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Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!

999 replies

botemp · 29/01/2017 08:36

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, 3, and 4 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault. Grin

If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then Wink. Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.

Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer to previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Skin type:

Approx age (range):

Primary skin concern:

Routine :

AM :

PM :

Makeup : eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage

Occasional treatments:

Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:

Things that are really working well for me now:

Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:

What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.

I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:


Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
hollinhurst84 · 05/02/2017 00:55

Pass. I imagine so though! I can only use two things on my eyes otherwise they stream for days (sensitive flower) Grin

EnidButton · 05/02/2017 03:15

Ok, thank you. I'd try it for that price anyway. (Grin at sensitive flower.) 🌸

AuroraPolaris · 05/02/2017 05:56

Sorry guys busy busy weekend! Back tomorrow Wink

wiltingfast · 05/02/2017 08:08

Hollin, I'd be interested in the mizonif no one else wants it! Am in Ireland though so I worries if that is an issue Smile Happy to PayPal you something for it and posting?

hollinhurst84 · 05/02/2017 13:11

wilting - PM me your address and I'll get it out to you Smile prob be Tuesday when my stitches are a bit less ouch!

Tsmummy08 · 05/02/2017 15:03

Flowers for Hollin and Bo and anyone else feeling crappy at the moment!

I've got a question for retinol users: I started using Skinceuticals 1% last year (after using a 0.3% product with no issues) and had to stop because it made my skin sore, very sensitive to being rubbed and virtually all products stung. I had a little flaking but not much.

Fast forward to this year: I've been using TO Retinoid 2% with no issues and decided to try mixing in the Skinceuticals again. I've been using it every other day and again my skin's got SO sensitive: even the Toleriane cleanser stings like a bastard and my skin hurts when I rub my eyes, for example. Is this normal and should I just persist hoping it's an adjustment and I'll be fine in a few weeks/months? I continued for a month or so last year before giving up....

I'd be interested in other experiences because I know retinol has such high efficacy and I want to incorporate it in some way....

SheStoodInTheStorm · 05/02/2017 16:47

CakeFlowersto those in need! Hope you're doing ok bo & Hollin
*
Bo -* Was it the TO HA + B5 that was causing the breakouts? I've always been really hesitant to rec that one unless someone was super oily but it seems to be causing many issues except with a few. May stop reccing it altogether.
*
^^*yes it was this one!

If anyone does get on with it I have nearly a full bottle available.

Ladies, today I found a Sisley counter!!!! I tried the concealer (I think!!) but as I already had make up on I don't think I saw as much difference. I need to try without anything on first I think. I also realised I have something very similar from no7!!

JDSTER · 05/02/2017 16:49

Hi tsumummy just out of interest why have you switched back to the pure retinol? How have you responded to TO retinoid in terms of its beneficial effects on your skin? I understand it's got 'next generation' retinoids that aren't as irritating so I'm interested as to why people choose the pure retinol product. I'm not using a retinol yet but plan to introduce one soon.

Shop · 05/02/2017 17:01

Hi everyone!

I've received the TO vit c a few days ago but struggling with it under makeup.
I know I could use it at night but already use facetheory retinol & TO Azelaic at night.
Does anyone have any ideas? Would mixing it with my day cream ruin the efficacy?

Pupsiecola · 05/02/2017 17:22

Shop in my experience, you need to put the TO Vit C on and wait a good hour to add make-up. Alternatively rinse off after half an hour (supposedly works it's magic in that time).

If I need to put make up on straight away in the morning I skip Vit C. But I don't go out to work so I can usually wait until later in the morning, plus I only wear tinted moisturiser anyway. I've found some products react with the Vit C and some are fine. My NeoStrata tinted moisturiser doesn't play nicely with it AT ALL!

Pupsiecola · 05/02/2017 17:23

That's so weird. I didn't add a link to Neostrata in my post!

Tsmummy08 · 05/02/2017 17:45

JDSTER I switched back to the pure retinol as I perceived it to be stronger and therefore more effective in fine line reduction, evening skin tone etc etc, but I may of course be completely wrong! The TO Retinoid was very nice and not at all irritating but I thought that after a couple of months of using it my skin would be conditioned to tolerate the Retinol. It seems I can use Retinol once a week or so but not every other night as I'm doing now.

I'll persist with it a little longer :)

Shop · 05/02/2017 18:30

Thanks Pupsie I'll try that, not sure I'd be able to remember every day and also sometimes still up in the night with DCs then do school run so tend to shove makeup on when I get 5 minutes spare 😄
Facetheory are bringing out a vitamin C serum so may give that a go if its any good ingredients wise

JDSTER · 05/02/2017 20:55

Thanks tsmummy. I wondered about the 'strength' aspect as well. I suppose my question is has TO worked (however you define worked?Confused)
shop I've just switched to using TO vit C in the morning. It's been fine for me, probably add makeup about half an hour after morning skincare routine. I do use a primer so maybe that helps?

Tsmummy08 · 05/02/2017 21:13

JDSTER I'm not sure of its effectiveness tbh - my skin was looking great until recently, but I'm not sure I can pinpoint which product (or combination) was responsible! Vit A results accrue over time so it's something I want to carry on using and if I have to step down to using TO retinoid, so be it.

Shop · 05/02/2017 21:23

Thanks JDSTER, I've been using a primer but not sure it's helped. Do you moisturise & SPF over it? I've been using it in this order:

Cleanse
Spritz hydrating toner
TO Vit C
Moisturiser
SPF
Primer

JDSTER · 05/02/2017 22:11

Yes shop I cleanse then vit c, followed by NIOD Ha then LRP moisturiser, wait maybe 10 mins then biore watery essence spf or Clinique city block spf. Haven't had a problem with it, though I did anticipate one as I know some people have had textural issues with the vit C and so I asked the question about a week ago actually about switching to using Vit c in the morning as I had been using at night. As always, things work differently for different folk!

wiltingfast · 05/02/2017 22:34

Aw thanks hollin Smile will do that now

As for my cleansing oil search I thought this decleor one looked interesting...

user1471503992 · 05/02/2017 23:17

Thanks for everyone who answered my rosacea question, I haven't been back to this thread in a couple of days. I never imagined it as something that could be treated before, just annoying. Red wine is definitely the worst thing for my flushing and it can upset my stomach and has been known to make my lips swell though not every time I drink it so I mostly avoid it even though I like the taste. Interesting that it could be a specific kind though, I need to learn which types of red are which and not just buy whatever is on offer. Agree on the exercise front too.

I've been slowly introducing some TO products to the basic regime advised here, and so far the Nia made my skin look amazing after the first night, seemed to shrink my pores. My sister said I looked like I had foundation on. The seb fils on my nose and the pores on cheeks near nose look much better. It hasn't done much for the blackheads under my nose and on chin though, and PC isn't helping either, I have concluded I must have the wrong PC but their shipping was awful so the thought of waiting another 6 weeks is putting me off ordering a different sample. Should I be avoiding putting hydrating serums/moisturiser etc near blackhead areas, could these be counter-productive?

I've also tried TO rosehip on a bit of a whim, it makes my skin very soft and smooth but I think it might be a bit much for every night. I got Buffet too but I am trying to stick to the advice about introducing things slowly so only started this yesterday - no immediate crisis, but too soon to tell whether it suits me. These are actually my first ever attempts at any regular use of actives other than PC which doesn't work on me as above and so far I'm pretty impressed!

Sorelip · 05/02/2017 23:39

LtheWife thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it. I feel so much happier now I have some guidance! Contraception wasn't mentioned at all, which is really scary. I'm not on any hormonal contraceptive but I'm thinking of trying Yasmin, since Microgynon didn't make any difference to my skin.

And JDSTER thank you for pointing me in Dr Sam Bunting's direction. I watched a load of her videos earlier, and feel much less lost. It especially helps knowing that my skin will probably get worse before it gets better, and that it'll take at least three months to be able to assess whether the Differin is helping.

I've now got Ultrasun and Cerave coming on Tuesday, and I'm getting the LRP dermo and TTDO tomorrow. It feels good to have a plan Smile

Dulcimena · 06/02/2017 09:05

Just chiming in to TO Vit C suspension discussion, I initially hated it, really didn't enjoy using it...until I figured out the combo that works for me. I am now applying less than I think I should - probably a blob the size of an old ha'penny - usually on bare skin, followed immediately by Benton Snail bee essence and SPF. No moisturiser. I don't wait (too impatient!) but I find this delivers sufficient hydration generally and no balling up issues. If skin needs an extra boost I apply Benton fermentation essence before the Vit C. It is a faff to work with however and definitely took a bit of tweaking.

FizzyBubbly · 06/02/2017 13:31

Just back from the GP and have been given a prescription for an oral antibiotic (Lymecycline) for my acne and was told it works for rosacea too. It will hopefully kill two birds with one stone then! Anyone had experience of this antiB before? Reviews online are mixed

botemp · 06/02/2017 14:41

Yes, I was away this weekend, thought I had mentioned it before, apologies if I didn’t. Friday was annoyingly occupied by persistent cyst bursting annoyances Angry.

You lot have been chatty so I’ve just copy/pasted the questions I came across and answered below. If I missed someone, just ask again. The forms I’ve tackled separately and will put them up later tonight.

purple15 Fri 03-Feb-17 11:43:00

I want some of The Concealer too. I'm still lurking on the thread and a while ago I was recommended the Nyx concealer which I have been using for two weeks and is great but if I use The Concealer is it amazing?

Here’s the last I’ll say on THE Concealer as I really don’t want to be creating hype around a product and raising expectations that it will then fail to meet because of that. Is it amazing? For me it is, emphasis on ‘me’. I spent about 4 months sampling various others and this in the shade number 2 worked like nothing else before it. I do not, however, have dark hereditary circles, fine lines, puffiness, crepiness, etc. (though I wager it would tackle a lot of this, provided it’s not in the extreme and your expectations are not insane). I also look fine, not ill, not tired, etc. when I don’t wear concealer.

I could rationalise it because you get a lot more product than your average concealer and you use very little, it also doubles up as an eyeshadow base (though I haven’t tried it with eyeshadow on top but it work perfectly without it) and a sort of eye cream. I happened to be out of all three of those products so it wasn’t the most irrational decision in the world but I was well aware I was upselling it to myself and accidentally dragged the equally dithering Aurora along with me.

The price is extortionate, there’s no two ways about it, and though it can be somewhat rationalised it doesn’t take away from the fact that this is the most I ever spent on a concealer but it’s also the most I spent on a base product, period. It was worth it to me but had I not reacted to some other products that were far more affordable I would have been fine not knowing about this concealer.

If you can afford it and the price is an ordinary transaction with no consequences and you’ve actually sampled it in store to see what it does for you, and you happen to be in the market for a concealer then by all means go for it. If this is a heavy investment and it requires you to sacrifice other things then I suggest some sense and forget about it and leave the appreciation around here for what it is, hype.

Saying all that for me it has become one of those instant ‘the one’ products, after being very impressed whilst trying it, it performed even better than expected and had additional benefits I hadn’t anticipated. It’s now become a product I no longer need to concern myself about as despite the price I’m pretty sure I’ll happily repurchase this without qualms for quite some time. After trying it with various application methods (still need to try the baby beauty blenders from Primark though) I’ve actually found a previously defunct buffer brush from Zoeva (the 103, it’s one of those slanted ones, I bought in a desperate attempt to make a foundation work once, it was useless as that) perfect to finish it off over the entire eye area after patting it in gently with my fingers first.

wiltingfast Fri 03-Feb-17 17:32:41

Gosh Bo , is the NMF silicony? Full ingredients here [...]

Apols, Wilting, I must have mistaken it for one of the primers. NMF is a bit of new technology and going on the back of Hollin’s experience it’s definitely one I’d wait out to become a bit more cosmetically elegant. I think moisturisers tend to be so unsatisfying since it’s usually the last step and it should feel a bit more pampering and ‘rewarding’, a bit like dessert Grin.

I have drifted towards it on basis they are skin identical type ingredients (according to the TO bumpf) but perhaps I am being fooled, wouldn't be the first time!) The squalane is in stock now too and is 100% squalane. Says it is vg for hydration. Maybe that would be better? Really just need to top up my TO order to hit the free postage. Am getting the retinol and one of the weaker Vit Cs - Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate 10%.

I’m not sure about 100% Squalane they recently released a line of it here, it’s such a bloody fraud, they sell a ‘moisturiser’ which is just a bottle of 100% Squalane and it feels like an oil. I think it’s interesting for those that are oily but don’t respond well to pure facial oils but would like something like that in their routine or have the ability to add it to moisturisers to boost it up a bit like you would with a facial oil when needed.

Am easy on the galactomyces, happy to split the one you are interested in. Happy to buy and send onto you if you like, just pm me, no worries if you are still pondering! I can always just buy the CosRx one on amazon. It's in my basket waiting for it to fill up enough to justify an order.

I actually found another listing for the Bifida in mini samples so think I am getting that and the baby Niacin samples, will sell on sets of those or individuals who want them.

AuroraPolaris Fri 03-Feb-17 21:25:10

Bo where the hell is my barrel of Lotus Oil???

I spoke to them whilst in Paris, they made very flimsy French excuses. I gave them the evil eye on your behalf and reminded them of our MN influencer status Grin.

WombattingFree Sat 04-Feb-17 11:29:22

Hi. I'm hoping someone can give some advice. I've tired to read as much as I can but I'm overseas and I'm struggling with my data allowance (the MN app uses a lot of this). So I previously washed morning and night with clean and clear, moisturised with coconut oil. That was my only skin routine. I had the contraceptive implant put in in May last year. Everything was fine until about November 2016. I got spotty, and welt like and it continued in a cycle. I had other terrible side affects from the implant (the usual kind without tmi) so I do believe the issues I've have with my skin are related to that and are hormonal.

But. I was walking past a shop in Sydney and got given a sample of this. I used it and it appears to be drying out my spots. My skin is clearer than it has been in months and this is the only thing that has changed. I'm assuming there is an active ingredient, possibly an alcoholic one. Can anyone suggest any moisturising creams that don't cost the earth that may be similar to this? I only used coconut oil because it was cheap and worked, I have no loyalty to specific brands! TIA

I just had to torture myself and check the prices on that brand. FFS! $200 moisturisers Shock made up of the most basic ingredients (no active ingredient whatsoever) and gold -hardly that expensive or proven much efficacy in skin care!

Ok your success with this moisturiser is most likely nothing to do with the actual product but your previous routine. I think you’re probably right in suspecting that the hormones and BC have put your skin into confusion. When your skin was fine and resilient, whilst not being an ideal, the Clean & Clear (harsh and stripping) and Coconut Oil (generally not recommended for skincare as it’s so heavy and highly comedogenic - please ignore everyone’s persistent miracle claims with this, it’s heavier in saturated fats than butter. It’s grease and only really suitable if you’re very dry with no other skin issues). The combination of those two -super stripping + super greasy- and the hormones were just a mismatch waiting to happen that will have exacerbated the issue.

I’m not sure what is cheap and affordable in Australia, the (to you) local brands I know here are all £££ here and I doubt it’s much cheaper there. Possibly Sukin is from there and affordable, I think, if you can give me a few locally affordable brands that spark your interest I’ll look into it. We could also go down the Asian Beauty route, don’t know how locally available it is but should be pretty affordable to get there. Also will need to know your skin type, I’m assuming you’re somewhere in the normal/combo-dehydrated sphere?

EnidButton Sun 05-Feb-17 00:40:53

Has this cleansing balm been mentioned on here before? It sounds ok to me and a much better price than my EH. www.merumaya.com/melting-cleansing-balm-100ml.html

That’s an odd one, Enid, mostly due to the inclusion of water so it’s less likely to be a traditional balm. I’m not a fan of the inclusion of fragrance but its presence appears to be minimal.

OP posts:
botemp · 06/02/2017 14:43

I went over the maximum character limit for MN Shock!

Tsmummy08 Sun 05-Feb-17 15:03:16

I've got a question for retinol users: I started using Skinceuticals 1% last year (after using a 0.3% product with no issues) and had to stop because it made my skin sore, very sensitive to being rubbed and virtually all products stung. I had a little flaking but not much.

Fast forward to this year: I've been using TO Retinoid 2% with no issues and decided to try mixing in the Skinceuticals again. I've been using it every other day and again my skin's got SO sensitive: even the Toleriane cleanser stings like a bastard and my skin hurts when I rub my eyes, for example. Is this normal and should I just persist hoping it's an adjustment and I'll be fine in a few weeks/months? I continued for a month or so last year before giving up....

I'd be interested in other experiences because I know retinol has such high efficacy and I want to incorporate it in some way....

As noted before, the percentages stated on Retinol prescribe to very creative marketing maths when it comes to OTC Retinol. The TO Retinoid contains 1% Pure Retinol and 1% Next Gen Retinol, together they make up 2%. Iirc they’re encapsulated (solubilised?) meaning they are less irritating and released slowly rather than an instantaneous delivery like the SC.

IME the TO Retinoid Complex is very gentle whilst being quite effective. Initially because of the clogging issues (later to be discovered as a combination issue with the Benton Steam Cream combo) I started using the TO RC on my body (retinoid virgin skin in comparison to the face) not expecting it to do much (as it hadn’t done anything special on my face, but I had been using Verso another very gentle next gen retinol for quite some time and I use it preventatively so no difference didn’t say much but also the body usually needs higher concentrations to see effect) but it was quite an instantaneous thing and left me quite impressed.

I’ve also been paged onto some other threads on the S&B board this weekend where people have been complaining about reaction to the 2% (though they’re using the 1% in the tube - this is a bit of a marketing issue in my eyes as that appears to be a good starter retinol by the uninitiated when it’s very much not as this is a direct delivery product that will make your face freak out instantly especially if you’re not introducing it gradually or using SPF).

I would not persist with the SC as it’s obvious that formulation is just a bad match for you, more suited to someone who has a built up tolerance or the type of skin that needs a lot thrown at it before it penetrates and is far from sensitive. I see no sense in pushing your skin this hard, harsh responses don’t equal that it’s working, it mostly means it’s irritating and sometimes this is an acceptable side effect in the short term for long term gain but when you have a gentler alternative of equal strength working for you I really lack to see the point.

Shop Sun 05-Feb-17 17:01:54

I've received the TO vit c a few days ago but struggling with it under makeup. I know I could use it at night but already use facetheory retinol & TO Azelaic at night. Does anyone have any ideas? Would mixing it with my day cream ruin the efficacy?

You can mix it in with your cream, I think you’ll lose a bit of efficacy but not immensely. The best way I’ve found TO Vit C 23% to work is three dots on my fingers, imprint on the other hand then dot it over the face before patting it in. Make sure skin is dry when starting and leave to settle for at least 30 seconds before moving onto the next step.

Pupsiecola Sun 05-Feb-17 17:23:55

That's so weird. I didn't add a link to Neostrata in my post!

I’m assuming this is happening on the app only, but FFS if MN is going to automatically add skimlinks to booster their affiliate sales without any acknowledgement I will seriously have to think about leaving this place! Angry

wiltingfast Sun 05-Feb-17 22:34:01

As for my cleansing oil search I thought this decleor one looked interesting…

Had to search a bit for the INCI (not official either so accuracy may be off):

Coco-Caprylate/Caprate, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, PEG-20,Glyceryl Trisostearate, Squalane, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond Oil), Fragrance, Benzyl Salicylate, BHT

Don’t know if I buy into the whole micellar aspect of it as it looks like any old oil emulsifying cleanser with a very premium price. Knowing Decleor it’ll be highly fragranced and it’s one that’s known to make people break out. Superdrug seem to sell something very similar, not one I’d recommend easily either due to fragrance, INCI is very similar though and I actually prefer the additional oils they use in that one over the Decleor:

C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Diethylhexyl Carbonate, PEG-20 Glyceryl Triisostearate, Parfum, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Punica Granatum (Pomegranate) Seed Oil, Salvia Hispanica (Chia) Seed Oil, Tocopheryl Acetate, Carotenoids, Tocopherol, Ascorbyl Palmitate

^The instructions on that one are very odd though.

user1471503992 Sun 05-Feb-17 23:17:29

I've been slowly introducing some TO products to the basic regime advised here, and so far the Nia made my skin look amazing after the first night, seemed to shrink my pores. My sister said I looked like I had foundation on. The seb fils on my nose and the pores on cheeks near nose look much better. It hasn't done much for the blackheads under my nose and on chin though, and PC isn't helping either, I have concluded I must have the wrong PC but their shipping was awful so the thought of waiting another 6 weeks is putting me off ordering a different sample. Should I be avoiding putting hydrating serums/moisturiser etc near blackhead areas, could these be counter-productive?
Which PC did you get for reference? A heavy occlusive moisturiser may not be helping blackheads but a light moisturiser/emulsion shouldn’t be exacerbating the issue nor should hydrating serums.

I've also tried TO rosehip on a bit of a whim, it makes my skin very soft and smooth but I think it might be a bit much for every night. I got Buffet too but I am trying to stick to the advice about introducing things slowly so only started this yesterday - no immediate crisis, but too soon to tell whether it suits me. These are actually my first ever attempts at any regular use of actives other than PC which doesn't work on me as above and so far I'm pretty impressed!

I’d say ease up with the Rosehip, perhaps keep it in drier areas, avoiding the more clog prone areas like the T and/or U-Zone(s).

OP posts:
hollinhurst84 · 06/02/2017 14:57

Bo - the merumaya is quite odd but I did stick it on my buy list
It's like a balm/gel and as you massage it, it goes more and more slippery but not like an oil. Definitely one of those you have to try to get what I mean, it doesn't compare to any other balm, oil or cleanser I've used before!!!

Tried a new HA today but it balled up under my makeup so had to take it off

Any advice on where I add the azealic (sp?!) acid in my routine? Currently using retinol at night alternated ha/b5 and niaci
Best in the am maybe but I don't want to screw my makeup up....

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