Bloggers and brands

[homebythesea]

I love blogs, YouTube, Instagram etc but sometimes do wonder what's in it for the brands especially regarding blogger events.

Straight up reviews of things they get sent I totally get- they try things on/ use a face cream, wax lyrical about how great the thing is, people click through and buy said item. Straightforward advertising. No problem with that at all.

But when a blogger is invited to a dinner, or night away at a hotel, or a movie premiere by a brand I just don't get what is worth the expense? From the blogger perspective they get a night out and a goodie bag and maybe even paid to attend. But what does the brand get in return? A brief tag on an Instagram pic, some photos of beautiful place settings at dinner......but not necessarily sales?? These events must cost thousands to put on.

Hopefully someone with some knowledge about these things will enlighten us!

Bo - I'm rural. Any idea where I could pick up a copy of either of these?

To be fair to DMBL, I don't think she is still posting about this discussion any longer. My comments about unfollowing earlier were more about me personally reflecting on this discussion and revisiting some of her posts at the time with my rose-tinted spectacles having since been removed. I guess my own brand loyalty to DMBL was quite strong as it did take some effort to unfollow, and my previous comments about liking her overall look and chatty writing style still stand.

Vestoj won't be out until December but places that sell Vestoj usually sell The Gentlewoman too. It's predominantly independent bookshops that sell them,
on vestoj.com/buy/ there's quite a few in the UK listed. I'm sure they all have online shops or are able to send it to you. The Gentlewoman you can also get a subscription for a year on www.bruil.info/product/the-gentlewoman/ (€34 per annum inclusive of shipping, cheaper if you do more years, two issues a year) but you'd probably not get the most recent issue. It's still available to me locally (as are some Vestoj back issues) but I'm not sure if that shop has decent international shipping rates, best to check the UK shops listed on Vestoj first.

Thanks for the links

I think you have totally missed the point, restofthetimes. I have bought some magazines lately because I do know where I stand somewhat more. I know that the desks and shopping cupboard are full with the latest products and every agency is vying for their client to be featured. I understand the events, networking and press days.

I think not publishing a credit or a collaboration and THEN back tracking when called out on it is somewhat patronising to the reader, because we are media savvy. It just makes you turn off.

For an agency and fellow bloggers to call people names because they had dared to ask what everyone was thinking, I didn't like the hypocrisy and tactics. I thought the balance needed addressing. Is that so bizarre?

I know where I stand too. I'm just surprised that people reading blogs didn't/don't.

Erm, I'm going to hazard a guess that it's because it wasn't made clear to them that people were being paid to promote things on their blog .

I wasn't sure the exact volume of promotion, now a few days worth of (g) or (gift) shows how rife it is.

Now I understand it's no better than magazine content, where an article or 50 best gifts under £200 always features brands/items that are part the paid for ads around it.

I had no idea it was so common and makes me look very different at peoples accounts.

Maybe I'm just naive as to how life works in promotions.

I think a lot of these blogs have changed from a blogger showing what they've bought, mostly on the highstreet, with the odd investment piece to the blogger sporting lots of designer pieces worth ££££ without much acknowledgement of the change. I know I've mentally switched off to quite a few, as it was obvious they were either buying tons of very expensive items or being gifted them. Often, with quite a change in style involved. The usp of most of these bloggers was a "real" or "streetstyle" angle that has now been lost.

I think the responsibility to be upfront lies fairly and squarely with the blogger and their agency.

Speaking of which, Gleam are very coy about which brands they represent. I can only find a couple of 'case studies' who - with the greatest respect to them - are pretty small fry.

But I have found that Vestoj have a stockist near me which is indeed a surprise and shows I don't know my own neighbourhood as well as I think I do. So I'll call in and take a look - I'm quite excited at the thought of an advert free read a couple of times a year so thanks again botemp

But most of us do know that bloggers are pushing free stuff, brand partnerships and affiliate links. The ones I can't stand write as if we don't know this and that is why it's patronising. Who wants to read a blog that had such contempt for its readers?

My understanding is that Gleam is an agency of influencers, not brands. They act as the middle man between the influencers and the brands and presumably take a cut of the fees paid to the bloggers.

This is a really interesting article about the CEO of Gleam who makes the point himself that the bloggers become “friends” with their followers through their frequent interactions. Suggesting that this isn’t being used to sell stuff just isn’t true.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/youtuber-manager-zoella-tanya-burr-alfie-deyes-star-new-celebrities-dom-smales-social-media-online-a7510716.html

The ‘going back to magazines’ Ed’s is quite ironic, given they seem to be full of ‘influencers’ now for content. I’m looking at the Telegraph Stella magazine and it has at least three pages referencing them as usual.

I’m fine with it, I’d rather see them than models I don’t relate to at all. However it helps when you know what you’re looking at. E.g Ruth Crilly’s bathroom essentials including a dry shampoo she’s an owner of and Caroline Hiron’s (who seems to be represented by Gleam, also) cleanser.

Thanks, that article does look interesting - and very open about how they actively encourage this faux friendship.

'Represent' was probably the wrong word. I get that Gleam and co are the 'middle man'; what I don't quite get is why they're so upfront about who their bloggers are but so cagey about which brands they work with. It was similar with Brand Ambassadors Agency - other posters looked for a list of their clients (i.e. their brands) and couldn't find one.

I think there is a list of brands for the BAA, but they tend to represent small and lesser known brands like Air and Grace - I think they are pretty small fry. Gleam looks like big business, more likely to work with bigger names, and they also represent Mother Pukka. If I was to make some wild guesses based on recent IG activity I would say: Ted Baker, LaRedoute, Oasis, Specsavers, Belmond hotels, John Lewis. Would love to know if some or any of these guesses were correct!

BAA brands >
Mos Mosh
Orwell+Austen
WoDen Sneakers
Rue de Femme
MKT Studio

There are other agencies who specialise in social media placements for the brands - they would then work with the likes of Gleam.

Gleam represents the 'talent' not the brands although of course they will have good relationships with certain brands or rather the PR's who work with those brands.

Gleam have also recently sold out to a large Japanese marketing agency so will be interesting to see how that changes things.

I've a horrible feeling I'm making very heavy weather of something very simple, but are you saying the brands approach the bloggers and pay them directly, with Gleam just taking a cut?
If that's the case and I were a blogger, I'd be cutting them loose as soon as I could.
Sorry but I've never thought through how it all works before.

Well done Vestoj, clearly they know where the movers and shakers reside, Flo

Just some added info, you can also buy individual back issues of The Gentlewoman on that bruil.info site (the publisher of the magazine), and it appears they also sell through Amazon under the seller name Bruil & van de Staaij (but you know, supporting your local independent bookstore is so much nicer )

Interesting about the Japanese takeover, were numbers named/rumoured? Wrt the agencies representing these influencers I do remember vaguely Jane from BBB (but I may very well be misremembering so don't take it as representative or as fact) that agencies like Gleam will leverage negotiations to exclude certain influencers not under contract with them or exclude any other influencers partaking in a campaign as a condition to work with their highly sought after talents. In that way, they create giant blocks of their influencer stable to participate in campaigns exclusively and create that overkill of exposure. I suppose the large fish help feed the smaller influencers (who would probably otherwise gone unnoticed by the brand) while Gleam rakes in multiple commissions.

Gleam will have relationships with other agencies that handle lots of brands. So eg Dior beauty approach Gleam and say we want to target this demographic which of your 'talent' reaches that market. Gleam then set up the deal, sort out contracts and take a % for doing so.

Some bloggers do it without an agency but then it is harder to reach some brands especially when starting out. Also arguably an agency can negotiate harder for a blogger and know what market rates are which may be hard for an individual blogger to know.

Some brands especially smaller ones may and do approach bloggers directly though but they won't be the ones paying the big £££.

I remember a Sali Hughes in the bathroom video with Jane Cunningham from BBB discussing how she navigates being true to herself and the commercial aspects of running a blog. It’s well worth a watch, it’s a couple of years old now I think, but I found it fascinating and such a brilliantly interesting conversation between the two of them.

I've advocated my love of that certain blogger all along.

But what has now really irritated me is her claims of complete transparency. I have followed her blog and IG religiously for the last 5-odd years and never in that time has she mentioned that the Wyse London sweater (that I have contemplated, but never bought) was a gift. Until now. Three years later.

I think she believes that if she hasn't been paid directly, then it isn't an ad. Just check all her current gifted items, that she has featured over the past year. None that has been represented as such on her feed.

She is playing the semantics game. No, they probably aren't paid ads, or sponsored. But receiving them as gifts are the same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

What a shame, as I love her generally.

Just catching up on this thread - it’s been really interesting to see how it’s evolved. People keep taking about bloggers advertising products when they have been gifted them - I would argue that, from a marketing perspective, this is actually PR, and quite different. There’s no direct payment for the “space” and no guarantee of coverage - it’s like Dior sending Angelina Jolie a frock and hoping she’ll wear it to the Oscars and drop it in an interview. She might wear a Chanel dress she was sent instead, and she might not do any interviews. This type of gifting has been going on for decades - it’s the media type that’s changing, not the method.