🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Happy Snail Year, Bring Spoons!

[botemp]

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7 Thread 8 Thread 9 Thread 10

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. In order to make use of the below form and join in I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

NEWish since previous threads:

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

_

JANUARY 2018: Thread 11! we're getting old. A recap of The Snailies categories for those still meaning to get round to them:

🐌🐌 THE SNAILIES 2017 🐌🐌

The Well Hello There - newest and latest find that gets your motor running

The Flusher- money spent on this product would have been better put to use by flushing it down the toilet

The Jack & Rose- the product you’ll never let go of because there’s plenty of fucking space for the two of you on that piece of wood. Damn you, James Cameron, for breaking my poor little tween heart.

The LTB- it all seemed so promising, everything was going so great, then they turned out to be a narcissist gaslighting bastard

The Child Prodigy- that one product that’s annoyingly good and isn’t afraid to be smug about it

The Worker Bee- never the centre of attention but has been steadily chugging along like no other

The Troll- the one where you repeatedly asked, ‘Is this doing anything?’, but continued to use it anyway…

The Flabbergaster- that one product or technique that wasn’t really supposed to be used like that or delivered well beyond your non-existent expectations

The Sinner- oh, admit it because we’re all guilty of it, what did you do or use that wasn’t all that sensible like take an acid bath and had the disastrous results you really knew to expect

Sophie and Elspeth if you scoot up to the first post on this thread there are some links from Bo. The "anti-aging routines" link has some really helpful information. If you go to the end of that file there are a tables on suggestion of what to use when. Have a look!

Elspeth, acid use is very individual (age/skin type/etc/ plus what other actives you're using) but I'd say someone who feels they have to use it daily or twice daily to produce some sort of semblance of balance is probably more likely to see benefit with a dermatologist than continuing on that path as their skin would be really challenging.

Sophie, if you're getting long persisting red spots (Post Inflammatory Hyperpigmentation) which stick around and are usually more annoying than the spots themselves you probably have a genetic predisposition to PIH. Quite common in Asians and POC, but not exclusively. If that's the case glycolic acid is not your friend (which is in all your acid products at various concentrations) as it can make those with the predisposition more prone to PIH.

The products of most importance for PIH tend to be Vitamin C in L-AA form in a high concentration, (15% and above, depending on vehicle). The other important product to consider is your choice of SPF, it needs to be one with a very high UVA rating (as these wavelengths influence pigmentation the most), not so much the star ratings, you really need to know the PPD rating.

Acids are not going to stop spots, at best they manage the inconvenience and make them less inconvenient. They do nothing for fine lines and definitely should not be used around the eyes, and extra care should be taken around more delicate areas like the mouth.

The TO retinoids are a next gen ingredient, some prove to be the next best thing, some don't. It's a gamble up until that point, I don't have any signs of ageing yet, rarely get a spot and use it purely preventatively, so I can easily gamble, it really depends where you're at. I can only assess what TO does as a Retinoid on its other promises as the absence of ageing really isn't much proof at this point. I used the 2% emulsion and the 5% granactive in squalane in isolation and consistently for at least 6 months each and they just weren't performing (something CH will never have been able to do as she tests far too many products). Someone else may have the opposite experience, but that's the main issue with cosmetic retinoids, they need to make an extra step that requires certain conditions on your skin to become active, there's just no guarantee in them and no obligations to the manufacturer to deliver on their promises. TO is indeed very affordable and I wanted them to be great, but what I and many on this thread found is that the economising on the formulation and the speed at which they push everything often makes it falter in the long term.

With your concerns in mind I'd be hinging your routine on a good retinoid product as that tackles both the maintenance cycle of the spots, restores dullness and helps with pigmentation. A higher % L-AA Vit C product would also be something to look at.

thanks Pupsie. I had a look this morning at this and just had another look. It's very useful.

botemp - I wouldn't say I have PIH. It's just I have have very white, porcelain and generally smooth skin so any spot or blemish stands out a mile!!

I currently have a 10% vit C product and still some ampules left so will finish those before I move on. I use Avene SPF which I think is a good product for both UVA and UVB.

Noted your comments on the TO and your experience. Do you use another retinol product now? Is there a particular one that people seem to use and works? I have read the thread but, as I said, its hard to go through and follow 700+ messages! thank you

Yong id say I wait around 10 mins before applying my base after my morning routine.

Hi Sophie 👋** I knew you'd get good advice here.

Botemp I've copied and pasted your analogy of the bank balance/acids to the Ordinary/Deciem FB group. I hope you don't mind - it's just such a great way of explaining it. Happy to take down if you prefer.

Pupsie Sorry, missed your post earlier. I agree about having more experiences. I've got quite a shock adding up all the bits and pieces I buy. We could have little weekends away for the money instead! And I want to do a few things to the house this year. It's a good idea. We'll see how dedicated I'll be but definitely cutting way back.

Elspeth I am using the cicabio spf50, I think Bo might be using it too. I really like it, it's a sort of gel consistency, is aimed at sensitive skin and has some healing/soothing properties too. It works fine under makeup as well. My only concern is it might be a bit too heavy for me in summer as I have oily skin, probably more combo in winter but definitely oily in summer

Bo I did think Botox round the eyes wasn't done here, seems like everything/anything goes with it in the US. My friends are from an online book club (but we end up chatting about all kinds) so I've never seen them IRL to know what all this botoxing is doing for them. Think I've mentioned before I have a couple of RL friends who have overdone the Botox (and possibly fillers) and look very plasticky now so I definitely don't want to go down their path!

Miffy I've had Caci and carita, neither did anything for me but I only tried them as a one off as the salon used some creams as part of the treatment (not sure if they all do that) that gave me spots.

I'm eyeing up that Dennis Gross eyecream now as I'm in the market for one yet again. And yet again I wish they did samples as it's a fairly hefty price tag, and I also need to cut back on my spending.

sophie I hope some of what we’ve said has helped and not caused more confusion. This article might be of interest about retinoids. It features Dr Sam Bunting, who I recommended earlier you check out her YouTube channel when you get chance. Honestly you’ll be better off finding a good retinoid and just using an acid toner once or twice a week at most. The retinoid -long term -is an investment in your skin, along with a good SPF.

www.getthegloss.com/article/retinol-retinoids-the-skin-experts-guide

Sophie, I believe there's a list of retinoids on this thread somewhere. If there's not, I'll recall it from memory, I do have a new one to add though. Newish company (to me anyhow) referral via Skincare addiction UK Reddit, they also have a Vit C of interest, will look it up and post links in the morning.

Bagel, that's fine, go and spread forth the evangelism of a restrained skin care approach

User, did I link the wrong one? It should be the eye serum not the cream, apparently the cream isn't as good. You can try contacting cult beauty for samples, I got some of the alpha beta peels from DDG from them with an order once. Or check eBay for samples?

And yes, also using the Bioderma Cicabio SPF50 and still quite happy with it.

Sorry it was the serum Bo I might see if I can get a sample as a lot of eye treatment products make my eyes sting so if I message them and say I'm worried about irritation/reaction I might get lucky. I'll try eBay too as I got my REN primer samples from there.

Gel sounds good, the LRP one is a white chalky one which leaves a white cast and isn't the easiest to rub in. It is moisturising and no problem under makeup, I just don't enjoy applying it. I'll use it up though, then I'll try the Cicabio.

I'll be over here crying in the corner and thankful for concealer
BASTARD skin. I'm back on acnecide and mortified, don't want people to see my face in RL

Doesn't look as bad as you think it does Olli Hope it clears up soon for you though. I know that feeling.

Hello Bagel and all you other lovely ladies who are taking the time and trouble to help me out on here

JDSTER - no you guys are not confusing me. I think it's just the wealth of information and products that are out there that is confusing me! I will try to have look at the link you sent about retinols. Thank you. I did read a Telegraph article linked in Thread 1 which said that retinoids were stronger that retinol which is the opposite of what I understood....

botemp - I'll have a scroll through this thread for the list of retinoids but if it's handy for you to post your list then I would appreciate it. I also re-read your info sheet on barrier protection and it makes a lot more sense to me now.

Ollivander - I hope your spots clear up soon. I was very naughty and picked a spot on my cheek and now it looks like Mount Everest there . Why, oh why, did I pick??!

So, I have decided to focus on hydrating my skin first and will use the following routine:

AM
Cleanse with LRP Tolerance
Vitamin C (10% Castalia) 3x/week
Hyaluronic serum LRP (thanks Bagel - I like this product)
Eye cream (Eubos hyaluronic) and moisturiser (I have a Cetaphil one for acne-prone skin and a water-based Uriage one which I like a lot)
SPF 50 Avene (with top-ups during day before I go outside)

PM
Double cleanse (dermalogica pre-cleanse and then LRP Tolerance)
Acid tone 1x/week (or would 2x be ok? Or no acid toning at all?)
Vit C Castalia 3x/week
Hyaluronic serum LRP
Eye cream and moisturiser Castalia

What do you think?

A bit cross as I had a new bottle of Pixi Glow and opened it on Monday and it says it has a shelf life of 12 months. Wish I hadn't opened it! Also got the First Aid Beauty Pads and the Liquid Gold open. Throwing my money away....

I also have a toner (or is spritz the proper term) for Dermalogica called Ultra-calming Mist. When should I use this? Or not use at all?

Now the most confusing part for me: retinoid/ol. As mentioned, I have TO 2% retinoid in squalene which I used once on Monday. My options:

1. Do I carry on using this TO twice a week? If so, would I use it on days I don't do vit C?

1. Not use any retinol/oid at all for now?

1. Abandon TO one I have and use something which seems to work for more people/get results?

Some other info in case it's relevant:

• Am flying again on Saturday so will take some hydrating masks with me (Castalia and Dermalogica)

• I live in a Mediterranean country so inevitably a lot more sun exposure than in UK.

• I exercise, drink lots of water, good diet (and no wheat or diary), don't smoke and don't drink much caffeine.

Big thank you to you all

I had no idea LRP do a Hyaluronic Acid! I might have to try it. I haven't found one I like yet, but I do feel I need one. I got a little Drunk Elephant sampe with my Vit C and I enjoyed using it but it's run out now (and it's £££). That LRP isn't cheap but cheapER and easier to get hold of for now.

Also, re all the talk about water, we have a water softener. It was pricey, but it makes such a difference to my skin. When we moved into our last house, and this house, we didn't have one for a month or so. Never had one before either but we live near the New Forest; very hard water area.

Boots online have a 3 for 2 on the LRP and I'm almost out of Toleriane.

Hmmm. Just reading reviews of the LRP serum on the Boots website. (Since working for a company who sell products (not beauty) on their own website I am now aware that companies get to pick and choose which reviews they post. I am so naive). Pretty much all of the reviews state [This review was collected as part of a promotion.]. I don't like this at all. Amazon have stopped people doing this now and will remove any reviews they feel are dodgy. I don't like that Boots are still allowing it.

It's a decent serum though, I used a bottle of it this year. I found it absolutely interchangeable from the Vichy Aqualia tbh.

I'm on the Vichy 89 now and it's the same price with less ingredients and similar quenching effect and is really easy to use. Like water.

Thanks Elspeth. I am probably going to give it a try. I'm just trying to decide which 3rd product to buy to get the free one.

Finally chosen a base...went for two yellow tones from TO to mix...reordered their moisturiser too as I was out and went for my first RP of buffet too..
Also finally went for Egyptian magic cream...I have a million uses for something like this...bo you recommended it ages ago thanks...it has arrived and I already like it on my winter dermatitis...so few ingredients, am hoping for good things...also got a few tata Harper samples which then bumped me up to to a free 5-sample selection- 2x odacite BU+L serum thing, Lavera night and eye creams, a PAI hand cream and a superfood powder thing.
Will look forward to getting stuck in.
Oh and I also found two maybelline lipsticks I actually liked (I find a lip I like about every 10 years)..caramel-y barely there shades in a kind of my-lip-but-better stylee.
I've also just had Tui Na (Chinese medical massage) so looking forward to some improvements to my back (bulging disc) and digestion (consequence of back being out) and therefore possibly my skin.
Contemplating facial acupuncture too.
Yes, I have been in dire need of an overhaul so it's currently happening...
Hair next....
Oh and counting steps as overweight but back not playing along for my usual workout....

Elspeth and Pupsie - I've never used the Vichy one so can't compare but the LRP hyaluronic serum feels nice on my skin. Pupsie - I saw that someone recommended the LRP thermal water spray for dryness further up the thread (if that helps you at all!). There's also the Cicaplast cream for scarring/red marks.

JDSTER - just read the article. Interesting. So Bunting recommends the following retinols:

1. Avene TriAcneal Expert (retinaldehyde - but saw discussion above about possible irritation to sensitive skin)
2. LRP Redermic R UV SPF30 (0.3% retinol)
3. Medik8 Retinol 3TR (serum)
4. Peter Thomas Roth Retinol Fusion PM Treatment Serum (1.5% retinol)
5. Murad Retinol Youth Renewal Serum

I saw botemp had a list further up saying the ones that come out top were:

1. Skinceuticals 0.3%
2. Paula's Choice retinol (purple container. 1%?)
3. LRP redermic (perhaps not as good as the two above).

I have no idea what do to!!!!!! If anyone can help with the retinol and the questions in my earlier post then I would be soooo grateful

Thanks Sophie. Yes, I've used the Serozonic before (have been here since day 1 lol). I don't think I need it, because of the water softener. Yep, always have at least one tube of Cicaplast lying around. A pharmacist in Avignon even recommended 2 years ago when DS1 had a prickly heat type rash on his foot!

Paula's Choice do a travel size of the retinol which may be worth a try?

Has anyone tried the redken extreme shampoo and conditioner?

I habitually use the Extreme anti-snap (it's amazing) but have never tried the regular shampoo and conditioner. They get good reviews though.

One thing: never buy Redken full price, it's always on sale somewhere online.

I tried the shampoo Mint. Found it a bit drying. I think it has protein in it and I'm not sure my hair needed it. It wasn't terrible, I'll use it up eventually, but not worth the ££ for me personally.

There's 25% off Redken on Feel Unique at the moment.