Bloggers and brands

[homebythesea]

I love blogs, YouTube, Instagram etc but sometimes do wonder what's in it for the brands especially regarding blogger events.

Straight up reviews of things they get sent I totally get- they try things on/ use a face cream, wax lyrical about how great the thing is, people click through and buy said item. Straightforward advertising. No problem with that at all.

But when a blogger is invited to a dinner, or night away at a hotel, or a movie premiere by a brand I just don't get what is worth the expense? From the blogger perspective they get a night out and a goodie bag and maybe even paid to attend. But what does the brand get in return? A brief tag on an Instagram pic, some photos of beautiful place settings at dinner......but not necessarily sales?? These events must cost thousands to put on.

Hopefully someone with some knowledge about these things will enlighten us!

And no, they certainly don't send the clothes back. If you like something they all seem to be suddenly wearing, wait a couple of weeks for the eBay glut!

botemp 16:56

Fantastic post. I'm so glad you've noticed it too.

I had a critical post deleted on a thread that was clearly started by someone pushing a product. It's very hard to counteract.

I used to buy Vogue, Gracia and Marie Clare magazine on a regular basis. I never buy them anymore. I get all of my fashion inspiration from bloggers and Instagram. The likes of Max Factor would take out double page adverts in Vogue for hundreds of thousands of pounds that I would just skip through. Some bloggers/instagrammers have many more followers than Vogue’s readership so why wouldn’t the brands start targeting them? It is far more cost effective for them.

I agree, that post from botemp is spot on.

I too switched from magazines to bloggers and the like but I don't follow any of them any more. Apart from anything else, they bore me senseless. I'd rather just go out for a coffee and watch what people are wearing.

thecatfromjapan, unfortunately, it's coupled with an uneasy feeling where MNHQ is increasingly monetising the S&B boards with the intensification of MN recommends threads and Deal alerts continually pinned at the top. Whilst they're transparent about every link on MN being an affiliate link in the T&C they could afford to be a bit more transparent about it.

I've always felt there was a strange double standard wrt troll hunting and spam hunting but it almost seems to be as if MNHQ doesn't seem to mind subtle spam as long as there's a nice clicky link that garners them affiliate sales (as someone will always ask for a clickable link if the OP doesn't provide it). Your experience makes me fear they'll soon be taking just as hard a line on spam hunters as they have done with troll hunters.

botemp I am really sad to say I agree with you. And I say that as someone who thinks MN is a really valuable resource for women.

I hardly ever follow beauty or make up threads for this reason (unless they're about sensitive skin).

Yes, I say it from a point of concern out of care for this place not just to criticise it for sport. There will always need to be a careful balance of commercial and non-commercial interests to keep this place running but it seems one side is losing out now.

I've also noticed they let companies run free on here, completely unverified. In my opinion, a verified company account option should be available (and mandatory for commercial entities -including bloggers- acting as such on threads) so people know clearly who they're dealing with and it's also in the best interest of companies not to be misrepresented by competitors seeking to do them damage. This happened a few months back with Deciem on the Skincare Addiction Reddit where someone acted as a rep from the company making excuses, made some really insensitive remarks and the company received a lot of backlash as a result. They claimed they had no Reddit account which could have just been the best damage control, but it could equally have been a competitor purposefully jumping on a thread that was already expressing a lot of criticism to hit the final nail in the coffin among a group of already critical consumers.

The MN S&B boards are very obviously carefully monitored by certain companies. I've seen the 'CEO' of Beautypie pop up here who seems to have plenty of time on her hands to explain the products and subscription service at length, never quite selling but the boundary is vague. The Hush or Toast (can't remember who it was) thread where some CS rep came on and the OP ended up with a free order after briefly mentioning some heartbreak and wishing to treat herself. Wonderful if it was genuine, and I'm not that tinfoil hat enough to believe it was engineered from scratch, but I remain cynical that it was the PR opportunity that incentivised the gesture, testament by the many posters queuing up to say how wonderful company X was and how they'd be shopping with the brand again and again as result. Again I believe those posters were genuine but there's more at play than a bit of random kindness from a company that does a fair bit of trade thanks to the MN S&B boards. That was all a form of free advertising without being overt and I do feel MNHQ could afford to be a bit more strict about those developments of soft selling as eventually, it will impact their advertising bottom line too. Why would companies bother to buy the cow if they can get the milk for free?

I am so over all the bloggers. Personally I would either like floisme observe people in real life or read vogue.

And botemp I also agree with you. It has been going on for a while.

I am actually really put off brands that give loads of free shit away to bloggers. I really don't get why some of the more luxe brands do this as it totally devalues them.

I can see that they want to create a sort of cool club, and so increase the aura of desirability of their products, but I think they need to be careful. That 'club' thing can also make people feel excluded, and when I see an instagram story of some blogger gushing over a really extravagant freebie they've just been sent it does actually make me think uncharitable 'fuck off' thoughts, and make it less likely that I'm going to buy that brand.

Yes great post botemp. I never realised those beauty posts were set-up ads. I'll be interested to see if I pick up ads from now on.

I watch stories on instagram. But I find less and less as most are phenomenally boring and my time is precious. I don't mind bloggers making livings out of Instagram, I'm sure they work for every penny they earn. But I do mind the cloak and dagger mystery 'is it sponsored or not' crapola. Esp on stories, where it disappears. I now just assume it's all sponsored.

And all the exposure of kids!! It's quite shocking. (to me anyway) All sorts of personal details.

Some time ago on Instagram, a blogger who runs some kind of social promotion company thing, linked to an article as to how much you can charge companies wrt your Instgram following size. Made for sort of interesting reading.

I admit to being fascinated by but ignorant about this whole concept. I’ve only recently discovered Instagram (after the MN instamum thread I had to have a look). There are a few high st / part time bloggers I follow who I genuinely believe don’t get bombarded with free shit. The ‘full timers’ are just zzzzzzzzzz.

Watch out for Charlotte Tilbury, they usually show up in threads of three

I think most people don't mind bloggers monetising their brand but realistically most won't even click on a disclosed ad, never mind buy something recommended in a sponsored post but happily accept their presence. Do too many of those, however, and you're a sellout whilst those who operate without any sort of transparency aren't penalised in the same way. Hence the whole system no longer working and even more subtle methods are employed. Word of mouth remains the most effective form of advertising and MN is an ideal place to cultivate that. I'm more surprised that it took brands this long to start engineering these strategies really.

I've never understood fashion blogger appeal, fashion has always been about outsiders expressing something that could only be expressed in fashion. It's about aspiration and inspiration in varying measures, Vogue (yes, pretty much the only 'commercial' magazine worth looking in these days, though I love the international editions from France and Italy the most for being decidedly unfamiliar) is almost all aspiration, so much so that it becomes inspiration by default as 99.9% of readers can never even hope to afford the outfits in there which means you have to make your own interpretation to make it yours and you actually end up focusing on a honed style of your own rather than following these bloggers directly, who all look the bloody same. It's like the antithesis of style and fashion to me.

Nowhere is free from it anymore. TV, magazines, Instagram and now threads on MN. I could always avoid the ads if I wanted too on TV but now it seems I can't.

Seems very Orwellian.

I'll be honest with you mr & mrs advertisers. I work very hard, I have cash that I like to spend each month. My loves are cake, clothes, shoes and home stuff.

I loved Instagram, loved it but if I see another boring wealthy blogger whirling around their kitchen on an iPhone recording wearing the latest polyester eyesore from M&S - I'll start to boycott you. White company, Boden, La redoute, John Lewis bed department, next et al.

It's just so bloody boring, it does nothing for me as a spending consumer to see it as a freebie on someone's back for all of 5 minutes knowing it's hitting an eBay shop in 6 weeks time. I don't give a monkeys that you gave them a night in a swanky air BnB. In fact, it's putting me off your brand as you expect ME the consumer to ultimately foot that bill through the cost of it all. I'll happily browse your shop or online store in my own time.

That's not aspirational, that just wasteful and boring and probably costing me money in the long run.

I'd rather ask someone where they got something they love than see a blogger wearing it for a day when I know it's not hanging in their wardrobe permanently any time soon.

Well today I did something I haven't done for a long, long time. I bought a magazine, largely on the back of this article:
www.theguardian.com/fashion/2017/nov/07/enninful-fronts-up-to-diversity-debate-with-first-british-vogue-cover

Smart move too - Instagram can't compete with thoughtful writing. I was a bit disappointed at the time that Vogue couldn't find a woman worth appointing to the editor's job. Nevertheless if Edward Enninful does succeed in making it a more diverse and challenging read then I might end up coming full circle and reading printed magazines again.

Lovely posts from Botemp and Floisme. I think you've both inspired me to buy a copy of Vogue.

(I really liked the Twitter ads.)

I’m a lecturer in marketing and am fascinated by the rise of influencers. I feel like the “rules”are so woolly in terms of disclosure that it can be really confusing even if you’re savvy - for example the ASA says affiliate links must be declared, but just one line on an “about me” page that says they’re used is deemed to be sufficient. I don’t mind monetisation, and I think brands use online media “personalities” pretty smartly, but I can’t bear lazy content. I read a post the other day about choosing a wedding ring on a fashion blog which had clearly been cut and pasted from the press release -come on!

I also love magazines, and frequently buy the glossies. I agree with the comment upthread about well-written editorial. And yes, of course there’s a direct link between ad space and editorial -but I think everyone knows this and is mindful of it. Some of the online stuff just feels a bit sneaky, especially when it’s reaching out to a target market of teens who are the biggest consumers of vlogs.

Should Flo and I just reveal now that we work for Vogue

I'm also intending to buy a British Vogue or at the very least a lengthy browse in store which I haven't done in years, also from reading that Guardian article earlier today. I'm happy to support someone with an ambition that isn't wholly self-aggrandising and the promise of non-brain draining editorials. Although that Lucinda Chambers business was a bit off.

Ooh does this mean I'm an influencer now?

I might well have bought a copy anyway purely on the basis of seeing the name of one of my heroes - Glenda Jackson - on the cover.
I must admit I'm half afraid to open it in case I'm disappointed!

I was already very swayed by the Twitter ad. It looked very jolly, and like a diverse, post-Referendum, Grace Coddington-inspired shoot. I liked Alexandra Schulman and was a bit put off with the stories coming out when she left but the ad was intriguing.

... but, yes, I think you two have influenced me. So I guess you are!

Just leaving the links here to two very interesting threads from last year regarding this very topic:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/style_and_beauty/2547239-Caroline-Hirons-Website
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/style_and_beauty/2583803-Caroline-Hirons-Website-vol-2-more-inside-dirt-on-beauty-fashion-blogging

Botemp after your first post about S&B I immediately thought about Charlotte Tilbury. There was a thread not long ago about some boring palette that she's just released. If it was chat about Modern Renaissance or some other cult palette I could understand but that looked really random.

I’m also planning to buy vogue!