A message to those who post ‘you knew what you were getting into’

[sassbott]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4323771-Regret-having-children

Lovely brave thread here from parents, discussing whether anyone regrets having children. From what I’ve read so far, there is a real mixed bag of responses. But there generally seems to be some common consensus.

1. admitting publicly that you regret having children is unlikely to go down well and you have to be super careful where (and whom) you share those honest feelings
2. the pressure on women to have to want to ‘procreate’ continues.

So in much the same way SM’s are piled in on here for voicing those feelings - some parents in RL experience the same.
And the same pressure that we see Sm’s in particular facing regards how they should feel regards children is the same pressure women who have chosen to not have children feel.

So the next time someone says ‘you knew what you were getting into, why are you with someone who had children’ perhaps show them this thread.
Parents struggle too. It’s hard. So why should step parents be able to voice the exact same feelings?

In terms of what he does for my children? Very little. There is absolutely no pressure on him to do anything. My exh lives close and is a very involved parent. One of my siblings lives within 30 mins if I really need any sort of one off help. I also have a nanny - who does all school pick ups/ food/ clothes washing etc.

He has helped once in a while if I have asked (ad hoc emergency holiday/ school runs as he wfh). And he has always helped if I have asked, which is quite rare.

The key is this. I have no expectation of how little/ how much time he spends with my children. He did at one point (pre reconciliation) say ‘well if you don’t want to spend time with my children, why would I spend time with yours?’

To which I responded ‘that’s completely fair, if you only want to see me when I’m minus kids, that’s completely fine by me. It will obviously restrict when you can see me but with my exh having 40-50% access I have free nights, so I’ll work with that.’

I am very content in my family of just my children and I. If he is there, he slots in just fine but he does nothing for them, there is no need. I cannot fathom why that is not the same for him and where this ‘need/ expectation’ comes from.

He needs to make his mind up. I think the problem is that at a core level, he really struggles with fully coming to terms with how little I actually wish to do regards his children. He also fails to fully take on board that at my children’s much older ages, they simply are not interested in playing ‘family’ with his children. That in turn layers pressure on me. My children fundamentally don’t want his kids there, he wants them there. Muggins here is caught in the middle.

I agree with other posters that he hasn't respected your boundaries and is attempting to push them.

Could you show him this thread, or write it in letter form? You have expressed yourself so well here, he is being deliberately obtuse if he has heard these words and not understood them.

I would tell him that your perspective has not changed and will not change, it is not what you want and if he can't let go of his resentment about it and stop trying to bring it up again it's just not going to work out. He seems to have become complacent about nagging you about this without consequence but needs to know his inability to respect your decision is putting real strain on the relationship and not something he can reasonably keep doing.

@Ragwort nope not me. No joint hols for us, my DC and I had lovely quality family time

Also, this has only just come up and I’d like to bottom out some of the comments to see where they’ve come from or whether they were said in the heat of the moment. I refused to have such a serious convo when I was in holiday mode with my children. There was no fire to bottom this out so I waited.

If after this convo, his views are clear, then I won’t be with him. It’s that simple in my view- we are at the core incompatible and there is no sense in continuing.

In terms of your question, I very much disagree with comments about how well documented the difficulties relating to step parenting are. I think an awful lot of people on here imagine that process from the POV of already being a parent and dedicating a lot of time to thinking about the ins and outs of raising children. They completely lose sight of how easy it is to be completely naive about that before having your own kids. You often find out the common problems after, not before, just like with actual parenting. Except the chances you'll regret it are much harder.

I think it needs to be much more well documented, but it's impossible to do that when the armies of people blithering about how disgusting they find it when step parents don't love their children like their own completely shut the conversation down. This is certainly what I've found outside of forums such as this one, which at least have some level of balance.

Why is so keen to spend so much time with his DC with you and your DC? Does he not like being with them on his own, sounds like he is wanting a childminder/babysitter or someone else to take the pressure of being with his DC?

How often is he with his own DC? It's not a very attractive trait that he can't entertain or even just enjoy their company without wanting to be with other people.

So what should I have done at that point? Walk away because an exwife was intent on trying to break us up?

Yes. Because this and his attitudes on my involvement with his kids wouldn’t align with what I wanted from life. It sounds way too stressful and not worth it at all. ‘Blended’ families on the whole do not work.

you knew what you were getting into

Funny how that comment is always aimed at women isn't it, never men.. OP YANBU, he's not listening to you or respecting your point of view.

@Optimist1

But it's different with step children, inasmuch as you can "try before you buy" - spend time with them, observe their relationship with their father and so on. I appreciate it would be very hard to discontinue your relationship if you weren't comfortable with the stepchildren, but you do have a choice to proceed or not.

In most cases, it’s not the actions of the sdc that cause the most problems, it’s those of their mother. Often it’s all hunky dory while it’s a newish relationship and once it’s more serious the claws come out.

Of course, how the H deals with it all is crucial

Indeed @aSofaNearYou

I think it needs to be much more well documented, but it's impossible to do that when the armies of people blithering about how disgusting they find it when step parents don't love their children like their own completely shut the conversation down.

Don’t forget the blithering of parents about step parents making an effort and having good relationships with their stepdc too.

The issue we face mostly is being on the losing side no matter what we do.

Oh and the “were you the OW?”

No, his ex dumped and divorced him years before I ever met him, but as soon as he did she didn’t like the loss of control and tried to ruin his every waking moment.

I think it needs to be much more well documented, but it's impossible to do that when the armies of people blithering about how disgusting they find it when step parents don't love their children like their own completely shut the conversation down

I think this is a really important point. Stepparents are often shut down when they ask questions. They might use one word that sets someone off or come across colder than a parent would, as they aren't a parent. And then get so much negativity back it stops them and others asking.

Bold fail but that was aSofaNearYou's comment

What does “bottom out” mean ?
How old are his children, how often are they with you both, and what does he want you to do with them ?

There is definitely some double standards involved - you're a woman for whom he has high expectations of family involvement.
But I suspect you also have very low standards of what you expect him to do with your children, as you are their mother not him, so you'd also like him to reciprocate the low expectation?

The problem here, I think, is the children's ages.

Of course, when anyone breaks up, with step children or their own children, you don't want the children to feel any blame over it. Children are often intuitive to feelings and can tend to feel that way anyway, if you don't address that with them.

His children appear to be very young? They are likely to feel rejection much more (in breaking up, but, also in family life).
I believe that's often why people go all-in-or-nothing when it comes to step-children. And when you get involved with someone with young children, you need to bear in mind their ages as you simply cannot be the most important person in your partner's life.

You’re not wrong @sassbott, you know you’re not

You’re always someone who has the measured sensible and pragmatic response that always helps the op.

It’s hard when you’re the one who’s in the thick of it tho, YANBU

Your partner has kids, they have 2 parents. They don’t need a third and you have enough to do.

I hope your partner can get his head around this

Is he wanting you more involved so he does less? Sod that!

@IWasBornInAThunderstorm same here! My dss was absolutely lovely and so was family life until me and dh got married and his ex became so consumed with bitterness. Her bitterness led to dss becoming jealous (because of things she put in his head like dh loves starry more than you, he cares more if she dies, they're going to have a baby and forget about you) and dh completely floundered as dad guilt then came out as his son wasn't happy and I've had the brunt of it. I did not chose this life, I did not chose to have this stress. I spoke extensively to dh around parenting, guilt parenting, step parenting and believed fully we were on the same page. I completely resent the life that I'm living now and try before you buy did not work as marriage brings something else to the table. A finale of mum and dad are not getting back together and mum is unhappy leads to lots of upset and a situation that I'm in but have no control over.

I don't know that "you can try before you buy" is fair comment. Relationships develop and things evolve and change in ways you might not have wanted or predicted. The step parent gig is exactly the same.
Of course, if it was an utter shit show from the get go and you persevered, more fool you. That goes for any poor behaviour at the start of a relationship though, not just dynamics with kids and ex's.
Not true to say you should have seen it all coming after you commited. Otherwise you could say "she should have predicted her marriage would break down and not had any children, or just not married at all actually". Presumably (hopefully?) things started from a high point and went downhill. Well, it's the same for us poor step mum's, too.

Step parenting can be a fairly grim and thankless task. If you've got 2 functioning parents who can co parent then it shouldn't be to arduous. However if that parenting dynamic is flawed consider your options! I've had to co parent my DSS and not step parent as has my DP with my DD's. I think we've both had to step up so it's well balanced between us. That said we are really not The Walton's though I have tried & tried to blend our family. Have given up now and am just focusing on what works for those that want and need it.

Yeah, I expected it didn't go both ways!

He wants you to do all things child related because you're a woman.

On the subject of 'you can try before you buy with a step-family' - not true in all situations. You don't truly know what you are getting into until you all move in together. In my circumstances this couldn't happen until we got married as it involved major life changes for both of us - neither of us had a house big enough for all of the kids to have a room, therefore it involved major upheaval of selling houses/extensions etc. You don't go through all of that until you are fully committed to living together etc, whether that be with marriage or not. Although I was clear right from the start with my partner that I never wanted to be a hands-on parent to his kids, even after we moved in together, I feel like there was still an expectation that I would change my mind after we moved in.

OP your situation sounds a bit similar and I think you should stand your ground and do what you are comfortable with. I got to the point around a year ago where I actually said if you continue with these expectations then we will have to split up as you're forcing me to do something I don't want to do. He soon backed off. I do think that a lot of men are looking for someone to do the wife work when they split with their first wives. I don't know if this is true of your partner but it's definitely true of many.

I don’t think you are compatible, OP. You say you’re perfectly happy to see him when he’s on his own; he seems to wants a Brady Bunch blended family.

I don’t think he’s capable of respecting your boundaries because he sees the relationship in a fundamentally different way to you.

It all sounds like hard work. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone where I was expected (pressured?) to put up with a dynamic I didn't want. This is not you trying and then backing out saying it's too hard - it sounds like you've always been clear about what the relationship entails (or doesn't).

Sweeping statement here: but I do think that single men with kids expect women to help look after their children and just slot into the step parent role. Women don't expect the same.

@sassbott my two pence.

I think the people he's referencing are actually society's standard for women. You see it in the thread mentioned above, particularly for women, do not mention it's hard or you may have regretted it otherwise your a "unwomen" less womenly somehow, the kind of judgement which is not given to men. Like the nurture instinct can only be given by the women. Ignoring the many other societies where men are the child rearers and the nurtures.

It's what our society has for generations drilled into people, girls get dolls and prams, boys get trucks.

For your partner to tackle this he has be aware of the inner bias that's driving that uncomfortable feeling and realistically be honest with you about if he can be comfortable being uncomfortable. Not going but I want you but kinda would prefer if you were x, subtly shaming you for not instantly conforming.

If it keeps coming up I suspect it's due to him really not being at peace with it. Some people think they have flex but truly don't have as much flex as they thought, will say they have flex but try to bring the horse around as it were.Neither you or your partner are wrong, but it is wrong to flex if your doing it "just because". You wouldn't know how much flex you had until your asked to do it.

The reason why "you knew what you were getting into" question is moot point for the same reason "would you be able to kill someone" is moot point. You may think you know how you would react, but mostly people act on their base nature which may not align with their perception of their nature in that moment. No one is mystic Meg, the self righteous will say well i know what the outcome would be, but truly are the most misguided of them all.

Unless anyone is mystic Meg and then of course please dm next week lottery numbers ! Thank you in advance.

Just my two pence and please don't read this as a judgement.

I think many step parents have unrealistic expectations and are very short sighted. It has never appealed to me. Relationships are a minefield at the best of time. So many men just expect the step mum to take up where the ex wife left off and vice versa, even though there are no biological bonds.
You see so many similar threads on here, l think that's why there is a lack of sympathy. Basically the answer would be " What did you expect? "

@Optimist1 & @Doyoumind it's not that different actually. I was default babysitter for all my nieces & nephews (my siblings all older than I) for years & it still did not prepare me for motherhood, & the truth of the matter is that thinking you're ready to be a parent does not equate with being a parent.

Same goes for step-parenting.
I work with kids & teens & so when I met my exdp I was pretty confident that I could handle things. What I could never have foretold was that,
A) their dm (& exdp's 'handling' of her) would cause massive problems which only kicked off about 18 months in, &
B) I assumed I would develop the same relationship with his dc as I have with my nieces & nephews (this is also the type of relationship I thought he would develop with my dc, which he did), but he expected me to have the warm & fuzzies. He expected me to care as much as he did & to facilitate them as much as he wanted to facilitate them & I wanted to do neither. I did not expect this of him so why did he expect it of me?
Like you @sassbott there was this underlying sense from his family & from him that I was wrong for not putting myself out to spend more time with his dc & mothering his dc. Like you I work full time & juggling that with 3 dc moving between pre teen, teen & uni years was as much as I could handle. I did not have the resources to be emotionally responsible for 3 other children & it was really unfair that I was expected to.
I also had people ask me why wouldn't I move (& uproot my dc out of school) so he & I could be nearer his dc who of course would not have to move schools as they were resident with their dm!!!
These attitudes were & are unfathomable to me & they really highlighted
A) just how deep rooted the expectation is that in a (heteronormative) relationship a woman should always do what suits & is easiest for the man, &
B) how in a blended situation there still exists this widespread, deep rooted the notion that the man's 'first' children should be prioritised over everyone else including the woman's own children.
When exdp & I would discuss these issues I would get called
Inflexible,
Hard,
Blunt,
Sharp.
My response? I was none of those things I was merely focused on what was best for my dc; that I would support him in his parenting but that I could not do it for him & furthermore all those above adjectives are only negatives when ascribed to women - they are positives when ascribed to men who are then seen as being straight talkers who know what they want & sure aren't they great!
Subtle & insidious misogyny is still very much alive and well in all strata of society & honestly it's an uphill battle trying to fight it.
@sassbott if your dp just cannot see the logic in where you're coming from then you could have a long 'fight' on your hands. I do think he may not be discussing you with others but it does sound like they are discussing you with him iyswim.
I felt I had finally gotten through to my exdp about not blending, but his response was to then remove his children from me fully. In one way this was a good thing as they had turned quite unpleasant. But actually he was sulking - as in "You won't do as I want therefore I will take your lack of warm & fuzzies about my dc & despite you being prepared to compromise on days out & other stuff we won't agree to even those because if you're not prepared to have 6 teenagers in your house all weekend eating incessantly & fighting over the TVs & the Xbox then you're not being nice enough & I won't play ball & I'll only see you when I'm not working & when I don't have the dc which will may only be 2 nights out of 14. Nor will I address my dc's terrible behaviour because I choose to only see that when I want to".
End of.
No further negotiation.
So basically I got 'punished' for being realistic, logical & standing my ground & I'd say this was made all the easier for him by family members saying how 'odd' my behaviour was.

But in truth they were people who didn't really accept his divorce & neither did his exw & dc so I was always being pushed to the outer edges & they were very happy to do this.
I just don't understand how men like this see not fully blending as a bad thing & some form of rejection! And I think it all boils down to this misogynistic belief that women somehow exist to make their lives & by extension the lives of their golden offspring easier & I'm not sure it can actually be changed.
The expedition on women to glide through life handling everyone's baggage is massive & if we refuse to do so? Well then we are 'Nasty Women'. It's fine for men to be pragmatic, realistic & healthily boundaried - just not women & especially not when it comes to children.

Also great post & points @candlelightsatdawn. My exdp thought he had great flex - he didn't - not when it came to children & mothering.