their 5 favourite products of the month, are they genuinely choosing the best products or those that will benefit them in some commercial way. Maybe products by a brand they work with or would like to work with and who offer the best affiliate deals? I expect we will never know.

I'm thinking of the ones that write about fashion in Grazia or the ones that write about the latest interiors trends in Living Etc. I couldn't name a single one. Sali seems to be one of those people with multiple strands of income: Guardian beauty columns, a blog, podcasting, writing books. Influencing looks like just another one of those strands and a strong online presence probably helps the other aspects. She has more of a foot in the influencer camp than a journalism one now imo. More will probably need to do this if the bottom is falling out of the traditional media market.

They will, there’s also quite a few journos who do it after having a baby

Money Supermarket says it writes the reviews first and then looks for an affiliate link to finance the work of producing it. If none is available, they don't change their content, they just don't include an AFF link. How many bloggers can say they follow the same sort of process?

Mother Pukka, Alex Steadman (Frugality), Alison Perry, Laura Fantacci all started out on magazines. I'm sure there are heaps more.

@montanaskies @whotheeff In my mind there is a clear distinction - the magazine is a clear advertising mechanicism whereas influencers trade on their "We're just like you" persona, and instagram wasn't built for advertising, although its certainly developed in that area. Also, there are a number of regulators that oversee press advertising whereas anyone can post any crap on instagram broadly without censor unless there's visible nipples. As @ThreeFourFive says, its about context. MontanaSkies says she doesn't feel deceived, well I fear s/he may be a minority. I certainly feel deceived, I mean one blogger was gifted wrapping paper!

@PCohle Advertising can be possible on Instagram, it just needs to be honest and clear. If I follow Zara, I expect to see their products promoted to me, its not manipulated. If I follow Jane a 40 year old SAHM from Aberdeen, I don't expect her candle burning hobby to be an underhand way of promoting every damn candle brand thats ever ended up in the Homewares section of TK Maxx. If however Jane renames her account to Janes Candles and promotes her homemade range of candles, thats ok (except I'll probably unfollow it as candles aren't my thing). @wouldyoulikeabagwiththat puts it well when she says instagram has blurred some lines, but I'd like to hope that the new rules will make the lines much clearer. I do think like PCohle suggests that there could be more clarity around the use of freebies/sponsored goods in editorials etc, but largely magazines are better than influencers, for instance if you read a celebrity interview, you'll see a list of photographer, makeup artist, makeup used, clothing, etc

I think there should be a window when you click on an affiliate link to say 'Do you wish for comission to be paid to XXXX' or something similar. WhatLauraLoves affiliate links are as shady as hell.

I think editorial content in newspapers and magazines is driven far more by advertising revenue than consumers are led to believe.

Sure, it's probably clear than clothes spreads or gift guides are just big adverts. But things like the good housekeeping stamp of approval on household products or the instyle beauty awards - are the winners chosen on the basis of spending lots of money on ads in the magazine? I suspect they probably are.

Publications may not be trading on a personal relationship with readers like influencers but they are trading off a supposed "trusted expert" status - isn't exploiting that to advertise the same as exploiting the "I'm just a mum like you" aspect influencers do?

I don’t take anything a magazine says to be expert but I’d love to know if it is related to ad spend for an award

Anyone work in a mag?

Oh it’s annelibush that is doing the #gifted in same colour font as backgrounds so it’s hard to see!

She has done it again on stories with a Hermosa London gifted bag. Text in grey but #gifted in white to match the door behind it so not that visible. I think it’s really sad to go to those lengths to hide that something has been given to you for free.

pc I was an early adopter of Instagram (2012) so to me it was never an editorial platform in the same way magazines are. And I still read and love magazines. Now the game has completely changed. I think the difference (for me) between the two platforms is that advertising keeps magazines afloat, and that ad spend in turn pays salaries for decent written and visual content, plus production/distribution cost, whereas on Instagram it gives direct to the poster. Is the influencer “the magazine” in terms of gifts/ads, or is it Instagram?

That's fair enough but I do imagine a lot of influencers would say that advertising keeps their content afloat.

Unlike magazines, influencer's content is totally free to the user and, I at least, have derived genuine benefit/enjoyment from editorial-esque content from influencers. The fact that ad revenue pays their salary directly doesn't seem to be a huge difference to me personally.

But you still prefer transparency PC

I don’t think people care that much if ads occur - some might be put off fair enough but at least they know what they’re looking at

Sorry, I should have said that in my post - I mainly don’t care about ads or paid-for content, pc, and if it gets on my tits, I unfollow. I am ruthless.

I do, however, care that paid-for content is being passed off as organic content and not disclosed. I also don’t personally buy either the “I only work with products I would buy/brands I love”, or “so much time goes into creating content” amongst many of the accounts I follow. All those mattresses in boxes?!

Is there much content on Instagram now that isn't sponsored in some way? I'd love to know where it is because I can't find it.

The majority of accounts I follow are small, around the 1,000 follower mark, and are just ordinary women, not paid influencers. Once the accounts are clearly monetised I tend to lose interest. I follow Wears My Money, Midlife Chic, Tray’s Lounge, and Tigerlilly Quinn, but the rest of the “names” have been pretty much chopped in the last few months.

I post daily but my grid is a total mish-mash of stuff - outfits, cats, doors, makeup - which is why I have never “made it”! (Also lazy, not a pro photographer or content creator!)

I agree about clearly signposted ads - I don't really care and if I do I unfollow.

It's more that since I've become more aware of this I flick through the papers and I really struggle to believe the "editorial" content isn't, by social media standards, an #ad.

Sali Hughes last guardian beauty piece was all about the new Clinique moisturiser. The guardian disclosed affiliate links but did SH pay for the product? Was her coverage influenced by Estée Lauder company advertising with the guardian? I'd like to know stuff like that now.

I wouldn't expect Sali Hughes to pay for the beauty products she reviews for her column but it would be disappointing if the positive coverage was directly related to the ad spend by manufacturer. I take 'awards' and reviews with a pinch of salt now. I have read that a lot of Amazon reviews are fake for example.

No, of course SH didn’t pay for the moisturiser. She/The Guardian will get sent a gazillion moisturisers a week as PR samples. The majority of them will end up in a beauty cupboard sale with the funds raised going to a charity, and never mentioned in print/online. That’s the nature of PR/media. But if Clinique are one of The Guardian’s biggest advertisers, it’s highly unlikely that SH is going to write it’s complete rubbish and risk alienating them. It’s kind of the circle of life with print media - the relationship with advertisers always has a bearing on the editorial coverage. That doesn’t mean it’s right, but ‘‘twas ever thus.

For what it’s worth, I have seen SH say products don’t work previously.

Yeah, I know she didn't pay for it, but as a consumer I haven't actually been told that the way I would if she was an influencer.

The relationship with advertisers is influencing content exactly as it does with influencers.

The fact that it 'twas ever thus isn't really enough justification in my mind for two very similar things being treated so differently by regulators. Why are consumers told to expect transparency in one medium but not in another?

(I feel like I'm berating SH a bit here, she's just the first beauty editor type that came to mind. I don't think she's doing anything wrong by following the rules that apply to her as a journalist)

wouldyoulike I think you're right, we just need to know that their thoughts are independent and not influenced. I think British Beauty Blogger, Caroline Hirons and MidLife Chic are disclosing everything well now so it's clear that products/clothes are press samples or gifts etc and also which are proper paid for ads. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that to be transparent!