Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!

[botemp]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, 3, and 4 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer to previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:

---

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.

Also in my googling I fell down a rabbit hole of Korean skin care blogs and ordered this
Forgive me Botemp for my sins
https://www.holysnailsshop.com/products/snowbang-essence#

Morning - I'd really appreciate some pointers regarding my routine and i'm after some recommendations for a couple of products i'm after - here's my form...

Skin type: Normal, I think – I wear glasses and I can’t really see my face clearly, in the late afternoon it usually feels the same as it did in the morning, so not oilier or dryer. I don’t get any breakouts (I’m on the contraceptive implant) and I don’t think I have any sensitivity to any products but I do have uneven complexion on my cheeks and large pores on my forehead, cheeks and nose.

Approx age (range): Just turned 40.

Primary skin concern: I look 5 or so years younger than I am and I’d like to try and keep it that way.

Routine AM: 1 cleanse with either – Bravura first cleanse oil, Superdrug hot cloth cleanser, or Cetaphil then TO Vit C 23% followed by Waitrose Pure natural day cream and finished off with Biore UV watery essence SPF.
Routine PM: 2 cleanses with 2 of either – Bravura first cleanse oil, Superdrug hot cloth cleanser, or Cetaphil. Then a rotation of the following 4;
A. TO Adv Retinoid 2% then TO Buffet followed by No7 Protect & Perfect night cream.
B. Alpha-H Liquid Gold then TO Buffet followed by a facial oil (I have TO Rosehip, Tata Harper replenishing nutrient complex and Aurelia Cell Repair Night Oil – which I love the smell of).
C. TO Buffet then TO Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B5 followed by a facial oil.
D. Nip/FAB Extreme Glycolic pads then TO Buffet then TO Hyaluronic Acid 2% + B5 followed by a facial oil.

Makeup: Medium (but not every day), I use either Benefit Hello Flawless liquid foundation/Hello Flawless powder or a nearly finished Virgin Vie one step face base.

Occasional treatments: None, at the moment, but would like to try some sheet masks.

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results: I once tried Astral but didn’t like the texture or smell. Also if I get some products to close to my eyes, it makes them water, therefore I don’t use an eye cream for fear of wasting money on something that makes my eyes water.

Things that are really working well for me now: It’s all working ok, now that I actually have a proper routine – thanks initially to MN and Caroline Hirons then more recently to TO and these threads. I used to wash my face in the shower with Simple facial washes/exfoliators….

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant: Still breastfeeding DC2 at night

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: £20 - £50

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]: I have a bit of list….

1. I’d like to add another cleanser (possibly LRP Toleraine).
2. I’d like something to replace the VV one step face base and was looking at the Clinique Moisture Surge CC Cream which I’ve heard good things about and/or another pressed powder would be good.
3. I’d like another day cream (to alternate with a CC type cream) the Waitrose day cream works ok (but it’s nothing special).
4. I’m nearly out of the No7 P&P so another night moisturiser would be good and I’ve heard good things about the Clarins lotus/orchid oil.
5. I’d like to try a sheet mask and possibly the TO Niacinamide (I need some more Buffet so could add this to my next order).
6. After I’ve finished the Liquid Gold & Nip/Fab pads I’m thinking of getting the BR P50 but don’t know which one yet.

Will do a proper catch up later, in the meantime:

@fledglingFTB , just something general about the whole ‘natural’ thing (not meant in a patronising way but just my personal conclusions after exhaustive investigations of it). If you want to do it right and properly, cruelty-free, no evil corps as parent companies, no selling in China, etc. etc. you have to make some serious compromises. Compromises are primarily financial as you basically have to go organic (and most likely biodynamic) and raw ingredients are significantly more expensive, you’re likely to have to compromise in terms of formulations and how active ingredients are and certain helpful ingredients like Retinol, Vitamin C (in ascorbic acid form), Hyaluronic Acid, etc. just don’t exist in the stringent organic skincare offerings for various reasons. Frustratingly you’ll then see ‘natural’ companies utilising ‘sciencey’ claims for the derived ingredients like, Rosehip seed Oil is nature’s Retin-A, ‘Donkey’s Milk is a natural source of AHA’ bla bla when in no way a specially formulated AHA product will ever compare to a product with a dash of Donkey’s Milk in it where it will be extremely diluted, never mind in a pH range that will actually exfoliate in order to actually see the benefits from an AHA. Doesn’t stop the company from suggesting it without overtly saying so. The linked company of your moisturiser is definitely one for this.

OTC cosmetics will only do so much (and this actual the legal threshold, skincare that alters skin would be medication), but cosmetics imitating the cosmetics that will only do so much is just a load of nonsense. An all natural routine is much closer to some almond or jojoba oil that performs as cleanser and moisturiser and little else and is only really suitable to those who have ‘easy’ skin.

There are far too many ‘natural’ companies out there and with a bit of proper research you’ll find at the end of the day it is mostly green washing and they are no worse/no better than all the other false advertising claims out there. For example Caudalie presents itself as a very ‘green’ brand but it’s hard to tell the difference between that and LRP if you look at their formulations. In science everything is chemical, the distinction between natural and chemical doesn’t really exist. Your best bet is to take the same approach that we generally take here and learn to read the INCI for what you do and don’t want to incorporate for whatever reasons.

Products doing nothing for you don’t surprise me if regularity is something you struggle with. As I’ve recced to others struggling with this try for a certain period of time, 4-6 weeks or so, to just do a basic routine of cleanse, moisturiser, SPF before attempting anything else.

The PC SPF uses a mineral sunscreen filter so a white cast is to be expected with that.

How long and how did you use the PC perfecting liquid? It might also be the case that you’d have been better off with one of the CLEAR formulations in combination with your skin type.

AM :

cleanse - Biore Pore Penetration Charcoal Bar using hands Not a fan of this as it contains scrub particles which feels too much for 2x a day use thankfully you’re inconsistent. LRP Toleriane Dermo would be better, possibly a Salicylic acid based cleanser if you struggle with a lot of oil control issues. If you’re dead set on something natural you can try the cream cleanser from Pai.

I’m tempted to put in an HA serum here initially simply to help ease the dehydration issues. The Super drug simply pure hydrating serum might be a good one to try initially. If it doesn’t end up getting used the cost is negligible.

mositurise - Elizabethan Quince, Goat Milk & Manuka Honey Skin Cream for All Skin Types, Quince, Goat Milk & Marshmallow AHA Eye Cream I do think these are too rich for your skin, especially if with this use you’re experiencing dry/flakiness and greasiness all at the same time. I’d try the LRP Toleriane Fluide if it’s still available or the Eucerin UltraSensitive for combo skin

SPF - really hard to do for ‘natural’. Closest I’ve come to a comfortable daily one is the John Master Organic one, SPF 30 and horrendously expensive. Since you’re not currently using one and not on any form of photosensitising actives perhaps it’s sensible not to delve into SPFs until the above basic routine is settled and working for you.

So in the future consider incorporating: Vit C for the eye area (and general face area also has its benefits), Retinoid (see Vit C), Niacinamide for reducing sensitivities, BHA for pore refinement, oil control and blemishes, AHA for balancing. (The standards of first oil cleanser and SPF to expand out the basic routine first though).

@scaryg , a few things first.

*Retinoids and Retinols are advised not to be used whilst pregnant and breastfeeding.

*I’ve never used it myself but I’m pretty sure Liquid Gold is meant to be used on its own after cleansing.

*In general unless you’re very oily, an oil based cleanser in the AM is a bit too much of a good thing. Stick to the gentler cream/water based cleansers then.

*Uneven tone in your complexion - are we talking redness or pigmentation? Or something else?

*You’re doing a lot of mini routines, where are you in terms of finishing things as your routine feels somewhat bloated now which may mean it’s difficult to see results from the different parts as they hardly make a whole.

Wrt to your questions:

1.I’d switch/phase out the Cetaphil for the LRP, gentler and no SLS.

2.I’m useless with the makeup queries, I’m sure Clinique will offer a CC cream and a sales pitch when asked.

3.Your skin is pretty easy in comparison to most on here, so it’s hard to rec anything specific. Moisturisers tend to be kind of uninteresting so if you want something with a bit more oomph it’s just following your sensorial preferences (not familiar with the Waitrose though, am assuming it’s a bog standard base cream).

1. See 3 (again the P&P is pretty bog standard). You currently have 3 facial oils, unless one isn’t working for you or they’ll all running out imminently I don’t see sense in investing in another one. Sorry Clarins.

1. Sheet masks are fun, don’t expect miracles from them. Sheet masks are pretty much like skincare, seek out the specific ingredients that work for you, it's hard to just point out the one true sheet mask to try. A First Treatment Essence would do more for you on a regular basis than an incidental sheet mask. TO Nia possibly of interest for pigmentation/brightening and pore appearance but I struggle a bit to see where you’d fit it in and possibly it would make more sense to seek out a different step in your routine like your night cream and seek out one high in Nia there instead.

6.It may be sensible to start off with the W but since you have easy skin the straight P50 is probably the most effective formulation, possibly the V for some added anti-ageing or PIGM 400 for pigmentation/brightening but they're a lower strength. If you’re near a selling point they’d really be the best to ask when buying.

Couple of questions please. Bo you mentioned salicylic acid based cleanser upthread. Any you'd particularly recommend? LRP dermo cleanse isn't enough to remove oil on my face in the morning. Using NIOD Sanskrit saponins which I like but looking for an alternative. Previously I think you suggested I could try a snail gel as a moisturiser- any in particular to look at? Again, I'd like the option of another light moisturiser other than LRP toleriane.

Hollin mentioned a few bloggers too- is there any particular recommendations for who to follow? Thanks

GayParee, it's the Kuramoto Bijin Ferment Milk. It's not a toner, more in between a heavy hydrating serum and light moisturiser, I just call it an emulsion because that's what it kind of feels like to me. Dry skin can use it as an additional hydrating layer before moisturiser, combo-oily as a moisturiser on its own. So not really a pixi replacement in terms of place in routine or in terms of exfoliating properties, totally different product.

I bought mine through a personal shopper in JP but she's moved and am still looking for a replacement. e b a y does sell it but it's marked up quite heavily.

mint/jo, don't think anyone was trying to dissuade you away from the thread, certainly wasn't my intention.

eversions, that's good to know about the prime possibilities on AB products on A mazon. You're in luck, I've been delving into the new PHA products coming out in AB land and there's a new daily gentle exfoliating pad from Missha (the Super Aqua Smooth Skin Peeling Pads) that's AHA (in the form of some very gentle fruit acids) + BHA (It's lowish but I think between 0.5-1%) + PHA (which is the new and shiny low irritant acid exfoliator that everyone has their eyes on) totalling a 7% concentration. It's not super cheap but I think around the N+F prices when not on offer. I saw them on Jolse for $13 shipped, am quite tempted to try them myself just to see what they're about. They only got released in late December but have yet to see any proper reviews on them. CosDNA profile here.

Aurora, when you're back amongst the living PM me so I can send over your half of the Bifida loot.

wilting that was quick! The UK Royal Mail has to be the slowest ever but I think the Irish are the quickest ever. Gothamista really doesn't like that Vitamin C 23% .

Hollin, you're forgiven as I'm quite fond of supporting small startups with good skincare philosophies. Be prepared though, the stuff from her shop is always intercepted by the tax people and import taxes are heavily levied (unless you got the sample, then you're in the safe zone).

JDSTER, LRP used to do a good one but they discontinued it . For a gentler Salicylic cleanser (I think it's about 0.5%) try the CosRx Low pH Good Morning Cleanser and for a stronger one (particularly good with prescription routines, lots of inflammation, etc.) then Salicylic (2%) Wash from Active Formulas looks really good INCI wise (unless you have issues with kelp ferment, the Holy Snails Shark Sauce has loads of it which I think you're trying now, right?). Both shouldn't be too stripping and have relatively clean INCIs.

Speaking of Active Formulas (or SAS as they're called in the US), I've just downloaded the preview from their founder's ebook on skincare which is a good compilation of all her writings. I'm a little put off slightly that there's a lot of internal brand promotion and since it's more a collection of her blog writings a few things are repeated ad nauseum but it is a really good comprehensive overview wrt active skincare routines, how to read ingredient lists, what actives do, how to tackle certain problems, etc. from the perspective of a scientist/formulator. Ebook on A mazon here. If you have the time and patience you can, of course, find it all online under the company philosophy info and the company blog but this is neatly organised, I was initially thinking of getting the paperback version but after viewing the preview I think I'll go with the kindle version instead.

Wrt to blogs, do you mean AB blogs? I don't follow that many and mostly use them as a press release sort of thing as AB is a bit difficult to keep track of with their continuous reformulations, upgrades, new product releases, etc. I like Snow White & the Asian Pear, FiftyShadesofSnail, Vanity Rex (mostly because I have similar skin and sensitivities), Fanserviced-B (who satiates my appetite for novelty without me having to buy a thing) and a few older ones that rarely blog anymore, Skin & Tonics, My Asian Skincare Story (for the Japanese stuff), and the Beauty Wolf. I usually check in with the AB Reddit once or twice a week before getting annoyed with it again.

Dr. Sam uploaded a new on budget skincare that derms use. Off to watch now and contemplate buying inline skates. I blame yongnian and her horse talk for that, I seem stuck in ten-year-old mode.

I got the sample the blogger who it was made for seems to have similar skin to mine so I thought given they offered a sample it was worth a go

Thanks Bo. Yes AB blogs. I do look at 50 shades one and more recently Snow White but I'll check out the other ones too. Good old Dr Sam. I do love her offerings and would love an appointment with her just to see what her recommendations were for me. Off to watch her video...

I used Lush's Ultrabland today as I do want to start trying different balms. EH is gorgeous but so overpriced. It felt so nourishing, like my skin was soaking it up but blimey it's hard to remove. Even with a double cleanse with LRP. I've a feeling beeswax mightn't be the best thing for acne prone skin but the reviews are mostly very favourable so thought it was worth a try. Smells lovely, skin looks glowing. We will see.

Anyway, it made me realise my skin needs something more soothing, richer and nourishing. Oils or a serum?

Might be trickier to find something rich that doesn't cause acne. Any suggestions welcome, or what to look for. I was thinking something with almond oil in it maybe as that's the first ingredient in the Ultrabland.

I like ultrabland, I worked for lush and it was one of my fave products
REN omega 3 oil serum might be worth a look, despite how acne prone my skin is, it's never made me break out

Hirons review
http://www.carolinehirons.com/2014/02/ren-omega-3-optimum-skin-serum-oil.html

Aargh anyone tried the Facetheory night cream? Have tried it twice aged it's pilled terribly both times. Have got the day cream to try tomorrow too, if that one's does it I'll take them up on their 30 day promise :(

I'm also fancying the secret key rose essence. Ok for dehydrated combo acne prone skin? I'm assuming so although as someone prone to thrush the word 'candidus' is mildly worrying...

Thank you Hollin!

The Ren looks good although I've never got on with any of their other products. I'm a bit 'allergic' to eating wheat (not the right word) Wonder what the rules are for gluten or wheat in products.

Curious about absorption generally actually. I can't have caffeine so avoid products containing it but can our skin actually absorb any of the ingredients into the blood. Instinct says no as the epidermis is too thick. But we were saying about avoiding parabens with endocrine issues. This might be a stupid question, I have brain fog tonight so cant think properly. I should read up on this, when I've had a good sleep, as I'd like to know.

Bo you've hit the nail on the head, my halfhearted attempt at 'natural' was really just a coverall for laziness/cluelessness... and has resulted in a lot of pointless purchases. However, I have recently found skinshop uk for makeup and so far I'm pleased (dry eye and kalme concealer) interested to hear if anyone else rates them or if it's further green washing.

PC perfecting was used on/off for 2-3 weeks, I didn't enjoy the sensation when applying. Felt tingly, does that sound ridiculous? Possibly 

I like that you've suggested LRP. I've been eyeing up their stuff for a while now and I always end up circling the display in Boots. So I've opted for the LRP cleanser + moisturiser + Superdrug serum. I like that they're all easily available, I've no excuses not to commit.

I'm coming to the end of most products luckily, so it'll be a clean start!

Can I ask a few Qs

• is it best to use a flannel with a cleanser, or are hands fine?
• The LRP combo is okay for AM & PM use?
• Whilst trying not to get ahead of myself do you rate The Ordinary? I've spotted their VitC and Niacinamide products and thought at that price and along with your final recommendations they might be handy to have in reserve. Around my eyes does feel dry, so VitC esp appeals.

Apologies if my use of the term expertise irked you. But I must say that regardless of the product effectiveness; you've listened, taken on board and helped me to understand my skincare needs and capabilities more than any official professional ever has. So, thank you very much.

enid I used ultrabland for years too, loved it. Hmm, that's got me thinking actually....
Inline skates bo? Snicker.....glad I've inspired you... and I haven't even got started yet on consulting hollin/the wider thread on what colours do we think for a dark bay....?
My current skincare fixation focus is on obliterating the matching plough constellations of scars from my recent hormonal spot outburst, in the hollow of each cheek. Slapping on the TO vit C and have dug out the old tretinoin cream (proceeding with caution here but it is usually ok on spot scars, I just keep it away from anywhere dermatitis prone).

Hi all, I've got a skincare emergency - can anyone help? I'm off to a wedding later today and I've woken up with a hormonal spot on my chin (lovely!) in spite of (or maybe because of) using some BHA last night

I've slapped on some Neutrogena visibly clear gel, which is my usual spot treatment but does anyone else have any tips for bringing down inflammation quickly?!!

Sorry Tsmummy that's bad timing! I dont have any tips though I'm afraid.

fledgling Its great that you're finding the thread helpful, I certainly do. In response to your cleanse question, I would suggest applying LRP to dry skin in the morning and rinsing off with hands but to use a flannel to remove at night. If you've got makeup on I'd use a balm type cleanser first to remove makeup- applied to dry skin and removed with a clean flannel -then LRP as second cleanse. Have you identified an SPF to use in your morning routine?
TO is well rated on here. I personally use niacinamide and VitC.

I have two bottles of Superdrug serum if anyone wants them? (It was buy one get one half price) I've used one of them twice that's all.

gayparee have u tried warming it up in your palms first then pressing into skin before rubbing in? It goes very white which I actually quite like but once it's sunk in there's no whiteness left and no pilling for me, I used hylamide subq underneath maybe that makes a difference? Someone actually said to me this morning "u look very freshfaced" and that's never happened to me!!

Tsmummy my SOS method is P50 topped with Clarins Lotus Oil and lately I've also tried tea tree oil which worked well, but it wasn't anything major and I know I don't react to it (as I always use it on insect bites).

You say you think the spot is the result of the BHA, though... have you got any antibiotic cream or antihistamines? I took some antihistamines last year when I had a weird rash all over my face after having some food poisoning.

Best bet is just to maybe use one of these to bring the redness down and then conceal well.

Just don't do anything rash and only apply things you know are OK for you.

JDSTER thanks, looks like I need to stock up on IKEA flannels! Double cleansing is an uncharted territory, I don't wear make up much so I might hold off on investing in a balm (had to google what a balm is ) and just see how I get on with the suggested basic routine.

No, I've not looked into SPFs, last time I tried too I ended up in a week long google k-hole, SPFs bamboozle me. Also I'm based in the NW, so sun is never a major worry

Just used the REN omega 3 and moisturiser before foundation. Really really pleased with this finish, not filtered and I took it in daylight

TS do not squeeze number 1 rule! My tried and tested sos treatment in emergencies is hibi scrub rubbed gently on to it and then wiped off with a wet cotton pad, dab of savlon (same active ingredient). Then don't touch it. When concealing, put some on, blend, powder, then apply a bit more. Not too much as cakey is worse than a visible spot imo. An anti histamine might help too.

Looking good Hollin which foundation is that, it looks flawless.