Moving children from one area to another?

[shakeyandunsure]

Does anyone have any experience of a mother (custodial parent) moving children (teenagers, happily settled in senior school) to a completely different area (200+ miles away) for, as far as I can see, totally selfish reasons (new bloke [how long will that last???] and not wanting their dad too involved in their lives)

Their dad pays for everything (which would stop if they moved) and they are happy where they are. One child is obviously upset about the idea, the other one doesn't seem so bothered.

Not sure if dad has parental responsibility. They were married when kids were born and divorced in 2002.

Any ideas?

Am going to post this in Lone Parents too.

Dh's ex moved about 80 miles away when the children were 8 and 6, so quite different.
She also refused ot bring them visit so dh always visits them, meaning they don't have a particularly strong relationship with our dds.
They come and stay here for birthdays and christmas but it eats up most of the weekend in travelling.
They are now 15 and 16 so have their own onterests and lives but dh still visits every other weekend minimum.

Whilst dh wasn't that happy about it, he figured that if his ex was happy, the children were more likely to be happy.

But he was always concerned that if she met someone else and moved again, it could get quite difficult.

I think he'll have automatic PR as they were married when the kids were born.

Up until Dec 2003, unmarried dads didn't automatically get PR, even if named on birth cert, but after that date, they get it if they're named (if that makes sense ?)

My partner's ex moved his kids 140 miles away - admittedly when they were smaller, but again, for "selfish" reasons, i.e. she didn't have to move for affordable housing or for work purposes. This has made logistics very difficult - and hugely expensive - as she has adopted a "you want to see them you come and get them" attitude, and has made picking up/dropping off as awkward as hell on numerous occasions. It also means it's all but impossible for him to be involved in many aspects of his kids' lives, like school plays etc as the distance means a whole day off work for such things.

I wouldn't necessarily say that moving a distance away has to be an absolute disaster but it depends upon the willingness of the parent with care to be co-operative and reasonable (and, IMO, morally, the parent doing the moving - except in genuinely unavoidable circumstances - should carry a greater moral obligation to see that contact is facilitated and maintained as they've created the distance ...... but in my partner's case he's had no co-operation at all and various periods of alienation have been exacerbated by the miles).

IME there is no reason why the DCs and their dad can't continue to have a good regular relationship. It will, of course, help if the DCs' mother co-operates a bit, but that isn't essential. We, and several other families I know, drive such distances (four times obviously) every other weekend or more often to fetch and take back DCs/DSCs. It seems like a long time in the car for the DCs but they all seem to be used to it and not to mind...in fact we see it as good quality one-to-one, catching up time! And yes parents evenings etc do take up a full day, and that's a pain!

Why won't the father continue to provide to the same extent if the DCs move away?

I guess I'm trying to be encouraging...to say it isn't the end of the world or anything, but will just take a little more planning and organisation and petrol!

And it DOES happen - quite often - and not unreasonably so. i'm not sure that two people who were once married and had DCs together should necessarily both feel that they can never move away from the area . In the case of our family, DH and I, DH's ex and DCs, ExH, and ExH's DSCs live miles and miles apart and we all make it work very well - our carbon footprint is terrible though!!

It won't be the same though will it, having your children over 200 miles away. That's what a 3 hour drive at least? So a 6 hour round trip twice on a weekend, when they'll probably need to be doing homework and not worn out by travelling. Or travelling to them and staying in hotels? Yes you can make it work, you have to, but it's not ideal at all IMO.

And I didn't read it that he's going to stop paying for things, but that they will stop doing things. I'm assuming hobbies and clubs.

mm, i think this is a hard one because there are several aspects to it aren't there...

The first is whether the mother is simply being very selfish, which may well be the case, but I wouldn't want to judge on that one at all because it's impossible without every single fact. However, you'd have thought that unless she has to move NOW, she could have waited a few years? On the other hand, maybe she feels strongly that she can give them a better life elsewhere...none of us can judge.

BUT the ExH has no control over this. he'd be very unlikely to get any sort of court order stopping them from going. Although I agree with mrsjammi that maybe the DCs could be given a say in who they live with? However it probably boils down to making the best of the situation. And my point is that that is not in any way impossible. It can be logistically difficult and heavy on time and the pocket, but it can work okay.

Another aspect is HOW you make it work...and I would have thought that the answer to that is as amicably as possible! IME one of the most difficult things about this situation, particularly given that the DCs are teenagers, might be the rigidity of their weekends - you know when a party or something is in one place and they are in another.

FWIW I struggled with this decision for a very long time, coming in the end to the decision that my DCs needed to stay where they were already happy (at school etc). I guess I feel a teensy bit defensive because I would not have expected to be judged for it if I'd decided that as a family we'd have been better off elsewhere. But equally I have absolutely no problem with their father living wherever he likes as long as he makes our DCs' welfare a priority.

Hi Shakey

Do you know the existing agreement?

Does anyone have any experience of a mother (custodial parent) moving children (teenagers, happily settled in senior school) to a completely different area (200+ miles away) for, as far as I can see, totally selfish reasons (new bloke [how long will that last???] and not wanting their dad too involved in their lives)

Are you the parent involved?

Their dad pays for everything (which would stop if they moved) and they are happy where they are. One child is obviously upset about the idea, the other one doesn't seem so bothered.

Why would he stop the payment?

Not sure if dad has parental responsibility. They were married when kids were born and divorced in 2002.

Any ideas?

Am going to post this in Lone Parents t

Thankyou all for the advice and replies.

No, I am not either parent in this situation. But I am part of their family. Perhaps one reason I feel so lost about it. I simply cannot fathom how it would be possible to have the sort of relationship with them as we (extended family) do now.

I can't even see how it would work with 'just' their dad - their mother ensures they have activities EVERY weekend that she will not allow them to miss, but their dad works and, well, I just can't see the logistics working that well.

I feel her motivation is selfish primarily because this has happened before and their dad ended up moving over 200 miles in order to maintain relationships with his kids. It strikes me as relevant that this last year is the first in many where their dad has actually got everything 'sorted'.

As far as I can see, it would be a massive unheaval for everyone involved.
The kids would have to move to a new (and very different) school
Dad would have to travel at least EOW (there is no point in even mooting the idea that his ex will do ANY travelling. she won't)
This will affect both his work comittments and all of the children's extended family.
In fact, the only person who would seem to benefit in any way shape or form is their mother.

Having thought about it much more, I can see there is nothing I can do to change anything now. So it will be a case of wait and see how things work out.

Have a look here for some ideas, from Michael Robinson's 'custody minefield' website;

www.thecustodyminefield.com/11.html

Internal Relocation

x

One of the hardest set of circumstances for parents and the court is where one parent seeks to move some distance from the other, and the move will disrupt the relationship and/or time that the child(ren) spend with their other parent.

x

If the parent wishing to move has sole residence, they do not normally have to seek the court's permission to do so, although the practicality of arrangements set down in any existing contact order may make an application to the court necessary to vary the contact pattern. In such circumstances, the non-resident parent may have chosen to apply to the courts for a prohibitive steps order (to prevent the move) and/or have applied for residence (so that the child will come to live with them, should the other parent carry through their plan to move).

x

A number of choices are available to the parent seeking to prevent their child from moving:

Accept that the children will move, and seek a contact order which ensures that lost parenting time is made up through an increase in holiday time (as seen in the case law Re: F) or weekends (if practical).
0.
Apply for shared residence with midweek parenting time so as to make the move impractical (as seen in the case Re T, although it should be noted that in that case, there was a pre-existing shared residence order);
0.
To apply for sole residence.
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To apply for shared residence, with the child spending term time with themselves, and residing with the other parent during school holidays.
0.
We would always urge that before heading to court, parents enter mediation.

The preferred choice and its possibility of success is dependent on the parents' individual circumstances. Of the four choices, it is my opinion that the court will be least likely to favour option 2, as this restricts one parent's movement

I agree that if they are teenagers they can decide for themselves which parent they live with. The dad maybe has to look at whether he could practically have the children living with him and if so offer that as a choice to the children maybe getting solicitors involved.
Teenagers tend to have less contact with either parent as they get older, spending more time with their friends, they also tend to stop going to alot of organised activities and just want to hang out, plus they will get more homework.
I presume these are young teenagers if their mum is still organising their weekends for them.
If mum's boyfriend has to work elsewhere in the UK then moving to be near him isn't that unreasonable. Mum has a right to a happy emotional/sexual life and is maybe aware that the children are getting older and will soon be leaving home and that she has to consider her own needs and desires as well.
I would hate to be in the dad's position, but suspect as they become older he'd be seeing less of them anyway as they become independant.

Hi,

I moved 170+ miles away from my children's father last year and started a new life (not because of a new partner just wanted a fresh start) My children have settled really well into their new school's and they have come on so well since moving it was the best thing I did for them, I drive my children to see their dad(he doesn't drive but he pays the petrol) three weekends out of four and they see him for the day, We get there at about 11am and i drop them to him and i go and see my friends while they are with him and pick them up about 5pm, In the school holidays they are going to stay with his parents for a week and 2 weeks with him, I don't know how amicable his ex is but we have made it work without courts etc it can be done goodluckx