🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Hot Snails, Summer in the City - Now with added shelf porn!

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I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. In order to make use of the below form and join in I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

NEW ADDITIONS since last thread:

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

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If you pose a question and we need more contextual information to answer properly we may ask you to fill in the following form. Please only use this form when asked, unsolicited forms will be deleted. Responses to the form can be found here

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Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

AUGUST 2017: Sunscreen is pretty much non-negotiable at the moment (not that it’s ever not ), RL bumps have been met in the road for some, unfortunately. Grief sucks but we do our best to offer a bit of comfort even if it is just something as inane as skincare chat . Some of us are lucky enough to be nerding out in French pharmacies whilst pretending to do that holiday thing, the Shelf Porn Off is still on…

I can't believe we're on thread 9

Oh yes, I love the new handbags. Both look lovely and soft. After a couple of uses you'll relax with it bo. Make yourself take it out tomorrow.

You take your bag out and I'll make a hair app,

Thanks Bo.
I'll trial the nia first in a 10 days or so. Some have commented that it can cause breakouts but others have had a good effect so we'll see.

JDSTER what BHA are you using? I have a travel size of the skin perfecting 2% bha. It seems like you have similar skin to me. Mine is probably oily /combination as there is a very small patch of normal skin (or less oily) on my jaw, though I do get spots there.

Nimisha I bought clear extra strength 2% BHA - travel size. I've had other versions in the past but thought I'd try this one. So far so good. My fingers were sore last night from all the typing so couldn't put down everything I'm using but I've been using TO niacinamide/zinc which hasn't impressed me. I got it based on niacinamide being a good ingredient for pores- I don't have acne. I can't say it's made any difference but hasn't broke me out. Won't be repurchasing.

I come bearing exciting news! Easyparapharmacie (and other French pharmacy sites) now have the new Toleriane Cleanser in stock! link here, cheaper at Cocooncenter though. No sign of the moisturiser yet but I have to assume they'd want to roll that out before winter is here. Am a bit concerned about the fate of the Dermo cleanser though, Powersante (I shop there when I need a lot as there's always a 10% discount going but shipping is high, but never mention them as for the UK there's no free shipping like with EPP) have reduced the double pack of Toleriane Dermo 2x400ml to practically the price of one.

I've managed to read the article and am a bit at the so called consulted 'experts', mostly as they're so forcefully framed as leading experts when they're all facialists at best (some training yes, but the quality of it doesn't really stack up against that of a skin therapist or dermatologist). Also the love of oils and claiming that her £87 oil made for a cheap routine is a bit dodgy. I like an oil but I know it's a controversial product within skincare circles (dermatologists generally despise them as a standalone product) and that it's only ever a temporary fixer.

I experience the same, user. People have a non-existant routine or an over the top one with more products than I'll ever buy in my lifetime. I think there used to be a bit of middle ground with the selling of 'systems' that had people brand loyal for a very long time but that market share seems to really have fallen to the wayside. The article did pick up on the SM overdrive with bloggers constantly spewing them at their audience and pushing of product through confusion well in that regard.

You didn't do anything bad, mint, think it was about this time last year you had a 'what's your skincare routine' thread going and that did turn into a bit of competitive sport as Enid mentioned with everyone and their 20-gazillion step routines vs. 'my nan never used anything more than a bit of soap and she looked 14 at 96'. Though I think that's pretty much MN in a nutshell. When I try to explain it to others I usually go with the analogy that it's like a masqued ball on here. In the extremes that tend to characterise most threads, everyone is either pretending to be something they're not/who they aspire/wish they were or they're exactly who they are, armed with PA, as they can pretend it's an act or an exaggeration whilst being a bit of a cunt without normal (long lasting) societal repercussions to such behaviour.

user, I use a Japanese HA toner that comes in giant bottles (500ml or a liter) that I decant into a spray bottle. I can look up the name later if you're interested in a cheaper alternative to the Hand Chemistry Body spray.

Bagel, 96 snail mucin generally well-liked on the AB Reddit but I often read of people mixing it in with something else (the AB Reddit users definitely have a product overload issue so you tend to see this a lot). Think it should be ok for sensitive skin but I have read a few about horrible cystic breakouts (again AB Reddit where they also have the most bizarre skin ingredient intolerances).

Bani, yeah that's why I wondered whether combo/oily would get on with it. It's like bam, end of routine, don't bother it'll sit there till morning. Memory may be failing me here, but Gothamista mentioned the Stratia liquid gold (caught my attention as it has the right Ceramide, Cholesterol, Lipid ratio plus seabuckthorn which is good for the rosaceacs on here) in her latest video, I vaguely recall you'd bought that, or am I confusing you with someone else?

Super stormy here today (weather warnings and everything), Enid, so terrible day for a baptism for my bag baby but maybe tonight when I'm going out shopping with a friend, the weather is supposed to lay down late this afternoon. Don't you lot have Treatwell as well in the UK? They only recently started doing hairdressers here recently but I have found the reviews on them useful (in so far, that the salons I've visited and loathed were marked down as such).

she looked 14 at 96

I was dubious about the 'experts' they quoted too. They're the same ones they always wheel out, I think they just text their mates for a quick quote.

I missed the info on this new cleanser. Is it supposed to be 'better'. Hope they don't do away with the dermo one.

I've never heard of Treatwell but a google shows it is in the cities here. Not sure what it is yet...

Mumsnet is a strange old place alright, I don’t have kids (had never even heard of MN up to about a year ago) and I only post on this thread, but from reading the other boards (especially AIBU) child rearing seems like a rather savage competitive sport with no middle ground. Same with skincare, weight loss, weddings, cooking and driving and a host of other things. I do enjoy reading from time to time but doubt I’ll ever post anywhere outside of here.

Bo I would be interested in the name of the HA toner, and thanks Miffy I’ll look into the HC hyaluronic gel as well. Their spray is an aerosol and it’s very hard to tell how much has gone, it seems like it’s empty but keeps on spraying so maybe not be as £££ as I thought. Still keen to explore some alternatives though as it will probably give up the ghost any day now.

JDSTER I’m thinking of trying differin, I’ve seen it available from a few UK online pharmacies (that look legitimate) so thinking of taking the plunge, Caroline Hirons has written a review that makes me think it would be good for my skin type even if it doesn’t have any major anti aging effects. Can’t find retin A anywhere that doesn’t look fake or majorly dodgy so giving up on that idea.

I escaped travel group today for good mooch round Freiburg. Beautiful city if anyone's interested. Bought some Lavera body lotion and anti wrinkle (live in hope!) serum.

Found Annemarie Borlind stuff. Pricey but made 'with natural ingredients' in Black Forest. May investigate further as there again on Saturday. Any info, Bo?

Thanks for your last post - interesting! Not heard of 'Treatwell' either.

Well remembered Bo, I did buy the Stratia Liquid Gold but for my daughter. I’ve just tried a little of it, and it’s very nice but I haven’t used it enough to see any long term difference. But I don’t understand what you mean, did you mean it’d be good over the TO retinoid?

What morning moisturiser is everyone using?

Thanks Bo :-)

mint I'll answer in the form of a modified empties form

SEPTEMBER EMPTIES, TRIALS, AND PLANNED PURCHASES

EMPTIES:

TO advanced retinoid 2%. My second bottle. It's a decent product I think but the difference was scant so I'm moving to heavier stuff.
TO Niacinamide + zinc. I like this even though I can't pinpoint how much of a difference it makes. Have repurchased for the second time. It doesn’t break me out and it improves clarity.
L300 fresh hydration+ face cream. Have repurchased. Very inexpensive and often on offers here. Good solid hydrating cream. I might need heavier stuff in the winter but it’s ok for now.
Sample size of Bioeffect 30 day treatment. Do NOT bother. Still think the serum was very effective though.

PRODUCTS ON TRIAL:

TO granactive retinoid 5% in squalane. Since I patch test on my face I’ve used it two nights in a row already. Do see a slight slight smoothing and clarity immediately. Not sure I adore the squalane.
TO vitamin c in silicone. Since I patch test on my face I’ve used this two mornings now. Unsure of results. Very siliconey, feels hard to spread. Doesn’t react with my other stuff so no pilling anyway. Results will of course be uncertain and confused with the retinoid results haha.
TO alpha arbutin. It’s not empty but I don’t think I’ll repurchase. Didn’t see enough of a result, I’ll stick to the niacinamide.
TO serum foundation. Very pleased with this!
TO 30% glycolic and bha peel. Haven’t started using it. Will finish up:
TO lactic acid 10% first. I like this a lot but want to try something stronger for the winter. Will possibly repurchase, but the effects aren’t really that remarkable on my withered skin.
TO bha 2%: have seen some effect on pores so will use up. Bought:
PB bha 2% on offer from skincity so will try that first to compare.
COSRX oil free moisturising lotion with 70% birch sap. Really nice stuff. I use it as an extra layer not as sole moisturiser. Will probably repurchase. Got it from SkinId, Swedish webshop.
TO caffeine thingy: what is the point of this?

PLANNED PURCHASES:

Have an idea of getting some Benton snail bee sheet masks again. Also want to get a daily moisturiser with low spf but haven’t seen one that tickles my fancy yet. Would prefer tube to jar.

Mint I use Dr Jart Ceramidin cream but it's fragranced, and I think you would react? Can't remember if that's an issue for you....

I'm planning to buy some Belif True Cream Moisturizing Bomb to try as a winter moisturiser when I'm in the States but's that's mainly because Stephanie Nicole rates it and I've got a woolly coat and go "baaa"

Tsmummy yes unfortunately fragrance is a deal breaker for me.
I'm very happy with all of my products, it's just my morning moisturiser I'm still struggling with. I want something really hydrating but that melts into skin with no residue or shine! No fragrance or spf as I like my avene anti ageing spf which I use over the top.

If L300 is sold near you it’s definitely worth a look then mint!

I'll check it out thanks banivani

Tsmummy LOL at the sheep reference :)

I have a question. For years I had dry, sahara dry, sensitive skin. With scaly patches (side of nose, behind ears) and outbreaks of seborrheic dermatitis Until I got my act together and sorted it out (plus I matured and obviously that changes your skin). I would have considered my skin to be in the normal to dry band in the last decade.

BUT. I now have terribly visible pores on my nose, chin and small areas of my cheeks. And I am not happy. I would have steered clear of anything acne/spot/breakout/pore related since the days when I used stinky clearasil on my teenage spots. So, do I need to use BHA (that gal Paula's stuff) on the pores? Is it even worth trying anything at this stage? I don't use silicone-based primers, I would prefer to tackle th problem at source. Is PC or TO a good place to start for spot (pardon the pun) treatment?

Don't think I can get the L300 banivani it doesn't seem easily available in uk. Thanks for the rec tho

From what I gather from Dr. Sam and the printed press she mentions being in, she really only lends her name and expert opinion to articles that are highly positive about derms (and often v. critical of bloggers and facialists), as well as the pared back slow going skincare routines (but the versions derms would approve of) and the only other consulted other experts tend to also be derms but usually with different specialisations (she's always the acne expert, others will be anti-ageing, laser, etc.). 'Famous' facialists seem to be much less selective when it comes to attaching their names to such articles, I'm unaware of the others in that article but I can say that the type of routine advocated there doesn't match the CH approach to skincare, it overlaps in places and whilst she does boast the double cleanse invention a lot, her USP and reason for her following has always been acids and overly complex and costly routines which that article definitely tries to dissuade people from, albeit tepidly.

The new cleanser is the one that was only available in the US until recently, Enid. Both Dr. Sam and Dr. Dray have liked and recommended it, similar to the Cerave hydrating cleanser apparently. A few on here have it/are trialling it.

user, the first thing I noticed about MN (previously unknown to me too) is that whilst it's advertised as a parenting site it really isn't much of one. I think the top 5 boards are AIBU, Chat, Relationships, S&B, and Conception (at least, I think they had a ranking displayed like that when I joined). Being a parent is sort of the loose common denominator but it's not really the determining one, it's not a constant gushing about children and how adorable they are (which is what I had determined it would be by the name alone). I've always known parenting can be a competitive sport but only if you're sensitive to that. I think like any forum it attracts a higher % of introverts and those on the spectrum who have quite a high level of social anxiety (ie. their inability to know how to act in social situations makes the opinions of others about them and their children far weightier) but who are very comfortable expressing themselves online and in the written word, at the opposite end MN also seems to attract the type-A personality mums who tend to excel in most areas of life but may find the unpredictability of parenting challenging as there just isn't a how-to book for it and that vulnerability doesn't always sit well with them. So in my completely unexpert non-scientific backed cockamamie theory on MN there are a lot of boasters that do so to mask their own inability to accept shortcomings and then that behaviour is mimicked as the norm. In direct opposition to that unachievable threshold, you'll see the extreme under-boasting like it's a point of pride, people who eat piles of food vs. two bits of lettuce and hummus, people who declare to live in pig-styes in direct opposition to the extreme cleaners. It makes for an interesting mix, someone obviously not me really should do an anthropological study on MN, or at the very least a parody version.

It's the CEZANNE Skin Conditioner High Moist btw, though some one the AB Reddit also like this one.

Selena, never tried it myself but it is an interesting one as it's a natural brand that isn't all about the essential oils. They do research everything properly rather than just artisanally cooking up little potions in a cauldron in the Black Forest and it's mostly plant extract based. I remember Freiburg from the travels down to Italy through Switzerland, always made the next stop in Basel (which I swear is the most depressing place ever) seem extra dreary. Hope you're having a lovely time.

Thanks Bani, no I meant just as a moisturiser for winter, can't put anything over the retinoid myself, don't see the point. Quick extra question as she seems to have some other products of interest, did you have to pay import taxes? I think DK has a really low threshold so figured SE does too, the LG would be just under our threshold but anything additional would mean evil import taxes, figured she may be marking things as gift or undervalue, possibly hopefully, maybe?

Tsnmummy, Belif is much cheaper if you order from S. Korea. You can even get little sample jars that are beyond adorable. I've been hearing good things about the eye cream water bomb too.

It's not dehydration or age, miffy? BHA, I still rate Paula's stuff as the best, 2% Perfecting Liquid if the issue is pores but not everyone has the same amazing results with it. No opinion on TO version but price/ml comes out the same or more expensive than PC and supposedly it's a bit more viscous (spot control) so won't last as long.

Thank you so much bo. I bought a sample pack from PC a while ago so i will check and see if there is a sample of the 2% in it (still all unused as i didn't really know why I bought it...a totally new brand to me).

I guess I was hoping the retinoids/vitamin c/azelaic acid would sort out the pores as well as everything else! Not to worry, happy to add another To Be Discovered item to my list. :)

Just a thought, does BR P50W do similar work on pores? I currently use it x2 per week. Should I use it more often and see if it has any effect on my pores (or is it totally different to the PC? Sorry for all the questions!)

miffy, IME P50 does a better job of it (which for me means no need for a separate BHA) as that has straight up BHA instead of the milder salicylate version the other P50s have. You can definitely try using it more often and see if it helps and maybe try P50 full strength (provided skin can handle it) when that's finished, or if you want I can send you a decant to try?

Which reminds me, Emma, I'm taking that as it arrived safely? You're welcome, I'm happy to be able to send it off to an appreciative home

mint, before I forget again, I'm not using any AM moisturiser at the moment just HA + SPF, looking at several options at the moment but probably will be the Benton one for winter but I think you want an oil-free one, right? Can you do Dimethicone? Kiehl's had one I used a long time ago, it was a bit of an odd one with clay but it's very light and mattifying, it's the Rare Earth Pore Minimizing Lotion.

I'm here but grumpy and therefore lurking as opposed to posting. 30lbs down and it's getting harder to lose now and I have 21lbs to go

I had a quick look at the Red magazine article when I was out shopping today. IIRC they mentioned something about use of acids etc causing broken capillaries is that right? I definitely have a few around my nose I didn't have previously but I thought it was an age related thing. The article seemed to suggest we are being too harsh (I also know it was facialists and beauty editor commenting but I did wonder if there's any truth in it?)
Enid I've got the new LRP cleanser. I'm nearly finished dermo cleanse so I'll report back.
miffy I've got visible pores. I'm not sure that BHA has made a huge difference but then again they might be worse without it and I definitely feel I've missed a good BHA so I'm back on Paula's choice. I do use primers but I find makeup goes on better with one.

bo I’ve been very lucky with my internet shopping so far and haven’t been hit by customs. However I don’t remember if my Stratia package was under a threshold, just missed or marked as gift... I don’t think marked as gift. She’s a serious person who doesn’t mess with stuff like that. ;) like Chel from Holy Snails.

Stratia’s Alli was on a podcast I heard once and it was really interesting. I can recommend it to anyone interested in the science of skincare, very accessible programme. www.balanceoutthebad.com/home/skincare-part1