Fantastic Skincare - Snail Optional 🐌

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether previous threads are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

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Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

So bo are u saying that avene extremely gentle cleansing lotion is good? I've scrolled through the thread and can't find the relevance of u mentioning it along with the inci. Am on my last bottle of ultracalming cleanser so wondering whether to replace with the avene, unless I've got this completely wrong and ur saying the avene one is crap??

Bo I've just discovered the sunscreen I'm using on my face is a body lotion - oops! m.lookfantastic.com/la-roche-posay-anthelios-body-lotion-spf30-250ml/11393011.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&thg_ppc_campaign=71700000008970312&gclid=CIaA_daR5dICFcm6Gwod1FoCSQ&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CLLZhdeR5dICFdQh0wodibcKKQ I am currently using it instead of moisturiser due to the issues with FaceTheory, I really need a proper moisturiser!

Mary - still happy to try it :)

Hi all

I just wondered how long your trial a product for before assessing its effectiveness (or otherwise)?

I've been trying TO Nia for about two weeks and I don't think it's making a discernible difference so far, but perhaps I haven't given it enough of a chance? I seem to remember Gothamista saying in a video that TO recommend use for a few months to see effect, but I can't find the recommendation on their website and am wondering if I've misremembered..

you not 'your'

Just popping on to say hi after a v busy weekend...

Bo yes I love the Active Formulas vitamin C serum - on my second bottle and will undoubtedly repurchase, it's great stuff :) and thanks for the Eucerin feedback, will stick with what I've got for the time being.

Now back to reading all the pages I've missed!

mint I'm afraid I'm quite unscientific about it and might just go through a bottle max before I swap to something else. 😔

Aaghh not keeping up even slightly.
mintmagnum what bo said about matrixyl and ha....will post back on any differences I notice if you like...not initially noticing major differences of use but only just swapped out.
hollin those boots!!!!!!! And pity me from next week onwards, I haven't ridden for 18mths!! Am going to be actually bed-ridden afterwards...Epsom salts, arnica and painkillers at the ready...eek
bo the daughter is veering towards purple for The New One...DH thinking red...I am fancying boring old dark green or navy....and there is a whole new market waiting for you on getting a horse's colours done, believe me!!!!

The salon culture is interesting, banivani. I've seen a lot of Polish beauty salons open up down in The Hague where there's quite a large Polish population. The amount of maintenance and time almost 'required' does seem substantial and suitably they'll do just about anything in those salons (and from my casual observation they do it a lot quicker) where most Dutch salons tend to specialise in one thing (skincare, hair, nails, etc.) with maybe a bit of the others but one specialisation very much being the focus.

I've been meaning to get to the CosRx Holy Snail Mask for forever now, it's just sitting in the closet waiting for me but in all honesty I've become quite slack about masking . I'm not really a fan of the cooler sensation on my face in winter.

Yes, that's the idea JDSTER. I know people have been pushing for a blog or something like it but it's proving a lot of work. Mostly since everything I post on MN stops being mine from that point so I have to rephrase things but I'd probably have to that anyway to make it legible outside of a thread context. Making it available in docs is a good interim solution I think. Also the input you guys always have can enrich them that way too.

mint/jo, no that was in response to JDSTER's question in response to something I wrote in the Sunday Supplement about surfactants good for blackhead/SF maintenance/clearing. I don't know what the Avene cleanser is like, I'm looking into it because of its use of a specific surfactant but have since discovered it's changed formulation (it used to be Decyl Glucoside, now it's Coco Glucoside which aren't the same but may work the same).

mintleaves, it depends per ingredient. Retinol takes months to truly assess results but on average 6-8 weeks. Though in the case of Niacinamide at high % I'd say you'd need to see the effect a little sooner, but it depends what you're using it for. Skin brightening/evening and pore tightening is a quicker thing to see but pigmentation and its anti-inflammatory properties are a long haul game.

How often do you use the Vit C Tsmummy08? They say once a week on account of the low pH, ideally I like Vit C on the daily but that may just be a mindset of being used to using on the daily...

yongnian, whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? The 'H' in HoC doesn't stand for 'horse'? Knowing how much people love their horses I actually wouldn't be surprised for that to be an extremely lucrative business. Although Horses of Colour sounds vaguely racist

@MaryLennoxsScowl , I’ve found this article on Vitiligo very useful. It’s a bit advanced with all the technical terms but still very readable.

The general gist that I take away from it, leave the Vitiligo alone beyond sun protection (I’d definitely discuss any form of active use with a specialist wrt to that area). Skincare should be pretty pared back, avoiding the common irritants, especially fragrance and essential oils/fragrant compounds. Of note is the advice of avoiding PEGs (polyethylene glycols - easily identified in INCIs as PEG #), they are quite abundant in cheaper skincare so will take some more care to avoid especially since brands that avoid them tend to reside in the ‘natural’ camp which often feature potentially irritating essential oils/plant extracts. The Ordinary definitely utilises PEGs here and there including the Buffet but this doesn’t really prove a direct correlation to your reaction as the PC BHA (which just appears to be ineffective) contains a few PEGs too.

Though it should be noted that the PEG discrimination in that article may just come as a general discrimination from that author this article explains the reason why one might want to avoid them or not.

Azelaic is singled out and was what I was thinking was probably the best approach for you too. There’s not much choice wrt Azelaic, TO version is PEG free, as is the PC Resist Anti-Aging Skin Transforming Multi-Correction Treatment with Azelaic Acid + BHA. Alternatively, seeking out a prescription for it which probably shouldn’t be too hard with your diagnosis.

From the article other actives to contemplate:

Vitamins: They are an essential component in cosmetic preparations for the vitiligo skin care. From a present-day perspective, vitamin A (retinol), B2 (riboflavin), B3 (niacin), provitamin B5 (D-panthenol), vitamin B12 (cobalamin), C (ascorbic acid) und E (tocopherol) are of specific interest in this context as they participate in redox reactions.

While that doesn’t exclude the use of Vit C and Retinol it may be sensible to consult your GP/Derm about first with the more potent actives like Retinol and L-AA Vit C.

So in terms of what you’re using now the ones containing PEGs have been ineffective or irritating so aren’t too much of a bother to remove. I believe the UB cleansing oil contains fragrance (or at the very least fragrant compounds). Normally I mention the Clinique TTDO balm but this too contains PEGs, the DHC cleansing oil is oft brought up as an alternative but can be on the stripping side. The Muji Sensitive Cleansing Oil (not the mild!) is a good alternative albeit a bit more effort to obtain.

In terms of exfoliation the article only mentions very gentle physical exfoliants and gentle fruit acids (so think those powder enzyme powders rather than full on glycolic in high strength). Though it’s not mentioned on there, it may be worth looking into PHAs but it would also be something I’d discuss with a derm/GP first. The Missha Pads (still have yet to order to fully assess) may be of interest.

Regardless of whether your sunscreen was meant for face or body I would suggest you look into something else. I think if you have a condition like Vitiligo or Melasma it warrants the maximum protection sunscreens year round ie. SPF50+ with the highest available PPD ratings. I know dermatologists always prefer physical UV filters for conditions like Melasma and Rosacea (though beyond sensitisation issues I haven’t really found a decisive argument in favour of it that aren’t linked to hunches or their practice experience). Primarily I’d be looking at the Bioderma Photoderm range for a chemical (the ultra fluide) or the mineral one.

@WanderingNotLost , I can see that you and your skin are in confused territory. To me it sounds as if you’re normal/combination with dehydration rather than dry. I think initially it’s best to focus on good cleansing habits, ditch the wipes, micellars, and scrubs as they really aren’t helping your skin. The first two are ineffective and the latter is too aggressive bringing it all to a rather unhinged balance. The Kieh’s toner, whilst not damnable, probably isn’t helping either.

So I’d look into the Clinique TTDO balm/oil or if fragrance isn’t an issue the Body Shop Chamomile Cleansing Balm for a first cleanse. Then the LRP Toleriane Dermo for a second cleanse/AM cleanse.

Then focus on getting a good moisturiser, a hydrating agent (possibly in the form of HA) and an SPF. When things are actually working well for you, then consider any form of actives (HA isn’t an active). (Standard recs apply: Eucerin UltraSensitive for combo skin, and either the Superdrug Simply Pure Hydrating Serum or one of the many Deciem offerings - when in doubt TO Buffet is usually the easiest option. For SPF most often touted SPFs on this thread will work for you but probably not the Biore Watery Essence).

I find the entire P&P line overhyped on the back of that documentary, mostly because the ingredient that’s proven to work (Matrixyl and Matrixyl3000) present in that is always the last or second to last ingredient on the few INCIs I can find, and they make it really hard to find those. But for now just finish it up and introduce an HA product alongside it to address the (suspected) dehydration and layer it underneath the P&P serum.

It’s probably best to discuss actives once you’ve adjusted to a new cleansing routine and reassess the exact state of your skin, is it still flakey and oily with spots, etc. and then report back here so we can help you further.

Wrt the Biore cleanser, I can’t see any irritants glaring out at me immediately that you don’t see in a lot of other products with the exception of Methylisothiazolinone (a preservative). A small % of the population react very strongly to it (hence why it’s being voluntarily phased out in the EU in leave-on products). What you experienced does sound more like an allergic reaction than a reaction to irritation. I don’t really have the time to check the other things you’ve been using but it’s worth checking if it’s in any other cosmetics, thus eliminating that was the ingredient that possibly caused the reaction or not.

Thanks yong I would like that please.

Oh I see bo,** I have tried the old formula of avene extra gentle and it was ok on my skin (not as good as my derm though) but I haven't tried the new formulation.

I'm running seriously low on my hylamide subq serum and still don't know whether to repurchase or try something else....

Also bo meant to ask if the niod naap you mentioned a while back would be good for sebaceous filaments?

Or maybe the face theory regenecalm serum....hmmmm

I haven't been around for a couple of days and I need to catch up but just wanted to say a HUGE thank you to Hollinhurst for mentioning the eon vouchers recently. Mine have just arrived and I've got £29 worth! I didn't know how it worked or how to cash them in and had no clue about their value so hadn't bothered with them. If you hadn't mentioned it I wouldn't have them now, some had already expired and the remaining ones were soon to follow. Will be spending at Boots very soon.
Thanks again.

I really wouldn't be attempting any form of Vit C and Retinol as present in the Regenecalm when your skin is still compromised mint/jo, more likely to do long-term harm than good.

NIOD NAAP has exfoliating properties and claims to do it better than BHA-AHA but I'm unfamiliar whether the formulations they use will deliver similar results in the way that BHA does for SF.

mint I'm hovering on the Regenacalm now - it's that or another bottle of TO retinol ;)

My skin is feeling tight so I need to do something about hydrating layers. Haven't got enough stuff. Oh such problems!

Good post by fanserviced-b on Sunday Riley Good Genes, including comments on the supposedly 40 % lactic acid concentration www.fanserviced-b.com/sunday-riley-good-genes-review/

160A4 yay! If you haven't spent them yet and you're planning on using them in boots, it might be worth checking when the next advantage point event is to get the most for your money

Thanks bani and bo.

The anti-inflammatory/pigmentation is what I'm looking for with the Nia so I shall persevere with it.

Bo I use vit C every other morning, when I've used Retinoid the night before, so 3-4 times a week. My face hasn't fallen off yet! But I've been using some kind of vit C several times a week for years so I'm probably used to it.... I'm using the 15% at the moment.

Just checking in under a new name, formerly goat (I got fed up of being a farmyard animal, cute as they are)

bo I've just looked at your sheets, they are brilliant. You really are so knowledgeable.

I've got a horrible swollen red lump/spot under the skin on my chin. It's bloody sore and it looks so unattractive having a swollen red chin I don't even know what to use to shift it so I'm just preserving with my normal routine and praying for an overnight miracle

NC here just popping in with an updated no makeup pic. Still looks uneven but I think better than it was

Thank you so much for the advice Bo!! I'm getting married in a few months so I really want lovely smooth clear skin, but I really didn't know where to begin. Will look into your suggestions pronto!

Olli (I've gotten so used to calling u hollin that seems weird lol) did u find anything to sort out ur scalp? And what conditioner and other shampoo are u using?