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Original poster

Drop in income means drop in maintenence- or aibu?

296 replies

goldensquaresofjoy · 10/08/2023 08:42

Name changed recently as I posted on style and beauty and someone might recognise the outfit!

Anyway. DH works contracts- he always has. His pay increases or stays the same with each contract. It lasts about 2-3 years per contract. He increases his maintenence payments in line with the cms calculator each time.

He is struggling to find the next contract- demand has fallen and competition for the roles has increased. So he's started looking into permanent positions. These all seem to come with a lower salary.

He's started applying and gave the ex a heads up that in 3 months he's going to have to look at the maintenance and as he's looking for a permanent position for stability it will probably go down.

All hell has broken loose - she claims maintenance should stay the same even if I have to subsidise it.

For info as I know everyone hates a drip feed. he and I both have well paid jobs. We have one shared DC. We have mortgage. Ex works term time only (not a teacher) and has no mortgage or rental commitments. DSC are all at secondary school.

Aibu to think its ridiculous for her to expect him to keep a career decision made 15+ years ago when they were together and she'll just have to accept the drop on maintenance?

OP posts:
LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 16:18

And child support is not a 'gravy train' ffs!

RedRosette2023 · 10/08/2023 16:18

LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 16:18

And child support is not a 'gravy train' ffs!

For some it really is.

MeridianB · 10/08/2023 16:25

LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 16:17

That's not quite right though. Parents go have financial obligations to their dc post 18. Some people have it written into their divorce settlement that they will continue CS while the kids are in full time education.
As unfair as it is, what children can borrow for university costs is calculated on parental income. Parents are expected to top up any shortfall.
The kids could theoretically end up borrowing less because mum gets a ft job - will dad be topping up the difference?

If there is nothing prescribed in a divorce settlement then child maintenance stops and it's up to the parents what they pay to their 18+ child to help with finances. Presumably there is some discussion in advance about whether university is affordable.

But this is not the situation the OP is asking about.

LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 16:27

With the little so many men seem to pay, I doubt it is for the majority.

Mum might be swimming in money, but she still has a right to expect half of the true costs of raising the children to be met by their father.

Dad has a duty to give all his children the same standard of living.
I do understood the OP's reluctance to use her own money for this.
But the kids will notice whether supporting them is a priority for their dad or not. They will see where his money goes and it will affect them. So to me CS is one of the last things you cut, even if the ex wife is a pita!

LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 16:31

OP might be thinking it all stops at 18 and that's not quite true.
A lot of parents are very unpleasantly surprised when the university situation comes around - a lot don't know just how much money they'll be expected to pay. Might as well give her a heads up, especially since the kids are teens and it comes around quickly.

If the kids at 16 moved in with dad, their loan would be calculated on his household income (iirc) and they might not be able to borrow as much because the OP earns well. Now she's under no expectation to top up, but dad would be. It's worth thinking about when considering child maintenance and mother's income etc. This might be something she's considered re working ft.

RedRosette2023 · 10/08/2023 16:33

LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 16:27

With the little so many men seem to pay, I doubt it is for the majority.

Mum might be swimming in money, but she still has a right to expect half of the true costs of raising the children to be met by their father.

Dad has a duty to give all his children the same standard of living.
I do understood the OP's reluctance to use her own money for this.
But the kids will notice whether supporting them is a priority for their dad or not. They will see where his money goes and it will affect them. So to me CS is one of the last things you cut, even if the ex wife is a pita!

I agree it isn’t necessarily for the majority but for some it is. I definitely know of RL examples of women resisting 50:50 because of the impact that would have financially.

i agree with your second point to - except to say the difficulty can be exactly what is “half” when parents have different values and value different sorts of expenditure.

The kids living in OP’s home will equally notice if theyre experiencing a drop in lifestyle whilst sustaining their half siblings.

Uptoyou34 · 10/08/2023 16:33

LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 16:27

With the little so many men seem to pay, I doubt it is for the majority.

Mum might be swimming in money, but she still has a right to expect half of the true costs of raising the children to be met by their father.

Dad has a duty to give all his children the same standard of living.
I do understood the OP's reluctance to use her own money for this.
But the kids will notice whether supporting them is a priority for their dad or not. They will see where his money goes and it will affect them. So to me CS is one of the last things you cut, even if the ex wife is a pita!

Yes he does...and that's why he is presumably having to lower CMS because he isn't earning as much. There is nothing here to suggest the Dad is spending more on his shared DC with his partner than the one shared with ex wife.

DC's and DSC's will always have different lifestyles though because of new partners and other circumstances, which is fine. His joint DC may well have a better 'lifestyle' because their OP is a higher earner.

EekGoesTheBaby · 10/08/2023 16:34

kirinm · 10/08/2023 10:58

Happy to take the ups? When she's looking after children who are also his?!

Show quote history

Yes, and who are also hers. When he had an increase in pay due to longer hours, more stress, etc., the amount of work on her side remained the same. We also later find out from the OP that her DP wanted to do 50/50 or be the residential parent.

Original poster
goldensquaresofjoy · 10/08/2023 16:35

LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 16:17

That's not quite right though. Parents go have financial obligations to their dc post 18. Some people have it written into their divorce settlement that they will continue CS while the kids are in full time education.
As unfair as it is, what children can borrow for university costs is calculated on parental income. Parents are expected to top up any shortfall.
The kids could theoretically end up borrowing less because mum gets a ft job - will dad be topping up the difference?

The kids uni fund is all sorted.

OP posts:
gogomoto · 10/08/2023 16:45

Child maintenance and a total amount is not really enough unless you are a very high earner because it's based on percentage of income. Even paying £500 to cover kids costs is not enough in my personal experience. My exh thankfully is a good guy and pays maintenance for the dc still in education without grumbling. He'll pay until she's earning (sn so no guarantees)

Original poster
goldensquaresofjoy · 10/08/2023 16:45

gogomoto · 10/08/2023 16:45

Child maintenance and a total amount is not really enough unless you are a very high earner because it's based on percentage of income. Even paying £500 to cover kids costs is not enough in my personal experience. My exh thankfully is a good guy and pays maintenance for the dc still in education without grumbling. He'll pay until she's earning (sn so no guarantees)

You think two kids cost £1000 a month?

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 10/08/2023 16:52

My kids cost way more that £1000 a month. That would cover their dancing plus bus pass.

But it's moot. Kids cost what their parents can afford.

RedRosette2023 · 10/08/2023 16:52

goldensquaresofjoy · 10/08/2023 16:45

You think two kids cost £1000 a month?

Show quote history

People who say these things look at the household expenses as being just attributed to the kids and forgetting that the parents, plus any other members of that house also live there. £500 is plenty for one child in a house! The adults in the house would still need somewhere to live etc.

RedRosette2023 · 10/08/2023 16:53

arethereanyleftatall · 10/08/2023 16:52

My kids cost way more that £1000 a month. That would cover their dancing plus bus pass.

But it's moot. Kids cost what their parents can afford.

In that case we can’t afford our kids.

Funny that we are doing pretty well despite that…!

Original poster
goldensquaresofjoy · 10/08/2023 16:53

RedRosette2023 · 10/08/2023 16:52

People who say these things look at the household expenses as being just attributed to the kids and forgetting that the parents, plus any other members of that house also live there. £500 is plenty for one child in a house! The adults in the house would still need somewhere to live etc.

Show quote history

Ah I see. Yes that's what threw me.

OP posts:
uneffingbelievable · 10/08/2023 17:27

So OP can snipe at a mother who lost her parents - making out she has it easy because she does not have mortgage and rent to pay but gets upset if someone thinks those comments are nasty.

Mum will get less that is life, but all the other bitchy comments bout her working school time only, having new DP - so she has not done it all on her own, being unreasonable for not letting theri DF be primary parent because it suited him more, then the ultimate drip feed-she of course had the affair. He now pays £1000pcm and the drop is only £100 pcm really

OP she is wrong with regard to you contributing but the rest your drip feed is so bad, who the hell knows. YOur comments re her parents - unacceptable

aSofaNearYou · 10/08/2023 17:29

arethereanyleftatall · 10/08/2023 16:52

My kids cost way more that £1000 a month. That would cover their dancing plus bus pass.

But it's moot. Kids cost what their parents can afford.

Yes but that's where the arguments come from a lot of the time. RP thinks the kids cost what they say they cost, but beyond the basics that it isn't the case. We couldn't and wouldn't spend anywhere near that much on a child's hobby, it's a choice that generally the RP makes.

arethereanyleftatall · 10/08/2023 17:35

For us, @aSofaNearYou, it's a choice both myself and my ex make. They love dancing, and it keeps them off their phones! Financially, he isn't an arsehole. We did the sums, for our girls, the cms calculator doesn't get anywhere near.

aSofaNearYou · 10/08/2023 17:36

arethereanyleftatall · 10/08/2023 17:35

For us, @aSofaNearYou, it's a choice both myself and my ex make. They love dancing, and it keeps them off their phones! Financially, he isn't an arsehole. We did the sums, for our girls, the cms calculator doesn't get anywhere near.

Yes, and that's fair enough. But often RP's seem to be furious when a NRP doesn't agree that that kind of spending is totally necessary, and present this as them not contributing nearly enough to how much they "cost".

Original poster
goldensquaresofjoy · 10/08/2023 17:42

uneffingbelievable · 10/08/2023 17:27

So OP can snipe at a mother who lost her parents - making out she has it easy because she does not have mortgage and rent to pay but gets upset if someone thinks those comments are nasty.

Mum will get less that is life, but all the other bitchy comments bout her working school time only, having new DP - so she has not done it all on her own, being unreasonable for not letting theri DF be primary parent because it suited him more, then the ultimate drip feed-she of course had the affair. He now pays £1000pcm and the drop is only £100 pcm really

OP she is wrong with regard to you contributing but the rest your drip feed is so bad, who the hell knows. YOur comments re her parents - unacceptable

I have not sniped. I had not made out she has it easy. I only mentioned her parents as I was asked if it was the marital home.

And I haven't said he pays £1000pcm.

There's some real bad reading comprehension going on on this thread. Too much reading between the lines.

OP posts:
Spacecowboys · 10/08/2023 17:54

I don’t see how it is possible in all circumstances for a father to ensure that all his children have the same standard of living. The wife in the second marriage may well be the much higher earner ( increasingly common for women to earn more these days) and as a result pays for all family holidays, children’s clubs/ hobbies/ sports etc etc. The lifestyle for the children is being paid for by mum, not dad. In this situation, it wouldn’t be possible for dad to give the same standard of living to his children from the first marriage- he isn’t the one giving it to the children from his second marriage! I think mumsnet sometimes forgets that there are men who are lower earners and that the majority of people aren’t actually earning 100k plus. The op said they earn well but that doesn’t mean mumsnet well!

whitewinefriday · 10/08/2023 17:57

Spacecowboys · Today 17:54
I don’t see how it is possible in all circumstances for a father to ensure that all his children have the same standard of living. The wife in the second marriage may well be the much higher earner ( increasingly common for women to earn more these days) and as a result pays for all family holidays, children’s clubs/ hobbies/ sports etc etc. The lifestyle for the children is being paid for by mum, not dad. In this situation, it wouldn’t be possible for dad to give the same standard of living to his children from the first marriage- he isn’t the one giving it to the children from his second marriage!

Excellent point

RedRosette2023 · 10/08/2023 18:37

whitewinefriday · 10/08/2023 17:57

Spacecowboys · Today 17:54
I don’t see how it is possible in all circumstances for a father to ensure that all his children have the same standard of living. The wife in the second marriage may well be the much higher earner ( increasingly common for women to earn more these days) and as a result pays for all family holidays, children’s clubs/ hobbies/ sports etc etc. The lifestyle for the children is being paid for by mum, not dad. In this situation, it wouldn’t be possible for dad to give the same standard of living to his children from the first marriage- he isn’t the one giving it to the children from his second marriage!

Excellent point

Yes and I find it frustrating when women absolve themselves of financial responsibility towards their kids by virtue of passing it to their father.

In my household we have two working parents. In my DSS’ household there’s none. There’s no way we can completely level that and it’s obvious any maintenance is going to be spread across the “first” household and subsequent children there and not just go towards my DSS. I’m not suggesting that’s a reason not to pay but it’s a reason we can’t level off the disparity.

LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 18:49

When people say to give them the same standard of living, they mean the dad shouldn't spend everything he has on one set of kids over the other. Obviously the mums incomes are not necessarily going to be the same. You do also see some dads go full on Disney dad with the older kids snd leave everything for the younger kids to his wife to pay for, which is equally unfair.

LadyBird1973 · 10/08/2023 18:51

It must be very frustrating for the nrp to end up paying for his ex's 2nd set of kids.