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M&S - it's over

277 replies

Floisme · 05/11/2017 17:00

I've been known to defend M&S on here but if this is their attitude they can fuck right off.

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/05/not-just-for-over-55s-ms-chairman-says-chain-needs-younger-clothing

Because of course the over 55s just loved The Pink Dress. And all that yellow. We can't get enough of it.

No, Mr Norman, you haven't been 'buying too much for the over 55 customer'. What you've been buying, is too much shite.

OP posts:
Chestervase1 · 07/11/2017 19:54

Euphemia I ordered some beautiful coats from Windsmoor online last year. I bought one at full price and one reduced in the sale, with beautiful matching dresses. They were a collaboration with Paul Costello and available in navy, cream, apricot or blue. This finish is beautiful. I was really impressed with the collection.

Kazzyhoward · 07/11/2017 19:58

M&S quality control is a joke. Their sizing is totally inconsistent. Even buying the same size in different colours of the same item, you can lay one on the other and the different sizes is so obvious, for items that are allegedly the same size. I used to buy virtually all our clothes there (self and hubby) but can't actually remember the last thing either of us bought there.

Chestervase1 · 07/11/2017 20:01

Bubblesbunny it’s not mustard or yellow as such but a particular shade that M&S are stocking. All their colours are a bit off. You can not compare them with Zara who are amazing and fashion forward, my son’s fiancée was photographed at Goodwood last year in yellow and was featured again on the large screen at the course this year. It can and does look amazing especially if you are young and beautiful. Sadly the rest of us can’t carry it off lol. M&S are not Zara and they will never be able to compete with them.

walnutwhip88 · 07/11/2017 20:03

It has no street cred

Chestervase1 · 07/11/2017 20:11

I’m sorry I wasn’t aware that Windsmoor no longer existed. I think Mr Archie Norman missed a trick there. M&S should have bought the company. I believe Windsmoor did make costs for M&S in the eighties.

LoniceraJaponica · 07/11/2017 22:48

I don't understand the love for Zara on here. Every time I go into the Meadowhall shop it resembles a jumble sale, and all the colours are sludgy and don't suit me.

MismatchedCat · 07/11/2017 23:07

I don't get the Zara love either. I pop in quite regularly as I live close to one, but haven't bought anything for about 2 years. It's just racks and racks of viscose rags falling apart on the hanger, and yes, it resembles a jumble sale. Very unappealing.

Also, thanks to those who recommended some places to find plain tops. I forgot about COS and Landsend.

Floisme · 08/11/2017 07:19

Speaking of Zara and their business practices, this popped up in my inbox yesterday.

cleanclothes.org/news/2017/09/25/zara-next-mango-slammed-for-leaving-workers-without-wages-in-turkish-factory

There's a link at the end to a petition. Of course no-one on the high street is blameless but I can remember Zara being named and shamed before, while Mango famously dragged their feet over paying compensation for Rana Plaza. Are these really the best role models Mr. Norman can come up with?

OP posts:
Floisme · 08/11/2017 07:41

Sorry that might be slightly misleading - I don't think he mentioned Mango, just Zara.

OP posts:
5amisnotmorning · 08/11/2017 07:48

M and S need to do a Uniqlo and Hush cross and be known for great basics that are fantastic to wear. A fantastic white t shirt, great quality, flattering long sleeved tops, great quality merino jumpers, down coats and gilets, great jeggings (where all the sizing is the same no matter what colour), flattering straight cut jeans, a really great wool coat long and shorter, knitted trousers, things that flatter any shapes and that most people want in their wardrobes. The brand isn't associated with fashion but with quality and they need to go back to their strengths.

Gingefringe · 08/11/2017 08:35

I hope Mr Norman is reading this link.
He should think long and hard about pissing off his loyal customers. I am 54 and regularly buy from M&S - mainly homeware and beauty products which are excellent but I will certainly think again about shopping there if that is his attitude.
When I was 35 I had no disposable income even though I was a 'professional' as I had two kids at nursery and a crippling mortgage. Now I have money to spare but will think twice before spending it at M&S.

MrsFezziwig · 08/11/2017 08:46

LoniceraJaponica
You’re right about Zara’s Meadowhall shop - not to mention the mile long queue for the checkouts - but I think it must be poorly managed - when I’ve visited other Zara branches there don’t seem to be the same problems.

PatricianOfAnkhMorpork · 08/11/2017 09:46

I think we are about to see something spectacular happen.

M&S announced their half year financials this morning: profits down by 5.3% although revenue was up 2.6%. Like for like all sales were down though - clothes, food and homeware.

They also announced that their Group CFO has resigned but will remain in post whilst they search for a successor. Two weeks ago the new head of clothing, Jo Jenkins, resigned having only been in the post a few months - she has gone to White Stuff. They've also put on hold plans to open some Simply Food stores.

Will they start listening now?

JaceLancs · 08/11/2017 09:58

I still buy underwear and swimwear in M & S along with jeans or jeggings
I used to buy their cashmere but then it went downhill and I found better quality elsewhere
Nearly everything else I wouldn’t buy due to the fabric never mind the style
I shop mainly at tkmaxx and outlet stores for Hobbs jaeger east pure etc along with charity shops

Nettletheelf · 08/11/2017 10:00

In fairness to M&S, other retailers including John Lewis have reported tough trading.

Chestervase1 · 08/11/2017 10:19

Personally I wouldn’t be seen washed and laid out in a T shirt. I just don’t get the T shirt love. Autograph is now quite strange I think I’m correct but wasn’t it all red, white and blue in the summer.

CouldWouldaDidnt · 08/11/2017 11:33

There was a lot of purple and print in the summer.
A lot of red in /autograph at the moment though.

YY to previous poster saying a lot of retailers struggling.

Where did you get those figures Patrician?
Those figures are correct as of May perhaps but takings for this last quarter were up against this time last year?
The store I left this morning is taking more per week this year against last year too. A lot of that is hospitality and food don't get me wrong.
But beauty, homewear and lingerie beat plan every week.

I don't want to say goodbye to M&S, I mean obviously, as I don't want to lose my job! Or see the thousands of loyal hardworking collegues lose theirs either, just because some arse who thinks he speaks for all of M&S delivered one of the most arrogant and misguided comments about our customers that I have ever heard.

Write to them, tweet them tell them what they are doing wrong.
Don't take it out on the staff in store- which I am sure none of you would, but honestly I witnessed a lady tell one of the poor girls on the floor that she deserved to lose her job because of Mr Normans speech. Hardly her fault.Hmm

thecatfromjapan · 08/11/2017 11:57

Could "Don't take it out on the staff in store- which I am sure none of you would, but honestly I witnessed a lady tell one of the poor girls on the floor that she deserved to lose her job because of Mr Normans speech. Hardly her fault."

Really? Hmm

I'm astonished that

  • the speech was so widely reported it reached M and S customers to such a degree
  • that it produced such fury in the breasts of women that they had to, immediately, go to an M and S and speak to someone about it
  • that someone who was pissed off with ageism would be the same demographic as someone who would find a hapless Sales Assistant to vent at

I've visited 3 M and S this week. There was no-one berating SA about the ageist remarks.

And I really rather object to being guilt-tripped out of discussing a. ageism b. the problems in a retail institution c. my own experience as a customer by having that conflated with abuse of staff.

Discussing the on-record remarks of senior personnel, along with the presumably long-term retail strategy, of a company is not analogous to wishing for people to lose their jobs.

I hate to be a downer but, seriously, what do you expect? A whole load of sheeple to continue loyally buying BO-inducing, garishly patterned, marquee-like garments because we're supposed to behave nicely?

thecatfromjapan · 08/11/2017 12:19

Actually, that last post has me seething.

I've held off posting this but ...

"Great reputation for protecting workers"

Make that some workers.

One of my family worked for M and S. She was doing outsourced work - because, like most companies, M & S outsource a lot of the hidden labour.

You know all those tights you buy? Thery're all packaged by hand. they're tested - by hand - for runs and imperfections, carefully folded (to strict specifications) - by hand, they're then packaged - by hand. All to strict guidelines - with payment withheld if it isn't done correctly.

All for pennies - fractions of pennies. With RSI being the hidden cost for the packagers.

And, sure, M and S probably have better guidlelines for the treatment of those workers than some, and sure, it's probably more expensive to have that done in the UK than somewhere overseas with child labour. But make no mistake - it's still extraordinarily low-paid, hard-labour - and exploitative (even though, technically, people have a 'choice' about doing it).

It's about shades of exploitation.

I'm not sure I buy the "We must protect M & S at all costs by spending our money on horrible clothes - it's a kind of charity" line.

It isn't a charity. It's a business. Its business is selling stuff at a profit. The problem it currently has, at the moment, is that a lot of us don't want to buy the clothes it sells . That isn't a moral failing on our part. So please, with respect, don't try and guilt trip me into feeling as though it is.

RoseWhiteTips · 08/11/2017 12:34

CouldWouldaDidnt

The majority of the customer base simply won't or don't want to pay for quality, no matter what they say.

That is a sweeping statement. The prices for that range were ludicrous - not for Hobbs et al, as others have said, but for M&S. It is not that long ago that M&S produced garments that were of good quality, in natural fibres, for a reasonable price. That is the point.

Oh - and young people will never gravitate towards M&S so those who are responsible for running the show should get real.

CouldWouldaDidnt · 08/11/2017 12:46

Wow. You seem very angry.
I can only apoligise if I caused any offence.
It certainly wasnt my intention.
I will hold my hands up and say i did not hear the start of the conversation but in my eyes that definitley seemed to be what it was about.
If I got it wrong I am sorry.
She really did speak to her appallingly though.
I have no reason to lie about that really? People can and do speak to assistants poorly.
Equally I receive poor service in buisnesses in shops etc its par the course in retail.

I have worked for the company for over 25 years I have seen things I doubt anyone would believe to be honest.
Including 2 women arguing over sprouts at xmas and a woman strip to her underwear in a protest at the fitting room being shut.
Seriously.

No ones guilt tripping you. I hardly expect you to go running into a local branch of M&S with your basket and buy moderately priced cashmere to keep anyone in a job.

Its hardly worth seething about.

As a company it can and does get things spectaculary wrong at times its frustrating as I said when you slog your guts out to do it right each day, and this...

I guess uts just disheartening seeing another thread about its decline thats all.
Perhaps I am projecting. I thought I was
offering a counter balance.

I will.admit I got it wrong in doing that on this thread and so will bow out.

Have a virtual percy pig as a peace offering?
Everyone likes them right!

She dediitely didnt deserve to be spoken to the eay she did though. Honestly.

CouldWouldaDidnt · 08/11/2017 12:57

Thecat
I absolutely did not mean to guilt trip you.
I re read my post it looks exactly like thats what I was doing.

I wholeheartedly support what the OP said about his comments. They were awful!
As I said i think I am projecting my own stuff/ worries about the company and this thread is dedinitely not the place.

For anyone wanting to get their point across to M&S please do tweet or facebook any comments. They monier those social media platforms the most and you are more likely to get a response than writing ime.

I hope they do read this tbread for insight.

I

thecatfromjapan · 08/11/2017 13:03

Well, here's the thing, Could, your posts do slightly come across as slightly manipulative - which feeds into the whole feeling of being patronised and taken for granted (and assumed to be really rather stupid) by those steering the direction of travel for M and S.

As someone who had a hand in the 'Best of British' thing, I'm guessing that you must be fairly senior by now (even though you've stated here, on the internet, where no-one can check anything) and it's hard not to read those posts as taking part in an effort to shut down questioning amongst the M and S loyal.

I'm afraid I really don't like Percy Pigs. And I find being offered a virtual Percy Pig really rather twee.

I've a brain, and I'm old enough to dislike being patronised or manipulated - especially by someone who seems to be taking on the job as 'lovely, fluffy' representative of a company that trades on being a kind of retail-charity, whilst I know that they are not above exploiting workers for profit.

And a lot of your clothing really is - still - hideous.

millifiori · 08/11/2017 13:05

I was laughing at their cashmere only yesterday. If I'm going to spend £££ on cashmere, I'll go and get something timeless and classy from Jaeger not zinging with stripes in toddlers' primary colours. They have no idea what people want and no apparent interest in finding out.

thecatfromjapan · 08/11/2017 13:06

Oh, and watching someone you love struggle with shit-labour-induced-RSI can have the effect of making you angry when you hear someone waffling on about the great worker protection in the company they worked for (albeit, as outsourced labour).

On what planet would such anger be illegitimate? Hmm