Ffs Mumsnet stop deleting posts on the realities of step parenting

[Getyourarseofffthequattro]

Can we not manage to just remove the posts that break guidelines?

This is still somewhat of a taboo subject and I really believe that it is positive for us to know what the reality can actually be like. Yes, there may be some posters who don't like that and come to cause conflict, but can they not be dealt with instead of removing the whole thread?

It seems like there are a lot of double standards how posts on this board are dealt with. HQ do very little about the regular posters who come in and stick the boot in on every single thread, but then delete threads where it was clear the op needed a little bit of solidarity to get through.

We need to be able to have open conversations. It needs to be clear that this is a safe space to do so. It needs to be clear that uncomfortable conversations WILL happen on this board and perhaps people who might not like that may not want to read it. The conversation should not be shut down.

Agree @KylieKoKo. Just because people have gripes and difficulties with step-parenting at times doesn't make them one step away from being bloody child murderers FFS.

There doesn't also seem to be the same hostility towards step dads as step mums either.

Stepdads don't post here or on other forums as much as stepmums. Ots about 98% women posting.

Usually stepmums post with complaints, challenges or seeking advice and if stepdads did the same, no doubt they'd get similar responses.

Because they don't need to post the same type of challenges here as the expectations of them are largely totally different and far far less.

Not only is more expected of stepmums (and women in general, obviously) in terms of day to day care of children and the household, but also the sacred status of 'mother' means that there is also constant pressure regarding stepping on toes, what is an acceptable level of care/relationship from someone who is not mum etc etc.

So stepdads would hardly ever need to post the same or even similar complaints. The main complaints I've seen on here from stepdads have been about bad attitude in older/adult SCs, and even those are mainly general complaints about not working, being untidy, being rude etc rather than things that stepdads are actually having to deal with/provide/clean up every day.

@LittleMysSister

There doesn't also seem to be the same hostility towards step dads as step mums either.

Stepdads don't post here or on other forums as much as stepmums. Ots about 98% women posting.

Usually stepmums post with complaints, challenges or seeking advice and if stepdads did the same, no doubt they'd get similar responses.

Because they don't need to post the same type of challenges here as the expectations of them are largely totally different and far far less.

Not only is more expected of stepmums (and women in general, obviously) in terms of day to day care of children and the household, but also the sacred status of 'mother' means that there is also constant pressure regarding stepping on toes, what is an acceptable level of care/relationship from someone who is not mum etc etc.

So stepdads would hardly ever need to post the same or even similar complaints. The main complaints I've seen on here from stepdads have been about bad attitude in older/adult SCs, and even those are mainly general complaints about not working, being untidy, being rude etc rather than things that stepdads are actually having to deal with/provide/clean up every day.

Also vast majority of all posts on mumsnet are from women, not just the step parenting forum.

We have as a society treated women a bit like objects from the very beginning. I found this when becoming a "mum" but even more so as a SM.

The whole fashion "thin" look was to show frailty and weakness which was perceived as the "ideal women", be quite, be timid and serve. It's written into the marriage vows to obey 🤣 well I wrote that out of mine in any case. It's been around for years and insidiously is always there

@KylieKoKo I was on that very depressing thread that basically was saying that all SM are murders and hate their SC and couldn't women just keep their legs closed 😑one lovely comment about marriage and being religious being a protective factor against abuse🤮 and anything else other than die alone for women was essentially damaging to children. I really enjoyed the comments saying they all blame the DP,for issues in blended families since if it's not the SC and it's not the ex or DP then apparently it must be out existence that is to blame. I had to mute it. To much hate on there.

The problem is blended families wouldn't happen if the first families stayed together. I resent any implication that any trauma that came from that break up is something that I should allow to gag me from having any type of wishes and feelings. I am mindful of it obviously but I am not going to carry it around. That is for the DP to sort if that much of a issue.

Anyone notice also this thread has been left alone by the usual suspects (probably lurking and seething) at all comments here ?

I'm sure someone will come along soon... only matter of time. Sigh

@candlelightsatdawn

Anyone notice also this thread has been left alone by the usual suspects (probably lurking and seething) at all comments here ?

I'm sure someone will come along soon... only matter of time. Sigh

They are all too busy equating us to child murderers on the other thread I mentioned.

@KylieKoKo still going on ? I thought they might have swung back to shaming the single parents for a bit.

It's interesting that they have been saying oh if dear Arthur's mother was here he would be alive. The Dm is in prison for murder ... I doubt he would have had a better life with her tbh. He should have been kept well away from the all of them.

She wasn't even the child's SM gahhhh

The SDC are supposed to be treated like Demi gods coming down to earth for the day!

Absolutely! I learnt this to my cost when with EXDP, and it hits the nail on the head. SDC was treated like a visiting dignitary, and DC like Cinderella by him. When DS1 was 4, EXDP was quite happy for DS1 to be at the kitchen sink helping with the washing up, while DSS10 sat lounging on the side. THEY ARE BOTH HIS DC, yet EXDP saw nothing wrong with it. Madness.

research proves Stepdads have an easier time than Stepmums! and much more is expected of stepmums!

There's a new podcast out which talks about the reality of being a stepmum and episode 1 talks a lot about what you are talking about on this thread. I think you'll like it

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0b7gb4k

I've just listened to that & it's very good.
One of the reasons I still post on here - even though I am no longer a sm - is that (like the podcast host & interviewee say) there is NO support out there for sms & yes, due to cultural AND gender bias sms are just expected to row in, fix everyone's problems all the while keeping themselves bottom of the pile.
I actually sent that link to my exdp & told him that it might explain better than I could just how hard my 6 years with him were!

@Magda72 good I hope he bloody recognises what's in that podcast and changes accordingly.

It's nice to see actually those tough discussions being spoken about on a accessible forum.

@Starseeking this would drive my absolutely mad, my DH made the mistake of doing a similar thing in front of the kids a while ago, and my god did he regret it. I publicly called him out in front of the children in a non telly way way and boy did he do a u turn. Hasn't been stupid enough to do it again.

I really disliked not presenting a united position in front of the DC, so would rarely, if ever, mention it in front of them. The trouble was EXDP would say one thing when we had our private discussions about discipline etc, then do the complete opposite when DSS was standing in front of him!

I used to think someone had taken over EXDP's body when DSS came to stay, because EXDP turned into a complete dogsbody that I didn't recognise. It was quite unattractive as well, knowing how he usually behaved. I did have to put my foot down and say something when DSS turned 8 and he'd never poured himself even a bowl of cereal at our house because EXDP always did it for him.

Blinkered posters come on and derail genuine threads and cause such a merry song and dance that the whole thing has to be deleted - happens literally every day on Mumsnet. It's not just confined to Step Parenting.

So much of this is similar to my experience. I am currently trying to deal with how I’m going to process the last decade of my life. I think I’m actually traumatised by the actions of my husband and his children towards me and to a certain much less extent it’s still going on. This thread is a huge support.

@PinkLadyFriday you can thank Quattro for this thread. Usually there's a support thread of some kind that rolls around the board and usually it's left well alone. I'm not sure how ! And of course you do ! If your treated like a object constantly without any feelings it's going to mess with your head.

@A580Hojas that's true however I do think this board gets a lot more lurkers/ emotional hijackers (similar to AIBU actually ) there seems to be less trolls on relationship board. I think it's interesting and worth note most people won't put themselves as SM on here knowing the blasting they will get.

@Starseeking usually I'm right there with you but I was really annoyed with DH and SC smirking thinking it was funny DD was getting a lashing for something she had done 5mins before and DH said nothing. Both weren't smirking after I was done. Not my proudest moment.

There is DEFINITELY not the same hostility to stepdads as there is stepmums. Research shows it.

It could be because men/stepdads generally don't get themselves too involved with stepkids and women/stepmums do.

@Magda72

@SandyY2KI genuinely feel what 'upsets' sms about the 'prioritising' of sdc is that it is disproportionate to everything else going on in everyday life.

In all honesty, the man that does this isn't a good partner and I question how good they'd be without the kids. The kids are just an excuse for him not being a good partner and in reality, how good a dad are they anyway.

Apologies @candlelightsatdawn, I wasn't trying to come off as being self-righteous in saying that. I just have bad memories from when I was younger, particularly the anxiety in my stomach when my parents used to pull in different directions (they've been married for almost 45 years to date, really not sure how!).

Due to that experience I always said I'd not fight in front of DC, or contradict my DH in front of them, which unfortunately my EXDP took full advantage of.

@Starseeking you all good here don't worry or apologise. Usually I don't either due to being fairly conflict avoidant (a issue I'm working on) but that day I just lost it.

Probably why it hasn't happened since since my DH got a bit of a shock 😂

@SandyY2K I think it's more engrained in stereotypes than that tbh and it's more reflection of "the bar" - for man to be considered a good dad or step dad, they have to do bare min where as the bar has and always will be higher for women as most child rearing comes from females from a historical society perspective. It's well documented, proved and shown in various studies. Whether there is a word step in front of the word mum, that bar of expectation is higher in anything child related.

Men have the similar society bar but for providing provision for their family or families.

Although I'm quite happy to agree that some men are just jack asses tbh

It could be because men/stepdads generally don't get themselves too involved with stepkids and women/stepmums do
But @SandyY2K don’t you see that is the whole point? Men are seemingly allowed to not get involved, women are pressured to so are judged heavily if they don’t get involved.
Look at the regular comments on here if a SM says she doesn’t want to do XYZ or be too involved… they’re immediately bombarded with comments such as:
You resent those children
You knew what you were getting in to
You are a family now so do XYZ
You sound awful, leave for the sake of the children

Etc etc etc

Most of the time they’re just trying enforce healthy boundaries, protect their own mental health and resist being taken advantage of.

Stepdads do not have the same societal pressure or judgement.

Men have the similar society bar but for providing provision for their family or families
I actually disagree with this with regards to step or 2nd families. Men seem to be absolved of financial responsibility except for their first families.

How many threads on here have we seen where stepmum are expected to pick up the financial slack for her stepchildren if dad loses his job?
But when it is the man who has moved in with a new partner and her children he is supposed to direct his money solely towards his own children from the first family.

It’s double standards at every turn. Women must give give give… money, time, love, effort, their home etc to everyone involved but men aren’t expected to. As long as they don’t in anyway change anything towards their first family (even if financially things have changed) then he is considered a good dad / partner. Screw anyone else he chooses to bring into his life subsequently.

Remember that foul poster who actually said “If you came second in time then you should come second in line”.

@SandyY2K I honestly think a lot of these men who disproportionately prioritise their dc genuinely believe that doing so is being a good father.
The blame game is still very much weighted against men & no matter what the circumstances of the break up or no matter how much the dm may have wanted to be the rp, the man is still nearly always assumed to have wanted out & to have 'left' his family.
This notion is often projected onto him by his ex (even if she was actually the one who wanted out), his dc, his family, friends & society in general; so much so that many a decent man gets subsumed by projected guilt & in doing so completely fails to see that he doesn't actually need to 'make things up' to the dc but believes he does (because all the subliminal messaging he's receiving is that he's an awful father) & cannot then see that the 'making things up' to the dc is actually completely crap parenting. Throw an 'evil stepmum' into the mix & you often get a man who has everyone intimating that he has ruined his children's lives twice over - by 'leaving' & by then having the audacity to find a new partner.
I'm not advocating for these men, because at the end of the day there are therapeutic supports out there that many of them just refuse to engage with (often seeing the need for therapy as another indicator that they are useless), however I do see how easy it is for them to fall in with these behaviours.
Nearly every thread on here asks "were you the ow" & the ingrained mindset is that dad left/had an affair, ruined everyone's life & then either shacked up with ow (whose existence he obviously lied about) or found a woman asap after separation; either way the new partner is seen on here as being complicit in the ongoing ruining of everything, for everyone.
Exw/partner & dc often ramp up the blame game when a new partner appears & she then ends up being scapegoated by her partner who is so enmeshed in keeping the dc happy that he just cannot comprehend or deal with the fact his little darlings were often only so darling when he was being Fun Dad & giving them exactly what they wanted - all. the. time.
It's a constant source of bewilderment to me that despite the prevalence of separation & divorce Society has just not adapted to deal with it. Generally speaking Dads are always the bad guys, Mums are always abandoned saints, stepdads are invisible & step mums are the harbingers of all life's woes. The minute I became a sm the fact that I was a dm became largely irrelevant to people (in general). I went from 'poor abandoned woman' to someone getting in the way of the sdcs lives almost overnight & yes, I was dehumanised - everyone forgot what I & my dc had been through & my years of experience (both personal & professional) with kids, my kindness, my empathy & my very clear sighted and rational brain were totally overlooked. I was now a women so keen to not be alone that I'd wedge myself between a man & his dc! I was actually told by people I should have stayed single - not for my sake or the sake of my dc but for the sdc's sakes!!!!
These issues are very, very complex but the crux of the matter is Society still does not look on nr dads or sms favourably & in fact I would even say that, in general, people love to see a second relationship/marriage fail because for some reason, despite the prevalence of separation/divorce/blending/second families in the modern world, Society still considers the First Family as sacrosanct & the golden uterus of that family as the second coming!

Societal notions like these make it very difficult for men to parent robustly without facing a barrage of criticism & they also make it very difficult for a new partner to have any autonomy in her life or home.
As I said up-post I'm not defending these men but I think it's a lot more complex for many men than it just being genuinely lazy parenting & while they absolutely need to learn to help themselves, grown a pair & start seeing the reality of situations & behaviours; that can be very difficult & tiring to do when there exists an entire narrative that has cast you as The Bad Guy.

@SpongebobNoPants oh I totally agree there's a pecking order in terms of the mans responsibility .

What I was trying to get at (badly put) if DH loses his job, that weight to both houses lingers and sometimes the second wife is expected to make up for the first as we have seen here over and over.

It's all crackers tbh.

@SpongebobNoPants

It could be because men/stepdads generally don't get themselves too involved with stepkids and women/stepmums do But *@SandyY2K* don’t you see that is the whole point? Men are seemingly allowed to not get involved, women are pressured to so are judged heavily if they don’t get involved. Look at the regular comments on here if a SM says she doesn’t want to do XYZ or be too involved… they’re immediately bombarded with comments such as: You resent those children You knew what you were getting in to You are a family now so do XYZ You sound awful, leave for the sake of the children

Etc etc etc

Most of the time they’re just trying enforce healthy boundaries, protect their own mental health and resist being taken advantage of.

Stepdads do not have the same societal pressure or judgement.

Agree completely.

Men don't get as involved because they don't have to, and that's exactly what we're all saying! They don't get pressured by their partner to take on loads of parental duties because it's subconsciously seen a work for their sex to do. They don't get judged if they take a step back.

The expectations on men and women, and especially stepmums, are so far apart it's insane.

See the thread on here currently about a pregnant woman with an eating disorder who has spent hours batch-cooking for after the impending birth of her baby so she can maintain her balanced eating and not slip into restricting - but her partner is eating it all because he cba to cook. People are over there right now laying into because he happens to also have a son and is feeding it to him too.

People are literally bashing the OP for being annoyed, rather than admitting that her DP is being a lazy prick and not cooking for himself and his son at the expense of her time and effort. If that doesn't show the double-standard I don't know what does. A heavily pregnant women is being lambasted while an actual biological father gets off scot free, when he's the one completely in the wrong.

In my years as a SM, I have financially supported my stepkids, who have more money than me in trust for them than I'll ever have, I have looked after them full time, I have run home out of important meetings from work in rush hour to collect them from after school club, I have done their washing, cooked their food, helped with their homework, gone to parents evenings, fought for them to get appropriate SN diagnosis and medical treatment, read to them, bought them presents, talked them through crises, told them I love them. DH does all this too - we are an equal partnership.

I once made the mistake online of saying I was upset after one of them had made an off comment to me after a day when I had them solo, and was told 'well, I feel sorry for your stepchildren'. I've never forgotten that. The person saying it knew me and meant to hurt. I have poured so much in but fundamentally someone can always say that to me because I am not their mum. It doesn't sound particularly bad I know (certainly not in the league of some of the stuff on here) but it was devastating.

@TooSpotty it hurt because there's implied "your not doing enough and your presence is something to apologise for"

I for one am sorry some one was brainless enough to say this out loud, it wasn't fair or true. I am willing to bet this person wasn't a step mum though right ?

That little line is trotted out so much on this board it would be laughable if it wasn't for the fact that people forget there's a very real person on the end of the comments being received. The lack of empathy we show other human beings especially online is shocking.

@LittleMysSister oh I read that one and man it's grim. As someone who battled (and will live with) as fairly sever ED being pregnant is a really dangerous time.

We always talk about men keeping the inequality unbalanced , but mostly I find it's the women have a larger part to play than the men. The Handmaids tale although fictional, is reflective of society, it's women on women keeping in their allotted place in this weird hierarchy.