Bloggers and brands

[homebythesea]

I love blogs, YouTube, Instagram etc but sometimes do wonder what's in it for the brands especially regarding blogger events.

Straight up reviews of things they get sent I totally get- they try things on/ use a face cream, wax lyrical about how great the thing is, people click through and buy said item. Straightforward advertising. No problem with that at all.

But when a blogger is invited to a dinner, or night away at a hotel, or a movie premiere by a brand I just don't get what is worth the expense? From the blogger perspective they get a night out and a goodie bag and maybe even paid to attend. But what does the brand get in return? A brief tag on an Instagram pic, some photos of beautiful place settings at dinner......but not necessarily sales?? These events must cost thousands to put on.

Hopefully someone with some knowledge about these things will enlighten us!

I recall some of the Insta people going to a big Gleam party in the summer, several put videos of the same event on their stories - Caroline Hirons, Pixi Woo sisters (Real Techniques) their brother Jim Chapman, his wife Tanya Burr, Ruth Crilly (A Model Recommends)as well as most of the aforementioned. Assuming they are all Gleam clients/members it starts to look quite interesting. There were certainly a lot of people there, it was a big Olde English Seaside Funfair themed party somewhere like Margate, it's probably still on YouTube somewhere.

Most PR companies send samples out to media for review but they expect to get them back (unless it’s say food or make up I guess). Celebrity gifting is a different thing, also done by PR companies but is still a form of payment IMO because there is the expectation (or the misguided hope if you aim too high) of something in return. I guess if you are sending a Hush beanie to Angelina Jolie you are taking a bit of a punt, but a blogger with 10k IG followers would probably snap it up, wear it on repeat and tag if if you asked them to.

Thank you for the agency explanations bo, mrscb and all. What nice people. Allegedly. Bloggers of the world unite!

More bloggers talking about their relationships with brands:

Fake Fabulous has always said when she's been gifted something and has her own really quirky style that includes a lot of second hand things and mixing things up so they work for you. She's not a full time blogger, she's a scientist and I think this is an interesting response to the debate.

The post she linked to from Not dressed as lamb is not so measured and as you trace through the links to different bloggers it gets more and more bitter. Admittedly it does seem like the debate is going on elsewhere and is a lot less polite and considered than it is here. Looks like the bubble is beginning to burst. I do think the response of some bloggers has left a very bad taste that makes me much less inclined to read them. Bad business indeed.

IMHO Not Dressed AS Lamb seems to have missed the point?
It's got nothing to do with women changing their style. Again a Blogger being somewhat disingenuous?

Whatlizzyloves says “I often work pro bono” for this, ahem, gifted dress that I’m posting on my feed . I suggest she goes and gets and accountant ASAP before HMRC reads that.

The blog post also says people assume their comments are invisible to the bloggers. I hope the bloggers ARE reading this thread, because maybe they will start to understand how their readers/followers feel. The earlier comments from a PP about how they thought an emotional connection wasn’t formed between the IG/blogger and the follower actually shocked me. I can only think that’s how they can rationalise not being upfront with their readers about stuff they are promoting to them on their feed.

NDAL does seem to have missed the point. It's about being honest about what is gifted rather than passing items off as your own. Also, if someone followed your blog and it's changed massively, for whatever reason, they may stop following...

It's not a style issue, it's a transparency issue.

Also, what's with the women supporting women otherwise they are haters comments? I'm happy to support women but I'm not going to dispense with my views and principles for the sake of it.

To be fair to the bloggers, Heather, they do churn out a lot of interesting and unique content (some of them anyway), and so it may not be work like you or I are used to but I do believe they put in a lot of hours and work hard for their blogs. Going shopping every day, or even every week would be my idea of hell but I'm sure my job would leave them cold as well.

I also think their own background can give them the authenticity that makes them a good person to review a family holiday, for example. More so than a 25 year old travel writer with no family, working on a magazine. So I get that. The lack of formal training though has come out in how some of them handle criticism and how they understand their relationship with their readers and followers.

NDAL comes across very badly; she could have written a perfectly good post about women "changing style" without any reference to the IG spat regarding comments made about her friend. And her response to the negative comments - "well, you're just boosting my numbers by even being here, so I don't care what you think" was graceless.

Of course some do, I totally agree. But others that appear to have jumped on the bandwagon, churning out the same brands and same promotions etc because they don’t want to miss and opportunity for a gift. ‘Oh today I went to.... and we had coffee and chatted about their brand’ doesn’t equate to me a ‘hard days work’. And of course, there are many, who blog for a purpose, a really good one, stick with it and can really resonate with women. So definitely two sides. But there is a definitive blurring of the word I work as a blogger. Again, my opinion .

I'm afraid I cannot take seriously anyone who calls me a 'hater'. My niece used to say it when she was about 12.

Read NDAL blog. Just for the record, and I speak for myself here but under the assumption for everyone? I was always under the hope/assumption many bloggers would read this thread. I am more then happy for them to know what we think, lots are positive, lots aren’t. And the thing I think they are forgetting is their job is SOCIAL media based, so our opinion does matter and if they don’t take some advice from us then there is a chance, very small, that they may not attract anymore followers.

Can I firstly apologise to anyone who has felt that I have mislead them in any way with regards to the contents of my blog.

I have written my blog almost every day for coming up to 7 years and on the back of that have been fortunate enough (a lot of right place right time) to build a career around it, in this new, and often, confusing world of social media. As well the changing role of media and marketing.

I am aware that integrity and honesty have been key to my success and I do try and be as transparent as I can. I always declare when I am working on a paid partnership, as will I declare when I receive a gift.

I may not mention every time I then wear said gift as, as far as I was aware, that wasn’t something most bloggers did (and I believe still don’t). I do always (and if I don’t, it is genuinely an oversight and not a nefarious move on my part) thank whoever sent me the gift in some form.

However I appreciate that, for some, this isn’t enough and so I have taken this on board and have changed the way I list my outfit details. I also took note of the issues raised with regards to unrealistic lifestyles. I’ve thought about this long and hard and yes, my lifestyle has changed as my career has expanded and my kids have got older which gives me more freedom to do other things. However I thought it useful to show how I don’t always wear new things. Hence letting people know when things were purchased or gifted, and showing that most people will mix new with old.

I also wanted to clarify, as again it’s not something I mention, but I accept probably only around 10% of what I am offered as gifts. I either politely decline before sent, return or give to charity if they don’t want it back.

I only ever keep and wear things that I myself would and could afford to buy. In the main, I like being able to support small businesses who have very little marketing budget but get a huge return from bloggers wearing and genuinely loving their product.

I’m sure there are loads of questions I haven’t answered but I am more than happy to.

On my insta post and insta story, I also am hugely sorry if that was misunderstood. The only point I was addressing was not transparency as a whole, but the fact that my integrity was being questioned with regards to specific items, that I’d actually paid for. However I apologise if I didn’t make this point clearly enough. I am fully open to criticism and even personal attack (not going to lie, it’s not pleasant to read!!) but when things are assumed in one post and then reiterated as fact in another, I will admit I did have an issue with that, as I think most would.

I haven’t come on before as I’m not and never have been a member of Mumsnet and felt I was intruding on a private conversation that I hadn’t been invited to! But I feel in order to hopefully put my point across, as I’m clearly doing it really badly elsewhere (doh!), I wanted to apologise and put my point of view across.

Apologies for any typos, I haven’t reread this tome, am gagging for a my first coffee of the day...

this thread has been fascinating for me. I do some work in securing brand placements for talent (not bloggers, but the campaigns almost always involve some form of social media engagement) and authenticity of message is always paramount (eg brand may specify how many tweets / posts around a subject and timing of them, but language and expression always to be talent's own). The law around this is much more evolved in the US thanks in part to a lawsuit between Katherine Heigl (an actress) and Duane Reade (a store who tweeted a pap picture of her carrying one of their bags and implied an endorsement) / a whole stack of Kardashian family unattributed sponsored posts. There are now substantial fines (multi million dollar) that can be levied in the US for failing to declare sponsored posts / endorsements although of course these aren't at that level bloggers with 25k followers.
I've had a look at DMBL40 / Chloe loves to shop courtesy of this thread, was previously unaware of them. I wonder if somehow they feel unattainable because for many people those lifestyles are unattainable - they do reek of rich families in the background, and so yes, even if they do only feature gifted items that they could and would buy themselves (how much more credibility if they did actually purchase those gifted items therefore, even on a discount?), they're still going to be featuring a lot of expensive products (the Next sponsored post this weekend from CHloe loves to shop did not however seem authentic / in her style - based only on a recent sample of her posts however). It's a classic case of "free to those who can afford it, very expensive to those who can't" (thanks, Withnail) - but that's been the same with a Vogue or Harper's Bazaar shoot as well -
who can afford the Tatler lifestyle? Doesn't stop people who can't from buying the mag, and it has been so for many, many years - the number of "personalities" from sport / acting / music who pay for their own cars for eg is not great - luxury car manufacturers have been "loaning" cars and replacing them with the newest model since time began - and it's quite pervasive, it's not just the obvious pap targets who get them.

Anyway - in a total case of Baader Meinhof syndrome, having never previously heard of these particular bloggers, there's a large photo of one in my Telegraph this morning and I suspect I am going to be unable to avoid them now!

I think what is also paramount in this thread is that many bloggers have remained true to themselves. Sticking to what they originally started their blog for. Others have unfortunately been taken in another direction because of the material
Gains . But we all have the option not to participate. What I feel has probably annoyed many is the lack of holding my hands up and saying I’m
Doing this sponsored by..... and not making look like it’s for their own gains but maybe of interest to the readers who quite possibly put them where they are today. Along with that their rubbish attitude at being questioned. I do feel many posts should have been taken down by some bloggers whose comments attracted quite vile abuse which seems to be ok for them to do however we can’t, and In an adult form, give our option.
Sometimes appearing contrite then doesn’t come across as genuine either.

For me, the difference with, say a Vogue shoot is that it's so obviously unreal and unaffordable, there's no temptation for me. So instead I look at the clothes, have a bit of a laugh but sometimes also get inspiration as to how I could do a very toned down version - and of course the high street is very good at translating them.

Plus there is no personal connection. Vogue never sets its stall out as my friend whereas bloggers do. Many of them are followed by people who first encountered them when they led very similar lifestyles.

Kat thank you for coming on here, I'm sure it can't have been easy. I now have to do some work but I will read your post properly later.

good point flo - I've only encountered these blogs as a result of this thread and looked at recent posts. Also good point flo re: coming on here and discussing it directly (in a post that really doesn't read like it was written by Gleam & therefore am assuming is personal).

Was also going to add, thank you for coming on Kat and putting your side across.

The bandwagon of abusive comments instead of a discussion on some instagram accounts did leave a very bad impression though.

Sorry, I won't be directing you directly KatFarmer, as I may be the minority on this thread but I've never found it conducive to the discussion of transparency by measuring bloggers individually against each other and discussing them individually. Nor am I, or have I ever been a follower or seen the Instagram posts or stories and accompanying comments.

However, something you said left me with questions that I'd love someone with knowledge of tax codes/legislation to chime in on. I run my own business and know them inside out but I'm not in the UK, hence it may be a different situation. So apologies for talking over you, and you're more than welcome to answer if you do know the ins and outs of tax codes.

So I'm going to be a bit of a semantic pedant but the following sentence, I accept probably only around 10% of what I am offered as gifts. I either politely decline before sent, return or give to charity if they don’t want it back. got me thinking. Are these truly gifts?

A gift given from B2B falls under very strict guidelines here to avoid corruption and forms of payment without taxation. A very low threshold is given per annum per individual employee and everything of value (RRP) over that threshold is taxed as income. Most companies will, therefore, have a no gift accepting policy as the administration of recording those gifts is extremely costly and it would undermine the company's own budget for staff outings, parties, etc. which are a gift from employer to employee. Unsolicited gifts would still have to be recorded even if we politely declined and we're unable to send/give it back and then passed it on to a charity or similar.

All of those gifts are given (or meant to anyhow), without any expectation of reciprocation. KF indicates these 'gifts' are either declined, returned, or given to charity. That's not a gift in my book, as a business it's very difficult to refuse gifts and maintain mutual relations, especially when dealing with clients from outside the EU. Gifts are not something you negotiate about on a per case basis, there's a clear policy that dictates the response. What KF is describing in my business practice would be considered a 'sample' which comes with its own special tax code rules. It also means it has no market value except within the context of being able to do your job (with clothes that would mean cutting out the tags, or cutting into the tags), you can't use it outside of the job, it's not intended for personal use, and you most certainly cannot sell it on. Those are offered, come in unsolicited through the post, and discarded all the time.

So basically I am really curious about this 'gifting' terminology, are there special tax incentives in the UK that makes this the preferred terminology for either blogger or brand? Or is it a blogger thing, that being seen to be gifted all these things add to their perceived popularity as a blogger and desirability among brands? A gift implies no expectation of reciprocity yet it seems par for the course to use their wide media platforms to 'thank' them so publicly, it may not be agreed behaviour but it certainly appears to be the norm and keeps this 'gifting' cycle in continual motion. Or is it just a case that calling things a sample devalue the brand of the blogger? We're all used to getting gifts ourselves so we can once again connect emotionally (as it's usually a very positive feeling) with a blogger but we're not regular recipients of samples as an individual.

botemp, sorry, haven’t made myself very clear. A gift is just that. It’s a gift with no expectation of me offering anything in return. Hence if someone asks “would you like an x” and I wouldn’t like it, I say no.

Ditto if something arrives as a gift and I don’t like it, wouldn’t wear it, wouldn’t recommend it, I’ll offer to send it back or give it to charity. Obviously people aren’t aware of how often this happens as I’m not sure it’s appropriate to mention it?

If I am sent something with the reciprocal agreement that I will do a blog or a post on it, it is seen as advertising and as such I would mark as ad.

Hi Kat, How does it work in terms of your holiday in Mauritius? From what I remember you linked the travel company and hotels and didn’t mention anything until asked. How exactly would you define the holiday? A collaboration or an ad? Maybe in hindsight would it have been wise to state that you are on holiday in conjunction with..... before someone had to ask?
It’s just very confusing and therein lies the need I guess for clarity and then nothing appears to be so cloak and dagger.

KatFarmer, I think it's very difficult to field what is and what isn't 'required' because it's a completely unregulated industry. I think most bloggers adhere to the ASA guidelines and therefore consider themselves transparent (as it's known some bloggers don't even adhere to that) when that's just scraping the bare minimum. I think followers will have higher expectations wrt transparency and they will continue to evolve once people gain greater knowledge of how the system works and it appears to be benefitting some but not all. And when they're seen to be the ones responsible for that discrepancy and simultaneously the ones losing out that will bring out anger and upset. There will be leaders and laggers behind where it comes to transparency and that will, in turn, indicate industry norm.

In my opinion, it's better to be overly clear (without being patronising about it, just factual) than constantly having to restate and clarify.