🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Happy Snail Year, Bring Spoons!

[botemp]

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7 Thread 8 Thread 9 Thread 10

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. In order to make use of the below form and join in I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

NEWish since previous threads:

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

_

JANUARY 2018: Thread 11! we're getting old. A recap of The Snailies categories for those still meaning to get round to them:

🐌🐌 THE SNAILIES 2017 🐌🐌

The Well Hello There - newest and latest find that gets your motor running

The Flusher- money spent on this product would have been better put to use by flushing it down the toilet

The Jack & Rose- the product you’ll never let go of because there’s plenty of fucking space for the two of you on that piece of wood. Damn you, James Cameron, for breaking my poor little tween heart.

The LTB- it all seemed so promising, everything was going so great, then they turned out to be a narcissist gaslighting bastard

The Child Prodigy- that one product that’s annoyingly good and isn’t afraid to be smug about it

The Worker Bee- never the centre of attention but has been steadily chugging along like no other

The Troll- the one where you repeatedly asked, ‘Is this doing anything?’, but continued to use it anyway…

The Flabbergaster- that one product or technique that wasn’t really supposed to be used like that or delivered well beyond your non-existent expectations

The Sinner- oh, admit it because we’re all guilty of it, what did you do or use that wasn’t all that sensible like take an acid bath and had the disastrous results you really knew to expect

Thanks for replies Tsmummy and bananna. *
olli pictures look good-thanks for sharing

I'm confusing tear ducts with tear troughs but don't think I need either of them filling anyway, and my forehead is remarkably wrinkle/line free, I don't have 11s or even a 1, thank you oily skin, it's got to be good for something In fact the only place I have lines is round my eyes, the rest of it is more sag and droop

I've been dipping in and out of this thread and just wanted to say thank you for all the useful advice! I've switched from Liz Earle to LRP now and love it and have also been using Paula's choice 2% bha which has done wonders for my chin! Just after opinions on this by medik8...
www.skinfantastic.co.uk/medik8-r-retinoate-youth-activating-cream.html
I'm unlikely to spend £135 but just wondering whether to believe the hype or if it's nonsense!

Who was it doing a frugal year? Because I think I might join you. I just posted on the 'how much is your daily make up' thread and feel a bit sick at how much I spend on stuff. So I'm vowing to use up what I have and rein in the spending.

Think it's easy to overspend on beauty stuff because the coat of each item is usually not that bad. But it really adds up!

*cost

Hello everyone,

I was on another thread and Bagel suggested I come over here. I've been reading through this thread and I'll try to work my way through the previous ones.

My skin is generally in good condition, can be dehydrated around the eyes (and some fine lines when smile when dehydrated) and some fine lines on forehead but also recently been getting spots so been keeping a diary to try to figure out why. I think putting something with paraffin in causes me to break out. I'm checking ingredients!

I haven't ventured into Botox or fillers (yet ). I have done some facials where the plasma from my blood is put into my face. I think they make a difference.

I'm currently double cleansing with Dermalogica pre cleanse oil and a LRP cleanser (tolerance one). I use First Aid Beauty pass or pixi glow acid toner. And Avene cleanance SPF 50.

I try to use Castalia vit C 10% three times a week. It comes in ampules so good as the vit C doesn't de-generate. Also use Liquid Gold (but not on the same days at Vit C).

I also spray on Dermalogica hydrating spray when I feel I need it. And have some Dermalogica and Castalia masks for certain needs (like hydration after flying).

I just tried a retinol/oid product for the first time yesterday! The Ordinary 2% granactive retinoid in squalane. Was planning to use again on Thursday. Am gutted though as I see it hasn't got very good reviews on this thread

So hard to know what products to use as there are sooooooo many! I was under the impression that a retinol/oid serum works better than a cream but I believe the Skinceuticals one (which people here seem to like) is a cream.

I'm looking for a good hydrating serum. Bagel had recommended a LRP one on the other thread.

I'm also dairy and wheat free. Dairy I have an allergy which affects my immune system and the wheat is by choice.

I also use eye creams with hyaluronic acid from Eubos and Castalia.

JDSTER I've never been to see a derm, it's just not something I want to do. I'm unsure whether it could be linked to my medical conditions and/or my medications 🤔. I'm just fed up that even when I'm using the right products for my skin and my barrier is definitely improving that I'm still having issues. Also why is it that all of my friends use bloody nothing or very little and don't have any issues at all?! 🙄. I'm now doing my bha every 4th night instead of every 3rd, my skin doesn't seem to have a problem with this which I'm surprised and very pleased about, maybe once I've been using for a while these issues will improve, I think my skin is just so up in the air and doesn't know if it's oily/combo/dehydrated/dry etc as I've just bombarded it with so many different things over the years and I have lots of filaments/congestion and I just feel that the surface needs a good 'sanding' 😂

User I have tried primers which I think did help but because they were all high in silicone I had to stop due to tiny whiteheads. I've seen the REN one mentioned but really don't think I can justify the cost 🤔. I'm happy that my skincare has now all switched to more affordable options and easy to get.

mint how soon after you apply your last skincare layer do you then apply your base? Straightaway? Or do you leave it a while? I find the longer I can leave the last layer to settle, the more even my base. Just wonder if this is a factor. And conversely, if I'm not applying base for a few hours after am skincare, I then need something like a light reapplication of moisturiser on, 10 mins beforehand or the base 'grabs' skin patchily. I also like bioderma hydrabio for this.
I don't get on with silicone primers either.

mint sorry I just posed more questions to you really. I would think that your medications may have something to do with your skin but it’s not an area that’s ever discussed really (which is why I wondered about a derm who at least might have an understanding of the issues from a more holistic approach). As you say, give your skin a bit of time with the tweaks to your routine to see if that helps.

oohloola it is very expensive isn’t it. All I’d say is Medik 8 is a good brand, often recommended by dermatologists so if you’re getting a non prescription one, medik 8 probably a good one to go for.

Welcome sophie. At first glance it looks like you’re using a lot of acids with the pixi glow and liquid gold which will be contributing to dryness and dehydration. Add a retinoid into the mix and your skin won’t be happy! It’s not unreasonable to start using TO as an entry level retinoid. Trial and error I suppose. I’m not aware that people on here are using skinceuticals retinoid?

Hello JDSTER,
I'm using Liquid Gold a couple of times a week at most. I chose Pixi Glow and First Aid Beauty Pads for my acid toners as I researched and they seemed to be the lightest ones and could be used everyday. I only started using Pixi very recently though. Are they not light acids toners? Should I use them less often?

My skin has always been verging on dry/dehydrated (before any acid use) but it feels much softer with the acid toners. I have a very fine balance between dry and oily and if i go out of this very small optimum range for my skin then I get spots (and I'm a terrible picker - but since 1 January am much improved!).

With the TO retinoid, how long does one wait to see results? I haven't had any reaction to it and will try it again on Thursday.

Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick with the Skinceuticals. I saw it referenced a few times on this thread but I was trying to read and digest 700+ posts this morning! And also looked through all the info sheets at the start of thread.

To clarify: with the TO retinoid, not expecting immediate results but do I do it for weeks or months before deciding it helps/doesn't help me?

sophie I would say acid toners only a couple of times a week at most if you’re verging on dry/dehydrated. Liquid gold contains alcohol so is very drying. You definitely don’t need 3 different ones. Obviously the companies themselves say suitable for daily use- they want you to use their product. I’m oily and only use an acid 3 times a week which I’ll reduce down to twice a week as I up my retinoid use. What do you want to achieve with acid use?
So for example, I use a BHA because I’m oily and have SFs and visible pores I want to target but in actual fact I’ll be better increasing my retinoid use because that’s what will target my concerns more effectively (this is the conclusion it has taken me some time to get to).

Retinoids are for the long haul. Major changes will take months, even years. There’s a YouTuber who has posted 5 year post Retin A use, for example- that’s commitment to the cause, in it for the long haul. You might expect to see some change after about two skin cycles, so a couple of months. Personally I didn’t notice any difference with TO retinoid. It’s tricky really because cosmetic retinoids (and cosmetics generally) don’t have any solid scientific evidence behind them. By that I mean, there’s good evidence for prescription grade retinoid but the ones made by, for example TO, don’t have to ‘prove’ they work. The more research I’ve done myself the more cynical I’ve become about claims for cosmetics. I’ve been sucked in for years, nay decades!! I digress.

Keep reading through the threads, I’ve learnt loads. Do your own research (Dr Sam Bunting, Dr Dray on YouTube both dermatologists are good for informing yourself)

Skinceuticals tends to be mentioned on here in terms of their Vit C, E and ferulic acid complex.

Quick update. I was in London over the weekend and got my BR P50 in Liberty. Delighted to get it as SkinCity don't seem to ship it to Ireland any more :( I had a quick chat with the girl in Liberty London. Sidenote: what a gorgeous store. I only wish I had longer to browse there, it is so pretty and full of lovely things :D

I am another who has thought of Botox for ages and getting more tempted now. I wonder if I would dare to ask my dentist if he does it (he is the most amazing dentist and I would trust him 100%). DH would have a fit as he puts all cosmetic procedures in the same basket so he would equate it to me getting a facelift!

Has anyone had CACI facials before? I know bo suggested them to me as an alternative to the Juliette Armand series of facials that I was considering last year. As I age (and as I am happy enough with my daily skincare routine) I am getting more concerned with sagginess of jaw, eyes and cheeks. I don't know whether I would be better off with CACI or botox for these concerns.

miffy did they give you directions for use with P50? I know you’ve used before. Just interested in what they said. I’ve had CACI before. Didn’t notice a huge difference to be honest. I think if you had them weekly for 6 weeks or whatever you would notice some lifting but that would be quite an expense. I’m having carita facials which uses some lifting type gizmo. It’s effects are temporary but I wasn’t expecting miracles. I mean to do facial exercises regularly but haven’t got round to finding a quick and easy routine

Enid it is I doing the frugal year. I am loving it. Although month 2 and DH has needed 4 new tyres on his car. This has messed up my savings this month. But I am almost making it a competition, seeing how much money I can save. I'm a minimalist by nature, and at this point adventure and travel is more important to us than more stuff. So it kind of fits. We have a few basic rules; eat out and cinema only once per month for example.

I'm yearning for a road trip though; Canada or somewhere epic.

banana, Serozinc is in LRP Thermal Water, IIRC, but whenever I discuss the use of thermal waters (and the way Dr. Dennis Gross was talking about them), is to use them as a rinse, post-cleansing, so you spray and then tissue or towel it off to mitigate the harsh effect of ordinary tap water and remove residue (which can be really detrimental in hard water areas). I always credited it as one of the biggest game changers in my routine but acknowledged that thermal waters are generally considered to be a bit of nonsense and it was just something I learned about from a Parisian who provided no scientific backing to it beyond, 'it's good against the 'arsh chemicals.'

Serozinc is generally good for acne prone skin as it's soothing but most of the zinc and acne research is about supplementation internally so the science on topical (nonprescription) formulas is a bit iffy.

Pupsie, I thought you were trying a Neostrata Retinol, or has my memory gone to pots?

user, I'm not in the UK, or the US for that matter, but Botox isn't used around the eye area by any serious practitioner here as it's a muscle relaxant, the eye area has a very specific architecture so it's not recommended in that regard. In reply to miffy, the same would apply here, if sagging is the issue then a muscle relaxant is hardly going to help I would wager. I've never had a CACI facial but I recently discovered they're not as expensive as I had thought so I may give it a go at some point.

oohloolala, the Medik8 R-Retinoate is on my next to try list. I started off my retinol journey with a different Retinol Retinoate product (Verso, still love and adore the eye serum) but I didn't really appreciate how well it worked for me until I started long trials with TO Retinols. The Medik8 is supposed to be a bit 'strong' so it sounds a good next step for me as I already know RR works well for me. It's only now that the research around the ingredient is backing that up, Dr. Sam Bunting is very positive about it too and she rarely recommends something that pricey off the cuff. I'm just waiting to finish up my current night cream as it's not a serum and I do want to see how effective it is for the first month as they promise noticeable changes in that time period which isn't the typical lead up for a Retinol product.

Welcome, sophie, as JDSTER already pointed out, you're definitely in the too much acid use category. You have to consider acid use a bit like a bank balance, they erode a certain amount (ie. you're going into debit) each time you use them, people tend to get addicted to those instant results and want more, so they use it more, the bank balance (your skin barrier) doesn't really support that kind of abuse so it becomes harder and harder to stay in the positive. Throwing more acids (and/or other strong actives) at it is like taking out credit cards to settle the debts on your checking account. It temporarily brings back that addictive smooth sweet spot but you're progressively going into more debt to maintain that (compromising your skin barrier and making it more susceptible to damage).

If I broadly look at your routine it's a bit like a leaky boat, it's not sinking but you're adding in more and more product to stop-gap the small leaks and then you're faced with the next one. Generally on these threads I advocate hinging your routine on one active that's most pertinent to your needs and then building it out if necessary, eg. someone with oily acne prone skin will be looking for the most suitable retinol product (most likely with a 'proper' one with a lengthy track record, not a next-gen toss up like TO offerings), supplementing it with soothing products and only then will consider anti-ageing issues whereas dull/dehydrated skin will be primarily exploring a completely different set of ingredients as first priority. Exfoliation and exfoliating acids tend to be low on the totem pole in terms of priority for most, rarely the active to hinge your entire routine on.

As an aside, your skin doesn't sound dry to me at all but combo that's severely dehydrated (and possibly a compromised barrier) either due to product abuse or general ageing or a combination thereof, unless there's also rosacea at play the details you've provided don't fall into the description of typical dry skin.

JDSTER, getting back to your crepey eyelids that left me without any product/procedure recs before, I watched SH's second part yesterday and Dr. Dennis Gross mentioned having developed a product specifically for that and it's the only one around that is approved to be used on the eyelid. It's pricey, of course, reviews seem to be very good though and it really is the only thing I've ever heard of that can be safely used on the eyelids and stimulates collagen as it's Retinol based. www.cultbeauty.co.uk/dr-dennis-gross-skincare-ferulic-retinol-eye-serum.html However, reviews also mention it's not always stocked properly and can be hard to get hold of at times.

JDSTER no actually, never thought to ask! I took the tip given here and brought along my mini bottle to show that I was actually already using it :) I explained I had used P50W for about 6 months and that I was now using the original formula. We were just chatting about stuff and she was interrupted by a call she had been waiting for all afternoon...anyway I should have thought of questions but I was just afraid I would be turned away without my contraband LOL

I have gone ahead and booked a free consultation in a clinic near me to ask what therapies would suit me best (caci etc). I think I will then look into botox and make a decision. I would prefer something longer than temporary so I have a feeling my money would be best invested in the needles.

Bo yes I do have a Neostrata retinol, which I've had for almost a year but only just opened. It was too strong. Hence falling back on my half-used LRP which I was probably using once a week. Just being more diligent about it. I have also got a travel size PC retinol. I will build up to either that or the Neostrata. FWIW CH found the Neostrata too strong even for her (and she generally likes the brand, and retinol).

Thank you botemp and JDSTER. I’ve read your replies carefully and appreciate what you say about acid toners. All this is new to me and it’s hard to find reliable info.

What I am trying to achieve with my skin in general:

-** Stop getting spots - I don’t get that many but when I do they tend to be under the skin, last for ages and, as I mentioned, I am terrible picker (hopefully a reformed one now!)

-** Get my skin looking good and glowy again. I don’t have awful skin by a long shot but the spots get me down. I used to pay a lot of attention to skincare but got a bit slack with the DCs. Still always clean face and moisturise though and take off make-up etc. Am very good with SPF too.

-** Treat red patches left from spots (and picking).

-** Deal with fine lines around eyes and forehead and noticed some small ones around mouth.

What I was trying to achieve with acid use:

-** Better turnover of dead skin cells to hopefully avoid spots.

-* Even out skin tone and reduce red scarring* from spots. (I don’t have rosacea).

-** Correct the ph of my skin for other products (although I read retinoids need a more alkaline skin so not good to use acids with them - is that right?)

Botemp - I note your comments on the TO retinoid and that you don’t consider it a “proper” one but I wanted to start with something that wouldn’t irritate my skin and it had good reviews as well as recommendations on Mumsnet and the Hirons website. As I said, there are so many products and choices and this is all new to me. The TO retinoid was also reasonably priced so not the end of the world if I didn’t get on with it.

Anyway, you are right my skin is dehydrated but it’s not so bad. I doubt it’s from product abuse as I only started using more complex products at Christmas and my skin has always been on the dehydrated side. I will aim to sort out this first by using a hydrating serum (I have a LRP one). Would it be ok to use Liquid Gold (yes I know it contains alcohol and therefore is drying) once a week and a “normal” acid toner a couple of times in the evening? Or still too much?

I started with retinol/oid for anti-aging. Do you think I should stop it for now?

And yes I am planning to read through the previous threads but need to find some time!

Thank you

Sorry about whole paragraphs randomly in bold. Very odd

I'm a bit confused as to how often to use everything tbh. I always used Liquid Gold once a week, on a Sunday. I use TO 5% Retinoid about 2/3 times a week. I have the Glow Tonic but tend to forget about it and use it only once a week. Is that still too much?

I just came back from a few days away and forgot everything but my morning stuff (Vichy 89 & LRP Cicaplast spf50)

So I had to make a random Tesco purchase for a night cream. I got this new Nivea+C sleep cream thing and am very very surprised how nice my skin felt in the morning. It has Ascorbic Acid in a metal tube. God knows the % but I like it enough to repurchase.

User are you using the SPF version of the Cicabio? I'm disliking the Cicaplast spf50 and won't repurchase so I still need an affordable moisturising SPF for the summer instead of moisturiser.

Sophie LRP b5 Cicaplast cream dabbed on the red marks just after the spots have dried up will seriously reduce the amount of time they take to go away. It fades them almost over night too. It's made such a big difference to my skin as those red/purple marks would hang around for months. Now it's 1-2 weeks if that. Dab on so it's visible rather than rub it in and leave on overnight.

"I'm a bit confused as to how often to use everything tbh."

I'm with you on this Elspeth!! And seem to be getting more and more confused....

Thanks Enid. I think I may actually have that cream somewhere in the house. Off to hunt!