A message to those who post ‘you knew what you were getting into’

[sassbott]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4323771-Regret-having-children

Lovely brave thread here from parents, discussing whether anyone regrets having children. From what I’ve read so far, there is a real mixed bag of responses. But there generally seems to be some common consensus.

1. admitting publicly that you regret having children is unlikely to go down well and you have to be super careful where (and whom) you share those honest feelings
2. the pressure on women to have to want to ‘procreate’ continues.

So in much the same way SM’s are piled in on here for voicing those feelings - some parents in RL experience the same.
And the same pressure that we see Sm’s in particular facing regards how they should feel regards children is the same pressure women who have chosen to not have children feel.

So the next time someone says ‘you knew what you were getting into, why are you with someone who had children’ perhaps show them this thread.
Parents struggle too. It’s hard. So why should step parents be able to voice the exact same feelings?

The other thing re the Other People thing is to turn the questions the other direction and say:

WHO are these Other People?

HOW is their opinion worth more than mine?

WHY am I even being discussed with these nameless faceless Other People?

WHAT ELSE are you discussing about me with strangers?

As I said, Other people think/Other people are saying is a load of bollocks, it’s the person in front of you trying to brow beat you into doing “as you’re told”

After what I’ve been through at the hands of men who like to call the shots for their sense of power and control

I DON’T do what I’m told

@Magda72 I think what is happening here is very similar to what happened with you. As you say I have reconciled in good faith. So it has been a little disorientating when there are comments (which clearly show unhappiness) around his children and my role in their lives.

@candlelightsatdawn that’s a really good way of putting it. Expectations (along with judgement when not met) vs xyz is what I’m prepared to do, as you say, with boundaries.

@Jennifer2r I don’t know what it is tbh. I don’t know if it’s guilt or there is just an overriding frustration that his children’s needs are not being met. Because (as I alluded to on the other thread I posted on from page 18 onwards), his children (like that Op’s partners children) want to come to my house and hang out with my children. Like that OP my children will compromise for me - but equally it’s not what they want. So by placing my boundaries in you could argue that I am ensuring my kids needs are met. But by adhering to them, his children’s needs are not being met. And that is (I think) some of the underlying frustration that comes out from time to time.

I sometimes try and put myself in his shoes to see how I would feel, but tbh I end up in the same place. I wouldn’t expect anyone other than myself to be the person meeting my children’s needs. And if my children pressed, I would explain that contact time is for us and we are our own little complete family. I would work hard to make my children secure and fulfilled in their time with me.

Now if I continue to play devils advocate, I then ask myself this. ‘How would I feel if a partner of mine didn’t want to actively spend time with my children.’ Now again (in all honesty), it doesn’t even cross my mind as to how little/ how much my partner sees my children. It just doesn’t. More important to me (and them) is that they see and spend time with their dad.

If I then layer in the complexity of his ex and if that was my world. I would actually welcome a space that was being offered up, conflict free, peaceful, and separate from the dysfunction of my ex and children. I guess I would simply accept the need to boundary my ex and children and be grateful that I had a partner who gave me the time and space to spend time with my children. Without any pressures on us as a ‘couple’.

I recognise he and I are very different people. And my thinking is clearly not his.

@oohthatrisottowasnice yes I have protected myself, and my children and tbh his children. They would not have coped well with a blended set up, their mother would have increased her attempts at alienation and the person who would have borne the brunt of that is the children and then me, when time and again the emotional issues surfaced in my home.

These issues are not of my making and I am not prepared to take them on. The bigger question is whether my partner is prepared to fully accept it and be ok with it. 🤷🏽‍♀️

He fundamentally needs to make a choice. If his need for a family is strong, then we are over and he needs to find himself someone who can meet those needs.

Equally I need to make a choice after our convo. About how much more of these ‘comments’ I am prepared to listen to. Because he cannot keep doing this. Accept what I say and then from time to time tell me my stance is ‘not normal’.

I mean it doesn’t bother me if it’s not normal. Wtaf is normal? I just want a peaceful life. I want to enjoy my home with my children while they’re still with me. I want to enjoy my home when they’re not with me! I love my peace and quiet and downtime.

I often joke (but it isn’t a joke) that the silver lining of divorce is that 40% of the time, I get a break from my kids. I actually genuinely think that time apart allows me to reset and makes me a more engaged / more patient mum when my kids are with me. If that downtime was spent with his children? My kids would return to a stressed mum, that’s no good for them, or me.

I’ll have the conversation. From a good and constructive place. I’m curious as to what underpins this and whether it can be resolved, without my compromising on my core boundaries.

Hmm. The difference is when you have kids of your own, you can't walk away. You can as a SM. So even if you didn't know how difficult it would be, you can walk away from it a lot easier, if the issues in the relationship are the children.

Most of the people who talk of regret having kids on threads I've read...is where the kids are really challenging in their behaviour, where finances/low wages make parenting stressful, where you have kids who are in trouble a lot and just don't have any respect. ...as well as more kids than they can cope with...Coupled with a poor choice of father for them, which often leaves them doing all the parenting. So you feel a loss of freedom.

So often in life, the issues that present as relationship difficulties, are evident before kids come along...People just ignore and hope they'll improve. That applies to parents and stepparents.

If someone isn't a good partner, they're unlikely to be a good parent when the kids come along. If you BF has kids and you see the relationship with his Ex is awful and his kids aren't parented well...then why would that change.

Now...there are situations where people do change...but that doesn't happen in all cases. Going from Jeckyll to Hyde...just isn't a regular thing...the red flags where there.

I think there is a lot of naivety about the challenges of being a stepparent. Stepmums especially, sometimes think it will all be fun....especially younger Stepmums,

I very much doubt that they realise things like:

How custody schedules will dictate aspects of your life

How the Ex wife's relationship with in-laws can be an issue

How you can feel insecure and jealous

That stepkids could decide to spend more or less time with you than they currently do

How you may become irritated once you have your own kids

When I decided never to marry a man with kids... I was 19/20 years old. The main reasons were that I didn't want my husband's income to be going to support a previous kid, I didn't want him forever having to communicate with an Ex and I wanted to experience all our firsts together.

I would never have thought of the other issues that are issues for SMs. There was no Internet back then, but now I feel that people have the resources to really research before taking the plunge into the challenges.

If a woman is in her late 30s upwards, realistically, there are limited options and you may just have to settle for a guy with kids.

It's worth remembering that there are many successful step families. When you have sensible adults, it makes all the difference.

@IWasBornInAThunderstorm

I think you're right here:

If ultimately my patners wish is for ‘family’ (where a woman is hands on with his children), then that partner is not me and we remain at a core level incompatible.

You're going to have to go over it again with him. It is normal for you to not want to take on a "mum-type" role with your stepchildren. He needs to respect your feelings not dismiss them.

I agree.

Your partner thinks a woman's job is to look after the kids.

Read as He's trying to palm his kids off onto you.

@sassbott I hope the conversation goes well or at least I hope he doesn't just make noises in the right direction and go back on it.

Keep us updated - I'm quite interested into what he will say.

Whatever the outcome I hope your ok 💕

sassbott

Reading some of what you've said, I feel that your DP is a bit jealous that your kids are older and more independent than his.

Those who become stepparents really don't know what they're getting into at the outset, as the dynamics of each family can be so different.

Developing a relationship with an NRP usually takes place away from the DC initially. I went a whole year in the relationship my EXDP before I met his DS, and we were gradually introduced. By then I was invested in the relationship, and we were getting ready to move in together. His EXDW had been no trouble up to that point, but when the relationship moved up a gear and we moved in together, she stopped him seeing his DS, as she didn't know me.

To this day, 8 years later, I've split with my DP and I've still never met the EXDW or even spoken to her.

Another thing which causes major issues is the expectations of the NRP on his new partner. I say he intentionally, as 9 times out of 10, it is.

A lot of these NRP's are looking for someone to take on the role of DM while in their care, in the way that DM means the DP get to sit back while she does all the work. I experienced this with my EXDP.

Expectations of what you will and won't do, and a disbelief around that can be so challenging to work through, as some on this post have found.

An example from my experience; my EXDSS wet the bed until he was about 9 almost every time he stayed with us. Initially it was me changing the sheets, washing them, hanging them out and folding them. I read around this issue a bit, and realised there were things we could do to help DSS e.g. not giving him big drinks just before bedtime, and taking him to the loo in the middle of the night, and early morning. My EXDP ignored my suggestions, so he would give his DS huge drinks just before bedtime if he asked "because he didn't want to deprive him". He also refused to take his DS to the loo during the night and in the morning, as "his (EXDP's) sleep would be disturbed".

Me doing the sheets rigmarole carried on until I finally snapped and said he had to do it, as EXDP wasn't taking any steps to try and help the situation. EXDP turned me stopping sorting out the sheets into a "you hate my DS" conversation, instead of considering that I'd actually just got fed up of doing something he should have been doing, or at least helping with, as I'd expect with my own DC.

Over time, I also realised that EXDP didn't like me going out with friends when his DS came because he didn't want to spend time on his own with his own DS. He was happy to spend a few minutes chatting, but just wanted to get back to doing his own thing, while I entertained him. Again when I pulled back from this, it turned into a "you hate my DS" conversation.

These types of conversations on so many different subjects would come up every single time my EXDP's SS would stay (EOW), and it's wearing. All because an NRP's expectations are that the new partner should pick up where RP left off. I could never have foreseen that coming, it's unrealistic to have done.

I will caveat some of that to say my EXDP was carrying a lot of emotional trauma from his childhood with various stepmothers and projecting that onto his DS and my relationship m, whereas the reality was that we actually got on quite well.

From what you are describing @sassbott it sounds like your DP is telling you what you want to hear at the time friction arises, but deep down he still has those same expectations. I'm sure you already know that you need to have a very frank conversation to make an informed decision on the future of your relationship. I hope it goes well.

@candlelightsatdawn I’m fine, thank you for asking. I can’t bury my head in the sand and ignore this. I need to understand what drives these undercurrents and (as a poster asked) really listen to make sure I’m listening to what he’s saying. Is he hoping for more (eventually)?

@SandyY2K that hadn’t even crossed my mind! I need to think on that one a little longer and mull.
I guess my initial gut response is to say be careful what you wish for. All his contact happens to the letter as a result of a very strictly worded court order. A court order that could potentially be torn up once his children are my children’s ages.

If my eldest didn’t want to stay at their dads (or I didn’t want them too), no court in the land could ‘force’ me into doing so. I think the ‘child’s wishes’ being invoked will happen based on previous form from his exwife. I think underpinning all of this is an unspoken fear that one day, he may lose his kids. To me that makes more sense as it sort of touches on the fact that he wants his children to have such a great time during contact that the prospect of saying ‘no I don’t want to go’ is minimised. So if his children want to come to mine and spend time with me and my children, they are additional bonds that could help mitigate something that may happen one day.

I can understand that thinking and it’s something I have thought for some time. As I’ve said before, I think there are some very complex dynamics underpinning all of this and it’s why I do have a huge amount of empathy for him.

For those of us who co parent amicably with zero conflict with the parent of our child, we know how easy that makes our lives. Not having to fight/ be in conflict with my exh frees my time and energy up to focus on my career, hobbies, fitness. I have no issue disciplining my children (and I can come down occasionally like a ton of bricks if the eldest especially is very rude). I can discipline and raise emotionally stable children because I know if they call their dad and say mum said xyz, his first response would be ‘what did you do? And did you deserve it.’ And vice versa. He would not accuse me of being abusive to the children and frightening them. He wouldn’t say the children came back from contact upset and crying as a result of spending time with me. Anymore than I would him. Because we both support each other and allow zero conquering and dividing/ playing off between households. My partner categorically does not have that with his ex.

It’s also a huge part of the reason that I have put the firm boundaries in that I have. I out further upthread the example about teens being over in the summer. If his children went back saying they had heard ‘xyz’ or that my eldest had been rude to them, or they had been physically hurt / caught up in some of the older children’s rough and tumble, it is not a great situation for my children or myself. Because of who his exwife is I have to protect my home, my children and myself.

And that’s the really sad part about all of this to be honest. These boundaries are in place because of simply how high conflict and vindictive the ex is. I’m sure some could say that she shouldn’t have that level of control over my life/ her exes life. But she does, because I simply am not prepared to allow any level of that dysfunction around my children. And the recurrence of this topic? In some ways I simply think it is frustration that I am allowing this woman to dictate how my partner and I interact/ live/ blend. He knows full well that had it not been for the actions of his exwife, that we would be in a very different place.

Now the reality is I cannot undo what has been done. I will not move on my boundaries. If he wants more than what I am prepared to give then he has to find someone else who is prepared to blend.

Sorry to drop feed. Like I said, it’s not a straight forward situation. He’s a great dad, he’s not wanting me to do the grunt work. At all. He wants there to be a bond because his children ask for me. One day that bond would probably help him.

The existing CO is in place after a very complex and stressful family proceedings. My partner has the full support of the children’s schools/ GP. All of whom see happy, well looked after, thriving children following contact. If I get more involved, when the next set of proceedings start (which is inevitable, the question is when), if I am hands on/ involved, I would be pulled into that. And I don’t want to be.

His conflict has taken up so much of my energy already. It is not my fight or my conflict. I didn’t marry this women, or procreate with her. He did. I am prepared to be his partner, give him the time and space and full support to do whatever it is he needs to do regards his children. I will listen, give advice. But I refuse to get any further involved in him and his exes situation. And therefore the children which are at the Center of all of this.

I have a peaceful, happy home. Super amicable with my exh. He is welcome to be part of that. But I won’t allow any of us / me to be pulled back into his shit show. The breakup was instrumental in solidifying that for me. I’m sorry if that makes me sound cold or detached. I love him and his kids. He needs to use these next years to build super secure bonds and create memories. That’s what he and his children need. The rest? Only time will tell.

@sassbott how frustrating. Your approach seems healthy and balanced and considerate but your partner seems stuck with his nuclear family fantasies.
I’ve got it much easier - my partner does understand I don’t want to live in his pocket. But even so, there’s a vortex that tries to suck me in!! So I keep having to reset and remind myself not to feel guilty for wanting to live my own life rather than be the staff of an 8 year old (that’s another thread!!)

The "you knew what you were getting into" comments are all about misogyny. Women get into parenting arrangements with grown men, assuming that they're on equal footing. Then it turns out that the man expects to dump the parenting drudge work on the woman and society enables this. Personally I know very few men who sincerely take on their fair share of family drudge work.

@Nowthisisme I do think there is a lot of truth to the wider societal bias/ view on women’s roles around ‘mothering/ parenting/ maternal roles.’ A bias / pressure that simply does not apply to men.

My children play sports. Not once has he been expected to ‘show an interest’ in their practise/ matches. Or assemblies at end of term. Or be ‘hands on’ in anyway whatsoever. Not once do I recollect anyone in my circle even raising the conversation of ‘how much time he spends with my children.’ I cannot even recollect the last time he spent 121 ‘bonding’ time with them. I’m not saying that in a horrible way but it’s simply not an expectation anyone (including myself) has towards him. They have no need to bond with him, I have no need for them to bond with him.

The multitude of threads on here saying ‘well why are you involved with children if you’re not prepared to do xyz’ astound me. Why should someone who is not my children’s parent be ‘expected’ to do anything. Other than be kind, respectful, consistent and fair.

@sassbott do you think you could trust him to respect your boundaries until his dc are adults. Have you also thought about what happens his dc are adults and what type of relationship they will have with him? Is it just their ages and the ex conflict that will get better with age or do you think they will be troubled teenagers and young adults? I haven't got experience with adult step dc but in Stepmonster it's spoken about and it isn't the happy ending lots of step mothers are hoping for.

@Starrynight468 to be honest, I don’t dwell on it too much. There is no crystal ball that will predict how his children will turn out anymore than there is one on how my children will turn out. We all hope for the best as parents really I think.

Overall, do I think a happy ending awaits? Tbh no, I don’t. The ex has been at this behaviour for so long, it’s clear this behaviour is established and therefore won’t lessen with time. She is exceptionally high conflict (and sadly that conflict is not restricted to my partner), so as I said, these behaviours are embedded in her.

I think his children will always be made to choose. How much time they spend with him (when they’re old enough), through to how much they contact him (again when they’re old enough to have their own devices). I predict issues at events like graduation, weddings, future christenings if they have children of their own - I mean any event that would be a ‘family’ celebration. She will make those events about ‘her’ and ‘her family’.

Now a lot depends on the resilience / personality of his children. They may be resistant to whatever is happening in their home and continue a relationship with him. But in terms of the ex ever becoming more accepting of his role in their lives? No, that will never happen. And I think that’s really sad for everyone involved.

To give an example, My youngest had a school leaving event at the end of last term. My exh and I were the only divorced couple to attend and sit together for the speeches/ food part. It was like 45 mins- 1 hour max. We can be civil and put aside the ‘us as a couple failing’ to support key, one off events in our childs life. We understand that to be able to show unity at important things like this, it matters to our kids.

There were 3 other divorced mums in attendance. None of the dads had attended. Why? Because it wasn’t their contact time and the mothers refused to allow it (they volunteered this information to me whilst laughing). Now I’m sure technically as it was a ‘school’ event, those dads could have secured an invite and attended. They evidently chose to stay away - for whatever reason. Perhaps they couldn’t be bothered, perhaps they just didn’t want to put their child in that situation. I don’t know. All I know is that I felt sad for the children involved as when I got home my youngest hugged me and said ‘it was nice you and daddy both came.’ I hadn’t said a word. I asked said child why they’d said that and he replied that none of the other children (whose parents were divorced) had their dads there. He noticed, those children would have noticed too.

So, do I think it will get better? Who knows. All I know is that whilst their mother is in the background, fundamentally unsupportive of her ex (let’s not even bring me into the equation), it will continue to be hard.
But, it’s why I’ve stepped away for focus on my own life. This core dysfunction is not mine to solve. My responsibility lies to the well-being of my own family - my children. Because that is the area I do have responsibility over.

What will they be like as teens? I predict issues.
We all know teen years are beyond tricky. My ex and I trust one another as parents and communicate well about the children. So we categorically do not allow for any splitting behaviours/ playing off against one another. That is critical in managing the emotional / behavioural growth of a teen in my view. I’m not saying we won’t have issues, I’m sure we will. But the same rules will carry across both homes, so we will continue to jointly tackle things.

What happens with teens where that isn’t the case? Depending on their make up, I’m sure it can result in very odd dynamics whereby the children ‘control’ the NRP via their demands. How much of that would be the children/ the exwife causing mayhem in the background would be unknown. All I know is that rubbish is not coming anywhere near my home or my kids.

It’s a car crash waiting to happen tbh. Unless she settles or the children start to ignore her (which is a real possibility), the future years will not be a walk in the park for him.

Is a relationship where you are not ever going to be able to share a home together, even when all dc are grown up, what you really want @sassbott?

I applaud your boundaries, I wish I had kept homes and dc seperate from my relationship, but (if we make it through these years) I'm looking forward to travelling with dh, having all the dc round for Sunday dinner, and sharing evenings and a bed with dh every night. Are you happy with maintaining a seperate home from dp either forever or until you're very old? It seems like you won't be able to keep his drama away unless you do as the future with him and his dc looks depressing. Can you drill down how you feel about whether this for the rest of your life is something you want before you have the bottom out conversation with dp. If you're more than happy to keep a seperate home until old age then it will be lovely on your side, but if you want a partner to share your years once dc have flown the nest then this partner might sadly not be the one for you.

I'm not a stepmum but I'm divorced and have been with my partner (who has no kids) for 5 years since my son was 13. I made the decision not to live with my partner until my son is more independent. My son isn't particularly close to his dad who now has a 10yo stepson and a 3yo son (at 57!) and I've loved having the kind of environment sassbot describes to have raised my son in through his teenage years. My partner spends a lot of time here and the 3 of us holiday and socialise together but I made sure this was first and foremost the home of my son and me for those years.

Living with my partner will mean me moving in with him and renting my house out for practical/logistical reasons. My son is about to start an apprenticeship and has his own car so a move 10miles away may be in the cards in the next 18/24m, but I'd rather wait a little longer till my son is approaching 20, by which time I think he'll be hugely independent and wanting to live in his own place.

My partner too has always been happy with this approach

@sassbott I don't know if this helps re the point on if elder children if they ever realise what's going on as adults . This is only my perspective although it may not seem like a happy ending, it was as close to positive as I think it can get.

But I grew up in a step family and the mum in question (not my mum) was high conflict. Sounds a lot like the ex your dealing with, as a result my step siblings were hideous to me (created as part of dreaded second family so hostility started probably before I was even born) out of the three, my youngest step/half sister was the one most conflicted (as the youngest in her set, I assume she was expected to fall into hate daddy and the new baby tow).She was pretty hideous to be around growing up I won't lie, on her own without the others she did sometimes soften, but with them it was mob rules.

When she became older/adult she was not only able to see what was happening re drop feed poison by the mum but became independent enough to have opinions that weren't in line with the others. She got fried for it and still does a lot of protecting me from the fall out from the other siblings when the mother starts up again (it never ends). It really is dependent on nature and the will of that child/adult. I do think it helped that firm boundaries from both parents meant she had another way of looking at things, because the consistency was at odds of what she got with her mum .As a child it didn't make sense but as a adult she got it. Thankfully. This to me is a good outcome. One out of three isn't bad considering

I fully respect your decision not to blend, please keep those boundaries in place. I'm not sure if the partial blending worked on our case or if they hadn't maybe I would class myself as having 3 siblings but if they had blended anymore im not sure if I would have survived. Truthfully.

OP, I couldn't agree more and I'm glad someone has voiced this.

@Starrynight468 honestly? Where I have gotten to in my life (right now) is I have no need to co-habit full time/ or even remarry.

Post divorce I have stabilised myself financially. I also have trust issues post divorce. To this day I can remember sitting with lawyers, my head in my hands. I could not begin to fathom how it would all work. How would I provide for my kids (I mean I worked but still, the shock of going from us to me was huge). The absolute trauma I then went through, is something I will never forget and I never want to be there again. It was horrific. There is no man alive for whom (right now), I will compromise my financial independence or my nest egg that I am trying to rebuild.

Sadly, currently, still, in England, there is no bullet proof way to cohabit/ remarry and protect assets accumulated pre the marriage etc. Pre nups are not bullet proof and the longer the marriage, the more the chance they can be invalidated. Same with co-habitation agreements, although bizarrely they hold slightly more legal sway if adhered to.

Maybe I need counselling to address those ‘trust’ issues but I’m not entirely sure what it is any counsellor could say to me that would make me think there is anything askew in my wanting to protect my financial security. But I think your point is very valid and I do need to give this some real thought longer term.

@candlelightsatdawn thank you for sharing your story. Oh I will keep my boundaries in place. Don’t worry. Not just for my children, but for his. Years ago, before I was cognizant that any mother would do this to their children, the children almost overnight started to display very odd behaviours. They would outright ignore me/ my children. It’s subsequently come out that the mother would say to the children things along the lines of ‘daddy likes sassbotts children, that’s why he lives with them.’ Even though he never did live with us, but they didn’t know that. If every contact time they saw all of us, that became their reality.

Even to this day, I cannot put into words how damaged that woman actually is. The only thing I could do was to take a huge step back and let these children have uninterrupted time with their dad and a ‘their’ home. Their space with him where their things lie untouched until they come back the next time. That has been without doubt the biggest way to counter her poison and allow them to feel safe and secure with their dad.

It’s a mess. Even now I sit here and wonder what I’m doing. But the thing is, he’s a good person. A really good dad. He’s not perfect, nor am I. But Christ his ex is a very damaged individual. I too hope his children have the resilience to see through her. Only time will tell.

@sassbott has your dp ever gone to counselling/therapy alone to 'deal' with this stuff?
A few things strike me & I'll try to write coherently about them.
First is: as I often say on here I believe a lot of parenting is a constant renegotiation of your relationship with your dc & as they move into adulthood if you want the relationship to be successful you have to less & less stay their parent if that makes any sense. Over the last 2/3 years I have parented my now 24 year old less & less & now hardly at all. I've had to work at seeing him as an autonomous adult & he's had to work at seeing me as someone other than mum.
We have a very close relationship but next year he is planning to move continents with his gf & I know there will be a period of time where I won't see him frequently & I will become the background to his life.
My point? When dc are younger we assume we'll always have the parent child relationship with them but it doesn't work like that. No matter how good a relationship with dc they grow up, get partners, often move away etc. & in truth that's all good and as it should be.
I totally get where you're coming from when you say your dp is worried about the CO down the road & that he is trying to cement bonds to maintain contact, but it strikes me that he's not really looking at what he himself as a person needs in life. He's orienting everything around ensuring he gets to see his dc but is loosing himself in the process. No matter how things pan out with his dc they will grow up & will either move on independently or will become those awful dependent adults who expect mum & dad to do everything for them & he will be left having given over a huge portion of his life trying to pin down dc who (in the natural order of things) will move on anyway.
This sounds very harsh of me but I don't mean it to be - however I think he needs to prepare himself for the fact that his dc may not want to see as much of him through teenage years. This could happen for a number of reasons; parental alienation, focus on peers, boredom at hanging out with dad etc. - & bonds with you & your dc will do nothing to change the potentiality of that happening. A 16 year old is not going to say I want to spend loads of time with dad because sassbot and her dc are so cool!
There's only my 15 yo dd at home at the moment & I have said to her that if she wants to spend more time at her dad's (more busy traditional family set up) at any point to let us know. This was hard for me to do but I want her to be happy & worry that she might be a bit bored here alone with with me, & I also am wary of us turning into The Gilmores!
So far she's happy here with me but that might change & I'll have to deal with it if it does.
Same goes for your dp. Even if parental alienation is at play his teenage dc (having had a CO for their early years) won't choose not to see him less unless they are genuinely happy at mums & are happy with their peers. They won't choose to stay where they are unhappy so if he gets "can't see you this weekend dad as we're busy" he will have to accept that while he is in conflict with his ex the dc may be perfectly happy there & view mums as home. He needs to realise that moving forward their relationship with their dm is not his relationship with her; that he may be in conflict with her but they may not.
I would also argue that they are actually more likely to keep seeing him without you as for teens (ime) one day of one on one nrp contact is worth a week of non one on one.
I also often felt that my exdp thought If he could create a fun, family environment with me his dc would come over to 'our side' so to speak but at the end of the day that didn't work as his dc were happy being with their dm.
She weaponised them against me but not against exdp & his contact with them has never suffered.
He has other issues with them but that's down to Disney Parenting by both him & his exw.
I just feel that if your dp could unpick all this stuff & really look at it clearly he would be in a much healthier & realistic head space. He has a high conflict ex & that is unlikely to change no matter how much he wants it to & (like the 12 steps program) accepting that & working with that reality- which may also be accepting the reality that he is never going to get the family life he wanted is the only way forward.
Sorry all this sounds very preachy & rambling but my brain isn't firing on all cylinders this morning.

[quote Starrynight468]@sassbott do you think you could trust him to respect your boundaries until his dc are adults. Have you also thought about what happens his dc are adults and what type of relationship they will have with him? Is it just their ages and the ex conflict that will get better with age or do you think they will be troubled teenagers and young adults? I haven't got experience with adult step dc but in Stepmonster it's spoken about and it isn't the happy ending lots of step mothers are hoping for.[/quote]
Well, I certainly didn't know what I was letting myself in for! As a stepchild, I thought I was prepared. Na na na.

I took on a widower and his over 18s. Some still living at home, some long gone. The older ones act like a hostile ex wife and tried to use access to the grandchildren to dictate how my home should run. They created this vast fantasy in their heads about how we were, our intentions for their siblings and our financial resources and arrangements. In their eyes, they are the centre of the family, and all our time and resources should be poured into their laps. They exert pressure on their siblings to join them in their chosen location and to rotate like planets around their sun.

Anyway, points to look out for:

1. Move into their Dad's home, and you will be under enormous pressure to live by the ex's (or late wife's) rules.
2. If they move into your home, 1) still applies but you have a bit more clout.
3. If they move into your home, be prepared for them to expect Dad's home to immediately be sold and the proceeds go to them. He can live off you now!
4. Access battles move down a generation.

I don’t know why he’s still pushing so much @sassbott if that’s what his ex has put you all through, or is his memory selective?

His kids are being manipulated by their mother and the best way to counter that is to NOT blend Everything and maintain a home that’s just theirs.

Is he in some small way trying to put his needs/wants above the health of his kids, the health of you and your kids too?

I think a large problem is that so many people (parents and step parents alike) DON’T know what they’re getting into. Lots of people don’t spend any significant amount of time around kids until they have their own!
I understand what you mean but it seems that people dont actually think implications of who they are dating.
35 years ago I knew nothing about children but when I was young and on the dating scene it was obvious to me not to date a bloke with kids for all sorts of reasons. I dont think different parenting styles crossed my mind though.
I knew if I dated someone and it became serious there would be issues over housing, over money and time together.
I knew what I would be getting myself into. And I didnt want that life no matter how wonderful the bloke was.
No regrets for not being a step mum and I'm glad I stuck to my rule. Some of my friends wished that they had done the same!