bra help. . . m and s lady actually laughed at me

[JustLikeHeaven]

Hi there, I read the posts on correct bra fitting. I'm 31 and 38. Off I went to m and s, delighted with myself. Only to be sneered at. When the door dragon noticed I had a 32 Fs in hand, she actually put her arm out and said, where are you going with those, you're at least a 36C. i thanked her and said I had been given good advise and knew what I was doing. She sneered at me, and said you don't have a clue. Then have me a fake smile. Seriously?

So, more important than her bad attitude. . Am I trying. The right size. I did all the scoping but there was still a lot of unattractive under arm fat. I'm squishy of torso so tthere's going to be fat. i left without buying it. . . Though pretended to dragon lady that I was.

Any tips for me please?

Ah, 36ff? Really? Is that why all my m&s 40a's look awful and I haven't bought a new bra for years?!

Really?! Bloody hell. Thank you so much Hazlenut!

Yeh I know the stretch line & I don't buy it. Lycra/elastene has been used since the 50s, if you've seen elastene underwear from that time, it's very stretchy. I don't think my bras are more stretchy now than they were in the 80s.

And if you take jeans - elastene makes them more stretchy and comfortable, it doesn't necessarily mean you need a smaller size.

On the other hand I see an awful lot of women wearing bras with band sizes too small that dig into their back fat. It's not a good look.

The real reason for back fat here

Well when I am measured by eye, by an expert bra fitter, they put me in a 30 back. Which is what I measure round my back with a tape measure.

This adding four inches is bollocks, it really is. A back width that fits your back, a cup size that fits your boobs. It is not difficult.

but Twinklestein they were already measuring this way in the 80s. My mother is 80 years old and has had her bra measurements done 'the mumsnet way' since at least the 1970s, possibly even the 60s, but the difference was that when she ran out of cup sizes she had to go up in the back to get it to fit round her. Now she can get a bra that actually fits.

The bra being too tight and giving back fat isn't usually because the back measurement is too small, it's because the overall measurement, including the cups, is too small. It's like being 5 ft 11 and a size 12 and declaring that size 12 short length doesn't fit, therefore the measuring system doesn't work. When in actual fact size 12 long might fit just fine.

The real reason for back fact is being slightly fat to be fair...

But having a too-tight bra doesn't help.

[I]Some[/I] bra manufacturers have been measuring bra size the mumsnet way for 30 years or so & some haven't...

As I said before - Rigby & Peller don't go by what you think your size is, but purely by eye. There's such a wide variation of sizing between manufacturers having a set size doesn't really work.

I have a 30 inch back size, & I've been assessed by expert bra fitters from a 28 to a 32.

I measure 36 around my back yet wear a 32 or 34 back. M&S tried to put me in a 40

Yes the best fitters fit by eye - but on average and bearing in mind the variance between bras/brand, a fitting at Bravissimo or Rigby will come out with a band size very close to your underbust measurement.

We're always telling people that it's a starting point, but starting with what you measure will get you in the right ballpark where you can work out what to adjust. Adding 5" won't.

Twinklestein The range of sizes you mention is exactly what one would expect to try using what you call 'the Mumsnet method' (one that has in fact been used by decades - it was invented in the 1940s) , because brands and styles vary. Similarly, one would expect to try one cup size larger or smaller. All bodies are different; there are hundreds of different bra designs. It's the experience of seeing so many different female shapes, and the detailed knowledge of their merchandise, that makes expert fitters at (eg) Rigby and Peller able to fit by eye.

Re back fat, here is a USA video:
www.herroom.com/minimizing-back-fat,1050,30.html

I've just noticed that the same site also offers a bra size calculator : www.herroom.com/bra-fitting-advice,901,30.html

I just tried it and it came up with exactly the same size (band and cup) as the bra I am wearing right now (which is very comfortable, with no back fat). That was fitted according to what you call 'the Mumsnet method'.

There is also this exhaustive guide:
www.herroom.com/bra-fitting-advice,909,30.html

Finally:

"A 2012 study by White and Scurr University of Portsmouth ...found that 76% of women overestimated their band and 84% underestimated their cup size. When women wear bras with too big a band, breast support is reduced. Too small a cup size may cause skin irritation. They noted that "ill-fitting bras and insufficient breast support can lead to the development of musculoskeletal pain and inhibit women participating in physical activity." The study recommended that women should be educated about the criteria for finding a well-fitting bra. They recommended that women measure under their bust to determine their band size rather than the traditional over the bust measurement method.[72]

[72] White, J.; Scurr, J (2012). "Evaluation of professional bra fitting criteria for bra selection and fitting in the UK". Ergonomics 55 (6): 1–8. doi:10.1080/00140139.2011.647096."
source:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassiere_measurement

I'm similar measurements to you and I take a 28G so M&S woman was definitely right out. I would look for a small independent lingerie shop near you and go in knowing approximately what size you are and how to check a bra fits. A good bra fitter will know the different makes of bra so they may bring out a smaller back or cup size because that make/style of bra fits differently to the others.

M&S are notorious for being useless at measuring and arsy about it.

They tried to put me in a 36 back. I'm a 30 / 32 depending on brand. Always have been. I wasn't even fat at the time 5', size 8 and a 30F. .I never went back.

Finally convinced my mother out of there (she was convinced she was a 36C and is now much more comfortable in a 32 DD / E)

I'm in Dublin OP and I'm afraid that I don't buy bras here at all. I order mine from Ample Bosom and I always buy the same brand (Empreinte) because I know it fits well and it's good enough quality that the size on the label is the size that it actually is every time. They take returns so if I try a new style, or if I think I've changed size, and a new bra doesn't fit I can send it back.

I wouldn't even go and get measured- why would you need to? Go off what your measurements tell you you are and buy a bra in that size. I've been to trillions of shops and just picked up bras to try (I know my size, trying on for style) and no-one has ever tried to dissuade me or even noticed what size I have chosen.

And definitely complain to m and s. Cheeky so and so.

I'm over 100 miles from the nearest Bravissimo, so I order from Ample Bosom too. Have always found them very helpful.
Don't go by their name - they deal with a very wide range of sizes.

Arnotts measure correctly - I'm 30f there - but agree bra selection isn't fantastic. Clerys is alright too. M&S are shocking, can't believe the years I spent in ill fitting bras because of them!

Florascotia

The mumsnet method would have me bang on 30, I find some too tight, and I have some 34inch bras from said expert bra fitters.

I'm sure you're a nice person but I have absolutely no interest in your googling nor earnest research showing that some women wear poorly fitting bras. No shit Sherlock.

Twinklestein I'm a big fan of R&P, however they put both my DM and DSiL in bras that were too big in the band. Not all 'expert bra fitters' get it right all of the time.

I still need to go to bravisimo, but doing the magic mn bra method I look so much better. Yes, I have bulgy fat bits, but pretty sure no one notices that, not with the new perky boobs taking up all their attention.

Better a bit of chub and perky boobs than saggy everything. Thank you mn bra gurus.

How tight a band must be depends on the size of your breasts and how heavy they are.
For a proper fit I need a wide tight band, as my boobs are very heavy, more than big, and must get a proper lift.
And the links before showed more than that many women still wear the wrong bra size.

Well, thanks everyone. And I have to agree with the poster who said... back fat... a sign of being a bit fat. Yup. That's about right.

I'm going to use the mumsnet way, take lots of bras into the fitting room, lots of patience and hopefully come home with a bra that has my boobs where they're supposed to be.

Twinklestein of course you must go your own way.There are of course exceptions to every rule, and of course I respect your own personal experience. However, this thread must suggest that the majority of posters here - and countless women in Europe and the USA - do find what you call 'the Mumsnet way' helpful, in spite of your own reservations. I only added references to show that what I was saying was not simply my personal opinion.
But many thanks for saying that you think I might be nice. That's very good of you. But really, what I'm after is some degree of collective objectivity that might help women to find what's best for them easily and simply. The current situation re bra fitting in UK/Europe/USA is quite ridiculously complicated and contradictory. Hence threads like this ...