Fantastic Skincare - we're snail here 🐌

[botemp]

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. In order to make use of the below form and join in I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Basics of an Actives Routine

Where to Start

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one and the linked docs) so we're not being asked to answer previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us . Please note, the form is not here to generate a routine for you, sometimes it involves product recommendations but mostly it's there so we can answer a specific question without having to go back and forth endlessly. Also, not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

---

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

Enid what do u use as your hydrating serum/toner? I know ur sensitive to ha and although I'm ok with it in a moisturiser I seem to have negative effects with it as a serum

Anyone got any thoughts on face theory clarifying cleanser (c2)?

usedup and an unmumsnetty hug. for your colleagues Olli, it must be an especially difficult time for them now, not that it's an easy job any other day.

Thanks eversions and otyt for the input, I sort of assumed WP would be the easiest and if I understand it correctly the .org isn't unlike .com in functionality and use, just not as locked down so I shouldn't have any issues using it. Just wondering how much scope it has, eg. I hate than on WP.com it's impossible to jump to an anchor, create your own layout, and other basic functional website things, or it's only possible with huge workarounds. Did you build your own template then, otyt, or simply heavily modify an existing template?

The concerns with security are more anecdotal, I know of someone who had a ransomware situation with their site specifically, and also ads spreading viruses on it on several occasions. It's not even a heavy traffic site (just contains a lot of junk) and it's professionally managed on the IT end. I actually suspect all the problems (several other functional issues) are down to that professional management but I've been sensible enough not to intermingle in other people's pile of shit business. Another had their site built by the same person and also experiences a lot of problems but it's more functional than security.

mintleaves, I think TO somewhat neglects to inform who their products are formulated for. Their Nia really is good for oily/combo skin but they tend to list all the great things Nia (the ingredient) can do for all skin types. There's other products that will do it better for dry skin. Their HA has ended up on my black list as the people having issues with it are so numerous vs. the tiny minority that likes it ok. Don't know what it is about that specific product but it's not a great one.

C2 cleanser- I'm of the general opinion that it's a waste to have acids in a cleanser, you're not leaving it on long enough to do anything so you're basically washing it down the drain. BHA can sometimes be useful if you have particularly oily and inflamed skin (from use of topical prescriptions like Retin-A). That cleanser would only be of interest for someone with genuinely oily skin that is not inherently sensitive.

Since we're almost finishing up the thread again, figured I'd put this up for everyone's input. I'm toying with the idea of either overhauling the form or removing it altogether. The request have died down a bit, several factors will impact this (time of year, that we're on thread 7, etc.) but I like to think it's also down to the availability of the Info Sheets somewhat (but I have to be realistic that it'll be some time before I have all the most important basic topics covered).

I've answered far too many forms than I care to recount now, they were always set up to be able to answer questions and help people along with the necessary background info but a lot have simply become an 'I have no clue about skincare, just give me a routine and I'll be off' request. I'd still like things to be accessible for people with genuine issues that don't really follow the general narratives but I'm struggling with how to best alter/change the situation as it is. I can either make the forms more difficult eg. have them make a proposed plan of changes/routine instead of participants on the thread, it demonstrates they've read up and took it all in and we can basically troubleshoot/suggest alterations rather than being the entire answer.

However, the threshold to use the form (which is already high for some I suspect and admittedly worsened when my patience is tested and I get snippy) would vastly increase, possibly making the form obsolete in the end and run the risk to reverting to the issue of questions getting lost in the thread or having to perform the function of the form in several back and forths. I don't want to chase off new blood but it should be a bit more manageable.

I've contemplated setting up 'routine sheets with product recs' but I have several concerns about them as it goes against the whole thought process of learning to understand ingredients and catering a specific routine to your specific concerns. It would also mean MN loses out on affiliate sales which I feel would be unfair when the traffic comes from their platform primarily.

So... thoughts?

Sorry for the delay, I did reply last night and then tried to add a picture and lost it all! So decided to try again today!!

Botemp I can see my pores on my nose and around my cheeks, not over all my cheeks just the bit under my eyes (if that makes sense). They look quite open I think and the texture looks quite bumpy there. I feel like this is an age related thing as they are definitely getting more noticeable as I get older? I will add a very very unflattering picture underneath this post to try and show you what I mean. I think they are empty.
If I add heavy creams to my face I don't feel like they really absorb, just kind of sit on the surface and make me look shiny. Not sure if that is normal? After cleansing my face usually feels quite tight and when I move my face it feels like it is cracking.
I work with children and find myself overemphasising my facial expressions a lot, which I guess also adds to the aging process!!

I have read your info sheets and I will try and put a better routine together, are there any specific product ranges you could recommend? I will take my time as you suggest and hopefully slow down the aging process a bit, I just feel like suddenly my skin is
looking a lot older!

I will also give Laura Mercier a try, I am away in Leeds at the weekend so hopefully I will be able to route out some good beauty ranges. We are a bit limited where I live!

EnidButton I will also have a look for the Lancôme foundation you suggest. And thank you for the YouTube suggestion!!

Thank you everyone for your help, and I know it is probably really frustrating getting these questions from newbies but I really do appreciate it. I just feel like I would go up to any beauty counter and buy whatever they tell me I need without having any clue whether it would actually benefit me. So I really do appreciate your help and advice x

Prepare for awful selfie coming soon...

Here is the best pic i could get of my pores for Botemp ... Sorry to everyone else

Hmmm...re forms...completely see where you're coming from here...not many us have graduated to answering them fully, apart from you bo though I do know many regular posters here can and do try to give an initial response/welcome/answer a specific question....I'm not really sure what the answer is here...I think you are right when you say it's not intended to be an abc, follow this, do this, buy this...and most of us who've stayed on here want to try to learn for ourselves, with some ongoing support...(so like many of the early birds, I've never filled one in) but there'll always be people who just want to come get some 'instruction' then leave...I suppose you could still encourage newcomers to read the sheets (as you do already) and not make the form generally available unless someone first reads the sheets, goes off and tries to put some routine in place, then has some specific questions/needs...and is then given a form. I don't know, I guess the real problem is that the main burden of answering the forms lies with one person....sorry, not massively helpful but just my initial thoughts. If anything comes to me, I'll post back.

bo jumping to anchors should be do able in WP.com... though I've never used it so I don't know. Layouts can be done in a few ways with WP.com.

I build custom WP themes for clients at work, it's what I do most and what I'm supposed to be doing right now.

You could put the form in a sheet but I suppose people would just ask questions with out it.

You've reminded me to sort out some skin stuff for my brother as I'm going to see him again soon.

PS if you could all do me a favour and stop using internet explorer, that would be great

My PC Azelaic has arrived. It. Is. Tiny.

I have also ordered some Neostrata Retinol. It was very ££. I really didn't like the Face Theory one but I'm not ready to give up on Retinol completely. Having done some research I decided to try Neostrata. I will keep you posted.

Re the forms, I agree with yong. I don't think you/we should give people actual routines to follow. I'd like this thread to continue in the spirit in which it was intended; help those who want to learn for themselves.

I'm sorry I don't answer many forms. I don't have the knowledge. I do often think there are basic things I can help with (like washing face in shower for example) but I am often catching up on my phone (especially since going back to work) and I think "oh, I'll reply later" and then someone else, helpfully, has.

And I can't believe this is the 7th thread!!

Bo I just looked at your sheet. They're fantastic! Just a quick question - in the table for the 30s and beyond routines you've not mentioned acid toning - do you mean AHA/BHA in the morning?

These sheets will be so helpful; I hope those seeking help will actually read them!

Shop how are u getting on with the replacement face theory night cream?

Bo I can't see the forms and would love to have a read - where are they please?

*sheets

I'll happily ban internet explorer when I rule the web or the world, take your pick, otyt Mostly on the back of the stupid insistence of certain sites using Silverlight.

I think anchors only work on .com through a lot of loopholes or only if you upgrade to the package that allows some minor customisation, I vaguely remember wasting an afternoon on it before deciding what a waste of time it was.

I can't remember Pupsie! I'll have to look it up and see, I tend to release these sheets somewhat prematurely despite my own urges not to so it at least stands as a bridge before I put it in a more permanent place and add fancy diagrams, etc. to make it more digestible so it's highly likely possible I've messed up somewhere

They're in the OP, Dulci, and the most recent one (not in OP) is Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

I had considered moving the copy paste form in the OP to a Google Form that sends a copy to an email address from which they can then copy paste it onto the thread. I'd have a nifty Google Sheet so I wouldn't need to bother keeping files manually anymore.

Whilst that would ease up my workload and make it easier for mobile users, I have to take in account that the average not so tech savvy user is the norm on the internet and will simply think that filling in the form will mean they'll get an email with a routine despite all the accompanying text stating it isn't the case. I've already had plenty of people PM me with a form (most I couldn't even reply to since they had the default don't allow PMs on ) and I also fear a more 'professional' looking form will further depersonalise the process and make people forget there's a person/people at the other end of it for whom it costs time. Another point of concern would be that I'd be collecting data that ties together MN usernames and email addresses, not everyone is savvy enough about this or has throwaway emails for these things, and I'm not all that informed about how safe Google sheets are.

I was talking about it with a friend who thinks it's insane that I do this for free despite my reservations that I feel it would be insane to charge for something I'm not professionally trained in/working in. She rightly pointed out that when you give something away for free, people no longer see the true value in it. I can't flaw her argument, so it's been annoyingly plaguing my mind lately. I won't be moving to charging for these things but it is forcing me to reassess a process that whilst not ideal I've probably left to stand unchallenged for too long.

I agree that I/we shouldn't be creating routines for people and I've certainly been attempting to move away from that over the last several weeks (unless it was very specific and complicated I steer away from giving product recs in the form of a routine giving general guidelines for the types of thing to look at instead, referring to info sheets, etc.) but there are issues with that.

I'm just going to take Well as an example (nothing against you specifically, you're just the most recent example of a typical newbie and there's nothing against your presence or questions here and you appear to have the right attitude towards all this, so do not worry).

Well came in with a limited form that was representative of a minimal routine. It's difficult to answer so further questions have to be asked back and forth as at this stage Well isn't very knowledgeable about her own skin or the best products for it. General advice and referrals are given but at this point, Well, quite understandably as this is the default problem/solution narrative around beauty products, asks what specific products/ranges she should be using. I have two options:

1. Write up a routine of products, hope Well actually listens to the advice to be patient and introduces things gradually but accept that at this point worst case scenario, Well simply sails off into the sunset, visits the nearest Boots and buys everything at once and slaps it all on her face and hope there are no adverse reactions. Best case scenario, Well adheres the advice for caution and taking things slowly and uses the thread to keep up with progress and troubleshoot. Along the way, she hopefully picks up some tips she wasn't specifically looking for and gains a better understanding of skincare in its parts rather than the problem/solution narrative. However, at first this still very much plays into 'Bo's word is gospel' and doesn't encourage much self-education except in the very small group that sticks around.

1. Give a nudge in the direction for things to look at, probably frustrating Well in the process because at that newbie stage where everything surrounding skincare is extra confusing you need some sort of anchor and in the beginning that usually is product as it's familiar whereas all these ingredients are still a mythical minefield. Some other posters might chime in, saying what products have or haven't worked for them. Well will try to scramble together some sort of routine with a high degree of insecurity, may accidentally buy the wrong products due to wording (the famous Toleriane Fluid vs. Toleriane Ultra Fluide, the Anthelios line is very big, etc.) then either has issue with these products or when reporting back on what she's bought we gently point out she's wasted money on the wrong things and Well might very well become dissuaded and give up altogether.

Neither option is ideal, and I feel theoretically the onus and initiative should be leveraged on the one asking for help, practicalities and experience so far vastly limit it. I fear that by making it harder on newbies we'll scare them away and close off the thread to regulars only which will probably slow it down and make it go stale eventually. The influx of newbies actually helps keep the momentum and allows us to tackle different issues, keeping the thread active and diverse. It would be a shame to lose that. I'm thinking tackling the wording in the intro would be helpful, putting more emphasis on, as Pupsie aptly put it, 'help those who want to learn for themselves.'

Oops... I'll own up, I haven't read an OP in this series for some time. Reading now. Thank you.

I for one would definitely be interested in learning more for myself. I assume that there will come a point when Bo gets fed up of doing this thread, or is no longer available for a while, or whatever. And i know that my skin has improved dramatically over the last several months & I feel it's made a real difference to my life (massive thank you, BTW!). I've followed a couple of the YouTubers & bloggers mentioned but I'd like to know more. I want to educate myself, ideally. I'm not very tech savvy & don't use instagram, for example, should I learn, would it help?

Ok, read through them now. ITA with others that they're great - loads of information and I hope they'll be useful to people. How long did they take you?!

Re the form, I also agree with Pups and yong that this thread should be about education rather than instruction. I totally understand the rationale behind the form but I do wonder if it's impacted on expectations and made it a bit transactional, ie "I filled the form out so now you tell what to do". Everyone's got experiences and advice to share, and Bo I know you're by far the most knowledgeable here, but ultimately none of us are truly experts in this.

More broadly, Bo, I'm hugely uncomfortable with the way that thousands of people take CH's often dubious and unqualified advice completely unquestioningly, and then bitch when/if the latest CultBeauty or Deciem offering it doesn't work out. The real issue for me is that I don't want your generosity with your time and knowledge to lead to a similar backlash. This should be fun for everyone, surely, and I don't want you to stop enjoying and sharing what you're clearly passionate about. Unless of course you want to monetise it - in which case the very best of luck to you - but I haven't had the impression that that's the gameplan.

Enough rambling for now; I hope I've made sense.

So I hit post and then realised exactly what I was trying to say, typical

This thread isn't about offering a "service", it's just a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. The more it looks like a "service" the less inclined I think people will be to critically engage.

I may be thinking too much about this. I work in education and am finding a lot of resonances between the current conversation here and the ones at work! :)

I also want to echo Dulci's words and agree that this should by about people educating themselves though asking questions and figuring out what works for them and their skin. Your cheat cheats are excellent Bo and I think they will be a very helpful aid to newbies and existing users alike. I think the Newbie Form is useful in terms of getting all information about skin and routine and issues upfront but yes, it does turn it to 'can I have a routine, bye'. I think the thread should be more advice and chat than a service

On a fluff note what are people's opinions on a skin tracker device? I've seen this pop up for sale but £150?? https://www.skinid.se/collections/wayskin/products/the-way-donut

I've seen a blogger demo this on Instagram and it does come with an app to track and chart skin hydration and UV levels but I would find it hard to justify that price. Maybe as these type of things increase in popularity price will decrease. I would love to be super nerdy and see which products have the best effect on my skin though

Oooooh nerdy gadget! I expect to to tell me my skin is dry dehydrated AF

The thing is re actually learning about the different actives etc is that a) it helps you get to know our skin and b) our skin will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, with hormonal changes, with ageing, with genetics etc. So it's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing its changes. I also like newbies coming in because I am still learning and also new products are coming out all the time and that newbie environment I think gives these an opportunity for an airing if that makes sense. I have to say too that I do feel irked when OPs just want a quick fix. Wouldn't that be wonderful. But no, spend the time reading the stuff people (thank you Bo) have taken the trouble to post here.

*helps us to get to know our skin.

mint the replacement arrived and thankfully is the same as the first one I bought so straight back to HG status lol. I emailed to give feedback and they advised they'd had a problem with production and taken steps to make sure it couldn't happen again.

My Neostrata retinol arrived today along with a sample of Heliocare SPF50 gel. Where have I heard that name? On here on on a blog/vlog somewhere?

100% agreed, Pupsie.

I think the Heliocare is a Dr Sam rec?