Had my first " your skin looks amazing" comment-- THANK YOU Caroline Hirons!

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A colleague said this at work today, I was so chuffed.
I'm 47 and was looking not so good. This last month I have invested in serums, acids and what not have gone back to Caroline Hirons properly this time. I have been religiously cleaning and tending to my face AM and PM. I use a 30% glycol peel every couple of weeks and use tretinoin every 3 days.
I must say even I have noticed a difference, it has knocked years off me.
All blemishes gone, skin is ultra smooth, wrinkles reduced.
There is hope for us more (ahem) mature ladies!

frowns img now I have another forum to spend hours and hours on . Jesus, my poor kids. I need to have a decent stock of cleansers . I only have oils and balms, all but one I make myself . I want to make my own exfoliating cleanser using an scid so that site will be useful.

Right, I'm about to purchase the SR Skincare vit-C serum. Tis very cheap so that'll help me stick to my budget. Retin -A on its way. Still pondering the Olay Regenerist serum too, it has good reviews on Paula's choice (and one of the cheapest).

Can I use two different serums?

What's this Hylamide that is mentioned?

buttons haha glad to be of help. If on your diy travels you come across a dupe or recipe for this give me a shout. The cost is prohibitive but I found it awesome for my pigmentation issues. I want something with kojic acid.

this thread has been amazing. I have also been shopping and have a couple of questions!
So I have my old faithful REN cleanser AM, followed by new REN clarimatte toner, follwed by protect and perfect serum, then REN day cream, then City block (think its caused some pimples).

PM Exsting Eve Lom cleanser followed by REN cleanser. THen I have bought Nip and Fab pads and also REN AHA concentrate. These are both acids but I think the REN is more of a serum? Although its not called a serum - does anyone use this, can you tell me what category of product it is? Do I use as well as the Nip and Fab toner pads? I have seen directions that say use for 7 days on then 14 days off, and follow with a night serum. So it is a serum or a toner?

Then if I follow that with a serum and a night cream, does it go double cleanse, toner pads, AHA stuff, protect and perfect serum, night cream? Seems an awful lot of stuff!

I also want to get a nice Vit C serum for the morning, I used body shop one years ago which felt lovely, is this any good?

Another Q, what is BB cream? Or CC cream? Is this a make up thing? I was recommended one at Benefit last week when I was asking about facial SPF. Can it be used as my only SPF or would I still need my city block? Don't know whether to buy this BB cream I see everywhere. Any recommendations?

And one more thing, this Hylamidestuff, is that in place of a toner or a serum? Just thinking I might buy some in a few weeks when I have a bit more cash.

And lastly - Years ago I saw that programme that said Boots Protect and Perfect was the only anti aging product that works. Reading this thread it appears that is bollocks?! I haven't seen it mentioned here once, its not on CH's blog. Is it pants? Because I have 4 tubes of it to use up! Is it a retinoid?

I'm still a bit clueless as you can see! Thanks for all the tips so far and tia for all these Qs!

I would skip the acid toner if using that REN stuff. I've just had a look at the website. use the Nip+Fab pads on the 14 days off. It's more of a treatment than a serum, so yes, follow with usual serum and moisturiser.

BB and CC creams are make up. I like the Garnier BB cream, but that's the only one I've used! They are like tinted moisturisers, really, but fancier. If you used enough of it, all over your face it could replace SPF, but most people don't use enough of it to cover you, if you see what I mean?

Not sure about the retinoid stuff, so I'll leave the other questions to the knowledgeable girls!

ilovetosleep this is my understanding of your questions:

There is no definition of a serum but it's usually something with a light consistency that contains extra ingredients working on the problem of your choice. Sadly there are many serums that are just bits of moisturiser labelled 'serum' to make us spend more money but nevermind. The REN AHA concentrate looks like a strong acid treatment more along the peel line or Alpha-H Liquid Gold. So a good product but not a serum or a toner, but more like a toner not sure I am making sense now

So your routine would go double cleanse, either pads or AHA stuff not both, serum, night cream.

BB and CC cream are makeup with extra skin care claims, like sexed up tinted moisturiser. My view is they are trying to do too many things at once. I wouldn't rely on them to be my only SPF either as you will be applying them v thinly like foundation so not in the amounts needed to get the SPF claimed - and most have too low an amount anyway.

Hylamide for which I think I should get commission is made by the person who used to be responsible for Indeed Labs which make CH favourites such as Hydraluron and Peptabright. Apparently he's had a non-competition agreement with them for a few years after he left but is now free to do what he really wants. I've always liked the way Indeed Labs has focussed on science not beauty marketing crap so was v excited about this. Hydraluron was sold as an extra step to serum and moisturiser, being just hyaluronic acid and mega hydrating. I haven't found it hydrating at all However I'm excited about Hylamide as it should be hydrating and serum all in one step as it has both hydraluronic and peptides, and in the Vit C version that as well. So if I like it, it should be my dream product. So far used once, liked it but need a few weeks to really decide.

Will do another post about No7 serum and antiageing as that's a long answer and this is already a long post

My GP just prescribed me retin A as my antibiotics stopped working. He didn't want to give it to me but I told him I would buy some off eBay (already ordered some) and he would rather prescribe it for me so he can review my skin instead of buying it online.

He told me to use it every day straight away though

So is Boots No 7 Protect and Perfect the only product that works - clearly that's bollocks. It was featured in a BBC Horizon programme and has good evidence it helps wrinkles but that programme was in 2007 and beauty manufacturers aren't idiots so they can all make similar products by now.

The ingredients in Boots No 7 are retinol and peptides, so any other product with these in probably works as well.

CH has a great cheat sheet about what does and doesn't work:

www.carolinehirons.com/2010/08/beauty-mouth-dissects-anti-ageing.html

Note it's all based around ingredients not 'serum' or 'oil' or 'moisturiser'. Obvs some ingredients lend themselves to particular product types but a serum isn't any good just because it's a serum, you need to be an ingredient obsessive.

In CH's list there is SPF (preventer, won't repair damage already done), retinol and acids (only things proven to actually change things under the skin surface), Vitamin C and E (again preventers) and niacinamide. And that's it.

There may be evidence for other anti-oxidants, peptides and ceramides. But oils, moisturisers, hyaluronic are just doing daily fluffing up, they aren't changing or improving anything in the longer term.

Being a bit obsessed I then built my routine around these ingredients:

Cleanser - no fancy ingredients as they are washed straight off, balnd and non-foaming. So far liked Cetaphil and LRP Physiological Cleansing Gel.

Toner - acids. Paula's Choice 2% BHA or Clinique Mild Exfoliating Lotion. Paula's Choice had extra anti-oxidants + Vit E

Serum - not cracked this yet. Hydraluron I've moaned about enough. Didn't like the SR SKincare Vit C serum. Intend to try Hylamide both the peptide one and the Vit C one, plus a Paula's Choice

Retinol - went for Retin-A

Moisturiser - Cerave - ceramides + niacinamide + hyaluronic

SPF - Sunsense - had niacinamide, prob liked Heliocare better which has other anti-oxidants. About to try Avon Anew e-defence which is more anti-oxidants again.

As you can see, I've spent way too long thinking about this

U2TheEdge fantastic! Please ignore the advice about using it daily straightaway though Work up over a few weeks, every time you get flakes slow down.

I totally agree with you kundry

As well as my diy vit c and ferric acid serum I also have a homemade NAG serum.
I use home made oils/balms to cleanse ( mostly). I have just got the bravura clay cleanser and that is LOVELY. The best thing I have ever used though is a lush ultra bland dupe I made courtesy of some lovely google person!
I hate looking at ingredients with a list as long as your arm and knowing that there's a lot of unnecessary ,nasty stuff in there. I don't want to put that on my face.
I want to look at the list and understand, oils- yep, butters,-yep, glycerine-yep, water-yep various vits- yep, acids- yep, emulsifer- yep etc. Obviously not all in one product. If I don't understand what's in it I don't want to put it on my face any more than I would eat something I didn't know about.

ferulic even

cathyandclare just seen you post. That's fab news, so pleased for you!

kundry you sure know your stuff when it comes to skincare my goodness! Are you in the industry? If not, you should be

That's brilliant cathyandclaire! It must be wonderful to be complimented on your skin

Am so so not in the industry but thank-you!

Having never shown any interest in skincare whatsoever (didn't even wash my face) until the age of 38 I had a massive mid-life crisis when I developed a wrinkle. Which I thought was rude given I still had acne. Honestly, had no idea I would think it that important.

A friend of mine raves about Paula's Choice skincare so I started there and have literally read every page of the Expert Advice on her US website (better than the UK one). Then Mumsnet was doing a Dr Sam Bunting Q+A and I was so impressed, I became a Dr Sam junkie - read all her blog, followed her on twitter etc. And was staggered to find that if you follow her advice, your skin looks amazeballs. Up til then I'd been convinced the beauty industry was a bunch of con artists - I still kind of feel that as I believe there are good products out there but they go out of their way to make it confusing to make us spend more money.

And then I read CH's blog from beginning to end I'd also recommend another American blogger called Hot and Flashy who is v serious about ingredients and has done loads of research. Although the products aren't always available she explains her choices v clearly and is great to follow for advice on Retin-A etc as she has it prescribed.

Finally I was and am trying to lose weight. Skincare is a fun treat with no calories

I could read your advice all day Kundry! You explain things so well, it's obvious skincare is a passion for you.

I am 38 now, maybe it's a late 30's thing, i don't know! But I saw an old id of mine from 6 years ago, recently, and it suddenly dawned on me how much I had aged in those 6 years, especially those marionette (sp?) lines. This coincides with having my first child actually .

I'm off to google Hot and Flashy now

OMFG she's 52!!! . She looks incredible.

I know!!!! I luffs her

She does go high tec though - she's had botox and fillers and IPL. But she looks really really natural and uses mid-range products to save her cash for the fillers etc. And she explains why she chooses her stuff really well I am basically just copying the people I've listed above, if they're wrong I'm screwed

Can I use liquid gold/ serums on the days I'm not using the Retin A? Or will it be too much for my skin?

I guess I would skip the PM toner and serums and just cleanse and put on Retin after 3o mins or so? And the days I'm not using it I can cleanse, tone, serum and liquid gold once or twice a week.

I am finding this confusing.

Interesting. Reading Paula's choice on Ret A she says research has shown that is SHOULD be used with vit c. This flies in the face of all former advice. So should I apply my vit c serum at night before using the tretinoin?

Thank you Kundry! You are brilliant. Thanks for answering all my Qs so thoroughly. One more thing then! Is the REN AHA concentrate stuff a liquid gold equivalent? I don't need to buy that as well do I!?

I don't think I need hardcore Retinoids yet, or maybe I do - I am 33, a few fine lines around my eyes, v few spots, just one or two on my chin every few weeks. I do have what I can only describe as open pore/uneven skin on my forehead. I'm getting sucked into all this talk of Retin-A - but I haven't really got to grips with who exactly needs it. Basically I look dull tired and am showing early signs of ageing, but I'm hoping the acids will do the job for now. (and my 4 tubes of Protect and Perfect!)

Um question should you avoid high dose retin A if you are trying to conceive? I know you should avoid high dose vit A orally but doesn't this apply to topical treatments. With tretanoin is causes birth defects....?

hello all, spent a lot longer than my lunch hour reading the thread and now on CH's cheat sheets.

Have been on the low carb bootcamp since Jan so ditched the sugar - check! now need to follow the rest of the advice....

I am overseas so can't get all the lovely products I am seeing on here but I do have access to the odd Olay/Nutrogena product and a massive range of Eminence Organics - are any of you ladies familiar with this range and if so can help me narrow it down a bit to what I need?

I've been following this thread from the start, but now I am on a work trip, in a big city, with an hour to kill at the beauty counters tomorrow morning. So the opportunity is there but I cannot for the life of me work out what products to get.

I'm OK for cleanser, serum and moisturiser, but need a toner and possibly a night serum/oil, and now I am thinking also that REN AHA stuff (I like their stuff anyway). Or have I missed something essential? I have dry skin and am 49, and utterly bewildered.

Kundry what's your recommendation for spf that's non comidegenic please?!! I've bought cetaphil as cleanser and have just ordered my retin a. I'm also undecided on toner or moisturiser but don't want to be spotty!