Fantastic Skincare - Snail Optional 🐌

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether previous threads are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

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Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

Vic It's LRP, cicaplast b5 Baume. I use it like a topical treatment I suppose. Just dab it onto any drying up spots or where a pink/red mark has been left by a spot and leave it over night. I don't rub it in as it contains Shea butter which can cause breakouts for me. I also use on a flaky patch on my nose on top of a serum and a bha. Used it on dry cuticles too. It's good stuff.

This one Vic www.boots.com/la-roche-posay-cicaplast-baume-b5-soothing-repairing-balm-40ml-10189518 Think it comes in two sizes so you can get the smaller one to start with (40ml).

Looks like Boots has an offer on LRP stuff at the moment for anyone interested. Although they might do a 3 for 2 offer again soon which is better value.

Ooh I've read about Cicaplast, thanks for the tip Enid

Would you recommend it as a topical spot treatment, or for soothing after a spot has dried out?

My usual topical spot treatment is Aesop control gel: www.aesop.com/uk/control.html

The tube is nearly finished so I can either replace it or try something new. Any recommendations from you expert ladies very much welcomed!

JD The conditioner was Colorphlex. A two step thing. Its supposed to be a dupe for the Olaplex that salons are using now.

I bought the sample size first which contained plenty for one use even with my thick long mop! I'd get that before you pay out for the bigger one because, although I really loved it, now I have the bigger size, I'm not seeing as good a result. Not sure why. Might just be because of that home hair colour disaster I did. 🙄 So I'd still recommend it, but try the sample size first... www.amazon.co.uk/Colorphlex-Hair-Color-Strengthening/dp/B00YNKGP02?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Ohhhh I love this thread!!!

Let me give you a tip that I came across recently..... Japanese knotweed aka polygonum cuspidatum taken orally- strong antioxidant and antiinflamatory ... I'm taking high dosage (it's safe non toxic) and last few days skin is glowing looks really fresh!!!

I ve been usin creme de la mer daily for years but that's the best product todate!

banana I use it once the spot is no longer 'active', so when it's at the crusty, dry, red stage but there's no nasties left in it. Also once that has gone I'm left with dark pink/red pigmentation and I dab it on that too and it fades it in at least half the time it used to take. Bo said it's probably the b5 in it that does that so I've ordered a toner containing b5 to try too.

JD Oh and I added the first step to a hair conditioner, (mixed it together in a bowl), cling filmed wrapped, and put a loose warm microfibre turban over it, just to keep it on really. Left it for about half an hour. Just my normal everyday conditioner.

Thanks Enid. So do you need to add it to home hair colour or can I use it after salon colour?

Crikey you lot are chatty today, I'll attempt to catch up on that somewhat in a bit.

@bananafish81, @2babas2cats, @paperdoll83 you all have similar skin issues so I've expedited the work on my master sheet on hormonal acne. It could probably use a bit more info (and the hormonal acne sufferers on here are more than welcome to contribute additional info/advice for me to include ) but it's substantial enough as is to help you all along. I'll do an individual reply to your routines in the order that they've come in on the thread.

Adult Acne (hormonal) Info Sheet

Also of use:

Basics of an Actives Routine

Where to Start

@MaryLennoxsScowl , apologies I know you've been waiting the longest but I'm going to need to do some reading up on the Vitiligo and the use of actives. Is it being treated/seen to? Do you approach it separately?

To all the other that have filled in forms I'll get to you all eventually but please note the following: yes, it would be very easy for me to just rattle off a list of products for you to go out and buy but it rather defies the purpose of these threads. If you struggle with skincare as far as I see it you can do three things:

1. Spend a lot of money on a variation of products that sound 'good' or are anecdotally recommended in the hopes of defying statistic improbability to find a workable routine.

1. Pay a professional to guide you through it step by step, awaiting their instruction at each stage with the added benefit that their advice includes a bit of education whilst hopefully not getting ripped off by buying 'their' product lineup.

1. Educate yourself on skincare ingredients in order to assess what does and doesn't help with your specific issues so you know what to look for in skincare, understanding how to read an INCI, understanding technique, environmental impact, variables, understanding past mistakes, etc. using threads like these to bounce back and forth questions, ideas, initiate discussions, etc.

The forms in this thread are here not to generate a list of products for you (though inevitably this does happen with some) as the focus really isn't on products here.

I implemented the forms at some point as it's often very difficult to respond to a question without additional background information as skin is so different from one person to the next.

It takes a lot of time and sometimes a lot of additional research to answer these forms and whilst I do wish to help out everyone with custom advice there's only so much time I can spend on this, it's not for nothing that I expressly highlight that people read the previous threads before using the forms as many questions will be answered there and product recommendations tend to be repeated ad nauseum.

My general advice if you're currently in a state of information overload, take a step back, don't focus on product (I'm very strict anyhow, there's not much hauling happening here) try to make sense of it and read along for a bit as the information settles in. There's absolutely no urgency to fill your house up with a tonne of new products. Product isn't the thing that's going to magically be the thing that suddenly makes it all work for you, they are the tool, not the method. It's the knowledge and confidence which comes with educating yourself that will see you moving forward. Yes, it asks more work from you, but in the end, it'll be far more rewarding.

On that note, anyone prepping to fill in a form, do me a favour and let me catch up a bit over the next few days.

@bananafish81 , please also read through the linked documents above.

It’s interesting about the PCOS I have a lot of “theories’ about it that are mostly from observation and experience and little to do with science. Generally, as with all female specific diseases, there are just far too many unknowns with it as far as I’m concerned and a lot of medical practitioners tend to blame a lot of mystery symptoms on PCOS, rightly or wrongly which makes the entire condition rather frustrating. I’m very atypical with my PCOS with certain things (but suspect with a higher stress/bad food lifestyle it would unearth the more typical ones), last time they did an echo which only showed cysts on one ovary after which I was told that wasn’t possible .

My specialist is very much against the use of metformin, when I was diagnosed (I think it was about 7 yrs ago, maybe 8) she already claimed it was very outdated and she finds it more harmful than helpful long term especially in those that don’t have insulin resistance issues. My GP in contrast constantly tries to push it at me and considering she was heavily pushing the Diane-35 with my initial diagnosis whilst minimising my legitimate concerns I soon stopped listening to her. Would probably have done that anyway considering my Gyn is a rather highly esteemed peer in her field and GPs only seem to follow set protocols. After all these years I can say that lifestyle choices, minimising stress and some adjuvant therapies like acupuncture and spearmint tea

Anyhow, back to your routine, most of the info on skincare is in the hormonal acne sheet linked above. I generally advocate minimising the most common irritants when you’re unsure what is and isn’t causing irritation. However, you seem to tolerate fragrance without too much irritation so I’ve left in current products that you can finish up with probably little issue (you can always consider phasing fragrance out if you feel it beneficial). I only really advocate dumping out anything really poor/highly potentially irritating ingredients so tend to allow a grace period since you need to slowly introduce anything new anyhow. See the sheet also for that plus the order, it also includes the potential actives you were interested in like Retinol that I haven’t included here yet as it’ll be a while before you introduce that.

AM:

Hot cloth cleanse with Liz Earle C+P Go with something more gentle and more importantly without potential irritants like essential oils. LRP Toleriane Dermo Cleanser
Pixi glow tonic Leave the AHA for what it is for now, get yourself a BHA (but probably use in the PM
Serozinc
TO Vitamin C 23% or alternatively but not available yet the facetheory Vit C which is SAP based and helps tremendously with acne, TO is more of interest for anti-ageing but both have the auxiliary effects of the other.^
Eucerin hyaluron filler serum ← Is this the concentrate? If so, set it aside for a bit and get the Superdrug Simply Pure Hydrating Serum.
Eucerin hyaluron filler oil free day lotion (SPF 15) ← If you like this continue using it, otherwise I generally recommend the Eucerin UltraSensitive for combo/oily skin if LRP Toleriane Dermo is unavailable but taking the barrier repair concerns you might see more benefit from the Bioderma Sensibio Tolerance+ moisturiser
A broad spectrum sunscreen - with your skin type you’ll probably most enjoy the Biore Watery Essence, alternatively, if you don’t want to order something from Japan, the Skin Defence Multi-Protection Essence SPF50.

PM :

Hot cloth cleanse with Liz Earle C+P An oil cleanser: Clinique TTDO balm or oil, Body Shop Chamomile Cleansing Butter, DHC Cleansing Oil, Superdrug Vitamin E Hot Cloth Cleanser
Some nights add in Clarisonic + Avene gentle gel cleanser (when I can be bothered) wrt to the over exfoliation and my general dislike of all things physically exfoliating ditch the Clarisonic, if you do wish to use it when your skin is in better shape restrict it to once a fortnight. Use the LRP Toleriane Dermo Cleanser
BHA - either one of Paula’s Choice 2% formulations (the skin perfecting liquid or the CLEAR regular strength, the latter seeing the most success with oilier skin types but it can be different per person. Either get a few sample sachets from the PC site and start off with the travel size) or alternatively the CosRx BHA Blackhead Power Liquid which uses a milder form of BHA that is more effective to some, but does little for others. Most either get on really well with PC or BHA and vice versa.

You may also consider the PC Resist Anti-Aging Skin Transforming Multi-Correction Treatment with Azelaic Acid + BHA

Routine thereafter is mostly:
Alpha H Liquid Gold see Clarisonic, you may wish to reintroduce this at a later point again but for now, leave it

Estee Lauder ANR

Possibly some Clarins Blue Orchid oil depending on how dehydrated I’m feeling

Institut esthederm intensif hyularonic night cream (freebie from a mate who's a beauty editor - previously used Eucerin Hyaluron filler night cream or Givenchy Hydra Sparkling)

I’m unfamiliar with the Boots prescription program, can you link it and/or the thread for me? Generally, I’m not opposed to prescriptions when in the hands of medical professionals, however, if you currently are in a place of over exfoliation I’d suggest you allow your barrier to repair first before venturing out into additional high strength retinoids.

@botemp, link here re Boots http://www.carolinehirons.com/2017/03/differin-azelaic-acid-uk-readers.html

I'm going to ask my quick question while I remember!
I'm still on my skincare boredom hell due to my skin misbehaving. When it sorts itself out, what am I best introducing first, a BHA or AHA? My head says BHA! Thinking the Corsx one

argh... I sort of vowed not to click CH links anymore... for the love of snail

BHA for inflammation and oil control, hollin. AHA for sloughing off the dead skin cells and glow. I'd say BHA is probably the way to go too.

Dulci, nope still haven't signed up but you can see INCIs without it. Am contemplating signing up with CosDNA, found out you can customise it to your own irritants and any product you'll look up will then automatically highlight that somehow which sounds all sorts of ideal.

TO Lactic (10%) was pathetically inept in my KP experiment. Thought it was doing something but turned out it was a one day fluke. Am stupidly tempted to try that 30% peel on it though...

JDSTER, I've always suspected the NIOD CAIS is only of interest to someone in the 50+ range that has no retinol/vit c/aha in their routine or can't/won't use those.

My Japanese second cleanser is the Kibiki Premium Facial Wash but it's on the pricey side (lasts forever though) and you need to use a foaming net with it so not something I just recommend to anyone who wants an easy to use cleanser but it has a lovely dense yet light foam. I find it a bit much to use twice in one day outside of summer but someone oilier might be fine with that. Dry skin probably won't like it. The Avene is the Extremely Gentle Cleansing Lotion for Intolerent Skin.

INCI: AVENE THERMAL SPRING WATER (AVENE AQUA), CETEARYL ALCOHOL, SERINE, CETRIMONIUM BROMIDE, COCO-GLUCOSIDE, DIPOTASSIUM PHOSPHATE, DISODIUM EDTA, DISODIUM PHOSPHATE, o-PHENYLPHENOL, SODIUM CETEARYL SULFATE, WATER (AQUA)

I'm still trying to figure out whether Decyl Glucoside and Coco Glucoside are the same or not, some list them as similar and others as the same. The Kibiki used Decyl and is especially gentle for sensitive skin and often used for things like baby shampoo, etc.

Thanks for that, arahia. I'm always interested in what motivates beauty culture in different countries. As mentioned in the Fifty Shades guest post Asian beauty rituals is often misrepresented and the more negative aspects of it (eg. in Japan it's considered rude towards society for a woman not to wear makeup/be groomed that's tied in with the Shinto/Buddhist symbiotic outlook on the place of the individual within a community but feels troubling from a Western perspective). Any idea what motivates it in Poland, is it a tradition that goes back far or is it a post-USSR reaction?

Enid, I don't really get where the old lady hand cream association comes from either. My gran just uses something heavy, she finds the whole specific products a rip off. I associate hand cream much more with young people, especially those in jobs that require a lot of handwashing like teachers and nurses.

mint/jo Matrixyl is a peptide, HA is a humectant they're completely different things . The only reason I rec the TO Matrixyl sometimes is because it contains a healthy dose of HA but doesn't have the user issues the HA 2% + B5 has.

banivani, I'm exerting my influence and banning the guru word or at the very least it appearing anywhere in the vicinity of my username.

Acids can indeed be confusing. Since our skin is lightly acidic most skincare is in acid form but when we talk about acids on here it's usually in reference to exfoliating acids. The short version is that BHA helps best with inflammatory conditions like acne, rosacea, etc. and works on a deeper level as it's oil soluble. AHAs work on the outer layer and are primarily of interest for drier skin types to help accelerate the natural shedding process of dead skin cells.

ugh proofreading...

*Decyl Glucoside, which is especially gentle for sensitive skin and often used for things like baby shampoo, etc (not the Kibiki)

• negative aspects of it are overlooked

Thank you, my plan is to try and do one thing at a time and see how skin reacts. It's happy if I alternate nights with acnecide gel and retinoid but that's it very boring now!
Will reintroduce my HA and niaci and see how it goes

JD I think you can use it after a salon colour. I had much better results when I used it just in a conditioner, than I did when I mixed it with that awful box colour. I'm going for my hair coloured in a couple of weeks time and I intend to use it in a conditioner mix afterwards. I might wait a couple of days first to let the colour settle.

Forgot about these! Off topic but ages ago I was going shopping for new riding boots
Botemp threatened me with death warned me they had best not end up looking like the crystal creme de la mer jar
Anyway this is what I got, they're made to measure, dark brown with snakeskin on the heel/toe/top and the most expensive item of clothing I've ever owned I love them

Thanks bo the reason I asked is because I'm running very low on my hylamide and am wondering whether to repurchase again or go for matrixl, any thoughts? I'm still loving the face theory phew!!

Thanks Botemp! The GP said nothing could be done for the vitiligo and when I googled it there wasn't much information and generally the consensus agreed with GP that nobody really knows what causes it and there isn't a treatment. I'm not expecting you to be able to cure it, I just make sure it has SPF on it and cover it with bourjois colour correcting cc cream. It didn't occur to me that actives might trigger it into spreading - eek! It's been dormant since it arrived at least 6 years ago - hadn't grown or changed.

Has anyone else had any problems with FaceTheory moisturisers? I noted in my questionnaire that the M1 balled up under sun cream really badly - well, I got my replacement M2, which was fine before, on Friday, and it does exactly the same thing! Experiments with putting it on without a serum underneath and without sun cream show that it isn't the fault of either - the moisturiser itself balls up if you rub it in any way, even if you leave it half an hour first and just start putting on makeup. I had no hassle at all with my first bottle of M2 so I can only conclude they've changed the formula. I'm going to write in to complain. Hollin, I haven't posted you the m1 yet, I'm now thinking there is something wrong with it so not sure if you still want it!

Mary I use it and so far have had no balling issues

Urgh my skin is not happy at the moment. Spots!! I suspect it's caused by one of three things, my bodyshop clay mask pulling out the gunk, totm, or because I fell off the 'no chocolate' wagon Perhaps a combo of those things but I suspect it's mostly to do with the chocolate, so annoying!

hollin, I'm somewhat deflated by the lack of sparklies

mint/jo I did a comparison of all the Deciem HA serums with Aurora a few threads back on the back of repeated questions. IIRC the Hylamide SubQ and Buffet were the most similar but had different focuses wrt active ingredients.

Mary, no not looking for cures but certainly don't want to be using anything that can worsen the condition. Especially thinking about the photosensitising actives and how that plays with Vitiligo (from memory I vaguely recall it has to do with pigment inhibition but I don't really know how sun exposure and sensitivity plays into it).

Can you link the SPF you're currently using as I can't seem to find a milk in the Anthelios lineup all that quickly,

Bo you're a star. Wrt Polish skincare there is a strong beauty salon tradition in former Eastern Europe - they had feck all else but going to the hairdresser/salon was affordable and available. My husband also goes on rants about how Polish (or Eastern European, depending on his mood) society judges women on their appearance, how it's important to fit a certain mold (be slim, well kept etc), how men aren't faced with the same prescriptions at all but wander around with beer bellies... Sitting beside him on a beach in Poland was a hoot, let me tell you. ;)

I used the COSRX Holy Moly sheet mask yesterday, and really enjoyed the results. My skin felt plumped and hydrated. Recommended!

I'm liking the effects azelaic acid have on me, but my options for getting it seem to be limited to TO azelaic suspension, which is siliconey and I'd prefer, in an ideal world, something with less pilling potential. OR wait for someone going to Poland to buy me Acnederm. :/ I'm not willing to pay stupid amounts for it like.

Botemps, thank you so much. As someone who very obviously has no clue or routine, I'm devouring all the info you've provided in the sheets and past threads and taking lots of notes before I dive in. Thank you for taking the time to do this, I'm finding it all extremely helpful!

Very nice summary sheets Bo which you can refer people back to time and time again instead of repeating yourself (I include myself in repeating of questions!)