A message to those who post ‘you knew what you were getting into’

[sassbott]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4323771-Regret-having-children

Lovely brave thread here from parents, discussing whether anyone regrets having children. From what I’ve read so far, there is a real mixed bag of responses. But there generally seems to be some common consensus.

1. admitting publicly that you regret having children is unlikely to go down well and you have to be super careful where (and whom) you share those honest feelings
2. the pressure on women to have to want to ‘procreate’ continues.

So in much the same way SM’s are piled in on here for voicing those feelings - some parents in RL experience the same.
And the same pressure that we see Sm’s in particular facing regards how they should feel regards children is the same pressure women who have chosen to not have children feel.

So the next time someone says ‘you knew what you were getting into, why are you with someone who had children’ perhaps show them this thread.
Parents struggle too. It’s hard. So why should step parents be able to voice the exact same feelings?

@sassbott I agree with PP when they said he's heard you but I'm not sure potentially heard all of what your saying(wilfully or not is to be decided). Through I want to be really clear no fault of your own if he hasn't .

I think he knows this. Does he know that is isn't something your gonna budge on ? Truly in his bones does he know you will walk ? Or does he see any sign or glimmer of "maybe just maybe ?" Is he willing to test this theory push comes to shove ? Guilt her, test her patience to see if she gives ground ect

In theory I would like to do a skydive, somehow though I have never booked it. Probably because i have in my age developed a tiny fear of heights which I refuse to acknowledge it loud, so magically it keeps being put off. I know this because I know me. Is he willing to share that part of him or does he know actually his true intentions would make you run away screaming. What's your gut telling you ?

Has he heard you or is he being will fully ignorant or just rose tinted glasses on the hope of having his cake and eating it.

Problem is when your bias benefits you, most people won't change. What is cultural lot acceptable may feed your behaviour but it doesn't dictate it. Just because when slavery was around, doesn't mean that everyone thought it was ok, but society would have stamped out those people and ridiculed them, their voices downed out my the masses. I struggle to comprehend every single person was ok with it and did nothing to change it. However that would have taken massive amounts strength, will of the masses vs will of the few.

Is your partner mentally strong enough to defy "convention" in all aspects of child rearing, not just some ?

Sorry probably not helpful I had more questions than anything.

@MissyB1 I had similar issues in my relationship.
We would discuss things. Things/compromise would be agreed to. I would be assured we were on the same page. Then, a few weeks/months later the same or similar issue(s) would rear it's head & exdp would revert to old behaviours. Another round of discussions would ensue & I would say it's ok not to agree on this but I would again be assured we were on the same page. Then a few weeks/months later it would all kick off again!
I'm not saying I was perfect, but I had my house in order so to speak. I was being upfront & honest about everything but all exdp was doing was agreeing with me without addressing his own 'house'. He just wanted a quite life, wanted me to do all the emotional work & thought he could get away with just agreeing with me in the moment.

@Optimist1

But it's different with step children, inasmuch as you can "try before you buy" - spend time with them, observe their relationship with their father and so on. I appreciate it would be very hard to discontinue your relationship if you weren't comfortable with the stepchildren, but you do have a choice to proceed or not.

Do you have children? Were your parenting challenges at 6 months the same as at 3 years, 8 years, teenager, young adult?!! I’m struggling a little with my DSD at eight years whereas I breezed 1-7 years. I guess I didn’t know what I was getting into.

Posted too soon.
My point?
Certain people are great at agreeing to everything just to end the discussion/the row or to get their relationship back. The other person often takes this agreement in good faith & then ends up bewildered & frustrated when what had been agreed on starts rearing it's ugly head again.
I can't speak for @sassbott but it sounds like that's what's happening here.

@Magda72 spot on. I see this frequently in just general other relationships too outside of SP board.

I have never know for the life of me though how you would tackle that ? Would drive you to insanity.

Young children (his) are boring and hard work. There are stories to be read repeatedly, pom bears to hoover out of the carpet, loads and loads of washing to do, bed and bath times every night.

He wants you to do more of this stuff. No one has commented that you aren't doing enough of it, this is coming from him. What's the point of having a woman if she's not going to do those things?

This is quite obvious, really.

Do you have children? Were your parenting challenges at 6 months the same as at 3 years, 8 years, teenager, young adult?! !I’m struggling a little with my DSD at eight years whereas I breezed 1-7 years. I guess I didn’t know what I was getting into

I'm not sure this scenario is what this thread is aimed at. I wouldn't expect as a step parent to experience none of the challenges that growing children bring. What I'd want to avoid are the additional and unique challenges that a blended family/step relationship brings

Such an interesting thread. @Magda72 you make some good points. My eyes have been opened.

OP stick to your guns as they say. He’s trying to wear you down isn’t he!

[quote Magda72]@MissyB1 I had similar issues in my relationship.
We would discuss things. Things/compromise would be agreed to. I would be assured we were on the same page. Then, a few weeks/months later the same or similar issue(s) would rear it's head & exdp would revert to old behaviours. Another round of discussions would ensue & I would say it's ok not to agree on this but I would again be assured we were on the same page. Then a few weeks/months later it would all kick off again!
I'm not saying I was perfect, but I had my house in order so to speak. I was being upfront & honest about everything but all exdp was doing was agreeing with me without addressing his own 'house'. He just wanted a quite life, wanted me to do all the emotional work & thought he could get away with just agreeing with me in the moment.[/quote]
This is what my ex did to the point I used to text him my understanding what we had agreed so I could refer him back when he said no we didn’t.

@MissyB1 I can hand on heart say I listened to him. I have a great deal of empathy for his situation and also a great deal of respect for his wants and needs (if they are for a full on family). I told him that if he wanted a partner to be that person, that partner was categorically never going to be me. That he had absolutely every right to want a 24/7 family and if that’s what he wanted, he needed to find a partner who would fulfil that. He told me that he didn’t want someone around him and his kids 24/7 either and it worked for him.

@oohthatrisottowasnice sorry I haven’t clarified some points and great question. No I do not live with my partner and never have and never intend to. His exwife is exceptionally high conflict, his children were weaponised against me and as a result I have put in clear boundaries about how much his dysfunction is able to impact my home, my family and me. When we reconciled (and these were conversations we had pre break up), I made it clear that until such time that the children are older, in my view it is in everyone’s best interests to maintain separate homes. Allow the respective children to enjoy their time with their parents and not complicate matters.

As @Magda72 has mentioned, like her partner agreed with everything. He can see that his children thrive as a result of 121 time with him and not feeling the need to compete with both myself and my children. They get focussed time and attention with their dad, which they really need given how consistently their mother seeks to undermine that relationship. He told me he could see the benefits of that.

From a logistics perspective we equally could not live together without uprooting me. His children cannot commute to school from mine of he wishes to go for more contact. My children walk to school from my home, their dad is a 5 minute drive away, so under no circumstances am I moving. Logistically he will always need to maintain a home near their school which is not close to my home. This is especially important as he maintains a relationship with their schools/ their school friends/ parties / play dates etc.

Finally @BunnyBerries thank you for clarifying. He has his children EOW and midweek twice a month. You do the math. If I was in his shoes and saw my children so little, I wouldn’t care less who else spent time with them. I would focus on my time and my bond and make the most of that time. And that is the other thing that I want to bottom out. What exactly is driving this resurrection?

If you were to ask me my gut response. I think he’s conflicted. The relationship with me meets a large part of his core needs. Also as a result of zero conflict with my exh, my home is calm and peaceful. He and my exh can chat sports/ make small talk at handovers and everyone is happy.
So he has a life with me.

Then he has a life with his children. Which he says is also very fulfilling. Not a negative word spoke about his children.

Then there is the exwife who has set up home with her bloke a few years back and they move in a pack to everything. School events, handovers, you name it this guy is there. Playing family with his exwife and kids. So I honestly believe there is an underlying element of ‘she’s doing this with her fella, why wont you?’

Honestly though I think he’s struggling to reconcile one life with his kids and one life with me. I think he’s happy for a period and after some time these issues then rear their head again.

The only person who needs to figure out what they want is him. I’ve been very clear about what I am prepared to do in this relationship and what I am looking for in a relationship. My rhetoric has not changed one iota.

Had the situation with his exwife been lower conflict, things could have been different. But she isn’t and they aren’t. I have a lovely, peaceful, low conflict home life with my children and co-parenting relationship with my exh. Nothing on this earth will make me compromise on that one bit.

@oohthatrisottowasnice

Do you have children? Were your parenting challenges at 6 months the same as at 3 years, 8 years, teenager, young adult?! !I’m struggling a little with my DSD at eight years whereas I breezed 1-7 years. I guess I didn’t know what I was getting into

I'm not sure this scenario is what this thread is aimed at. I wouldn't expect as a step parent to experience none of the challenges that growing children bring. What I'd want to avoid are the additional and unique challenges that a blended family/step relationship brings

This thread is about neither parents or step parents really being able to know what lies ahead. I was trying to point out that just because DSC are already born does not mean that step-parents can know what they are getting into.

Also, sorry to everyone I haven’t replied to. Am at work and replying quickly on a coffee run.
@Jennifer2r yes younger children are boring, repetitive, hard work and demanding. I know as I’ve done those grinding years.
I think an underlying part of this (potentially) is that he’d like some adult company when he has his kids. They are emotionally exhausting (because he sees them so little they are emotionally very very very demanding of his time and attention). I understand what drives that and he needs to step up and meet those needs, not me. Equally I think I’ve done the right thing for these children by stepping back and giving their relationship this space and time. They need it.

The thing is, if he was to come to me and say ‘I’m struggling, I find it hard. I fought for this, but I find my kids hard work, I need some support. Can you help?’ That’s a very different conversation and I would say ‘what is it you need? Is there a compromise I can make so you get support?’

But he doesn’t. His children are amazing, they are lovely to be around. Why wouldn’t I want to spend time with them? I’m the person who isn’t normal by opting to sit back and say ‘your circus, your monkeys.’

I think there is some underlying stuff here at play and I am going to take the time to surface it

@MissyB1 also, I don’t ‘blame’ him one iota if he wants a hands on partner. But I categorically do blame him if he reconciled with me knowing that, in the hope that I may change my mind. That’s on him entirely.

@MzHz that’s interesting re the ‘other people’. Like I said, this is a point I plan to press on. Tbh I couldn’t give a monkeys who the other people are. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. The only person who would be on the hook re his children is me and by proxy my children, not the supposed ‘people’ giving him their opinions.

*That’s a very different conversation and I would say ‘what is it you need? Is there a compromise I can make so you get support?’

But he doesn’t. His children are amazing, they are lovely to be around. Why wouldn’t I want to spend time with them? I’m the person who isn’t normal by opting to sit back and say ‘your circus, your monkeys.*’

I can say the very finite difference between the two are one is a expectation of support non defined and could be unlimited access and the other is support request in a specific area (with boundaries and parameters set in place)

Small difference big impact. Expectations you to do it (gasp if you won't want to) and one where your limit is agreed and set.

You sound like you have your head screwed on perfectly to me tbh.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/stepparenting/4327999-Just-ended-it-because-I-don-t-like-his-kids

Here’s the thread a few of you are referencing. I’ll take a read of it tonight. I posted briefly on it but didn’t RTFT so it sounds like it is worth a full read

Yes that was the point of my post. He's trying to guilt you into being a more hands on mother type by invoking the opinions of some nameless majority rather than by actually telling you he can't cope. I'd find it deeply unattractive to be honest.

You sound like you have your head screwed on perfectly to me tbh.*

Agreed.

@sassbott my mum use to say to me things like "people will say..."

So when I was a teen I asked her "What people?"

As the people who were extended family, family friends and neighbours would talk to me directly if I was out of hand. She never could answer. It was just her way of trying to guilt me into doing things.

Ask him exactly who are the "people" he's concerned about.

Then ask him why he isn't concerned about your feelings.

Also tell him you put your children who you are legally responsible for needs first. Explain that you are not legally responsible for his children so won't be doing any childcare and housekeeping for them so there is no point in you living together until his children are much older.

candlelightsatdawn and I agreed on another thread expecting that your female partner if you are male will do the majority of the childcare and housekeeping is misogynistic.

@oohthatrisottowasnice sorry I haven’t clarified some points and great question. No I do not live with my partner and never have and never intend to. His exwife is exceptionally high conflict, his children were weaponised against me and as a result I have put in clear boundaries about how much his dysfunction is able to impact my home, my family and me. When we reconciled (and these were conversations we had pre break up), I made it clear that until such time that the children are older, in my view it is in everyone’s best interests to maintain separate homes. Allow the respective children to enjoy their time with their parents and not complicate matters

Bravo @sassbott, I applaud this approach. I'm a person in the "you knew what you were getting into" camp and in your case, your foresaw the issue and created your own conditions. Clearly it's not been without bumps for you but you've insulated yourself from the worst.

In my experience men are very likely to want the Disney blended family and don't see any reason why you can't all just move in together and get along, more so than single mums. I think this is because their life gets easier when this happens whilst women know theirs is likely to get harder.

You recognise that and are resisting taking on any more, as is sensible but he doesn't see why as it wouldn't affect him the same way.

Stand your ground, I made myself ill trying to meet everyone's needs but mine whilst the ex merrily carried on oblivious.

*In most cases, it’s not the actions of the sdc that cause the most problems, it’s those of their mother. Often it’s all hunky dory while it’s a newish relationship and once it’s more serious the claws come out.

Of course, how the H deals with it all is crucial*

Yes @MzHz I absolutely agree with this. There was a huge sea change in my experience once we got engaged, despite ex W being in a committed relationship of her own. It's bizarre. You'd think the added stability would be considered a good thing but no...

@sassbott as ever, you talk a huge amount of sense!

I do think it's difficult to compare step children and your own children directly. There are differences in the sense that you can meet the children before hand and in some ways (not all and not always!), know a little about what you're getting involved in.

I do think a better comparison is actually marriage.

It's not the same because you get to experience it before committing and it's possible to walk away at any point

This is exactly the same as marriage in a way. How many people though tell someone on the relationship board that they "knew what they were getting into" and refuse to give any helpful advice beyond that.

I experienced my husband before I married him, "try before you buy" or whatever you want to call it. However, there's nothing to say that things won't then change down the line that I find difficult and struggle with. Yet I know if I posted here about it I would get mainly support I imagine not answers like "well you married him so you must have known what he was like".

And whilst experiencing step children beforehand may be correct, what you experience of a child at 4 and what you deal with when that child is 15 can be very different. Children change and evolve as they grow. You can experience them as they are in that moment, but anything beyond that is quite the same as a parent, new and ever changing and sometimes bloody challenging!

My lovely, sweet and gently DSS who I met at 6 is not the same now as a teenager. I had absolutely no experience of teenagers beforehand, I met a 6 year old then when I "committed", I am dealing with this with as much experience of teenagers as his parents have, none!

I came into my sd life when she was around 14 . My dh and her mum had been divorced for many years and he was divorced again ( Yes I am his 3rd wife ) So she was rightly very wary of me , understandably .
Took it at her speed , and led by her .
It was never a full on step parent relationship as such . I've never asked her to do something , never told her off etc.
Now she is closer to being an adult , she comes to me with any worries or woes , she confides in me ( I don't pass anything on to her father ) and if she phones up for a chat , it is my phone she will call .