What do you think? Clingy adult stepdaughter

[foodiefil]

My stepdaughter is 23 and for the last year has been at home studying for her degree- which is really unfortunate because at any other time she'd be able to enjoy uni life on campus but the pandemic obviously stopped that.

She comes to ours 3x a week.

She's always been quite clingy/needy but this is escalating.

Dh finds it stressful.

Examples:

• DH & I are sitting on one couch, SD turns up and balances herself next to DH at the end of the couch - leaving a full couch empty. This eventually develops into legs on DH until he had to ask her to move them because he was uncomfortable.

• calling him daddy.

• lots of random hugs and kisses for my DH and her forehead on his forehead for short chats.

• if we're in the kitchen sorting out a meal or leave the room for any reason she'll follow and find us.

• has to be involved in every conversation - even really mundane ones about stupid things like the washer being finished "what?".

• general poor personal space awareness.

I don't think there's anything I can do to deal with this I think it needs to come from DH but I just wondered what other people thought and if they had any similar experience/advice.

I have a good relationship with SD, it's not always been that way but we do get on and I love her and care for her.

@Branleuse

some people are more clingy than others, well into adulthood. Im not sure its something you can teach her at this stage. I would hope at home is where she can be herself the most, but I can imagine it does get a bit much. Hopefully she will move out soon.

yes i think it's certainly just part of who she is but she has periods of it ramping up and it does get a bit much. i just feel like it's a symptom of something and want to help her with it.

I have a high achieving 23 year old with ASD, being clever certainly doesn't rule out SN, although I think the last thing he'd want to do is sit on my knee and call me mummy! Her behaviour does sound strange, but then to be fair it has been as strange year, I think many of us have gone a bit wonky.

You both need to make her flush the toilet every time she leaves it unflushed.

What is your husband doing about this? I'd suggest that, as a minimum, every time she perches next to him he simply moves away; ditto when she tries the forehead to forehead thing.

@Zzelda

You both need to make her flush the toilet every time she leaves it unflushed.

What is your husband doing about this? I'd suggest that, as a minimum, every time she perches next to him he simply moves away; ditto when she tries the forehead to forehead thing.

Agreed, that's what we did with DC age 10. You don't have to be nasty about it just factual and call it out every time.

You don't need to 'find a way' to talk to her about the toilet issue. Next time you see her just tell her she has to flush the toilet in your house. It's a basic hygiene requirement and she's disgusting if she leaves it in a mess.

As for sitting on the edge of the couch, for gods sake tell her to sit on a chair or maybe Dh should start getting up and sitting elsewhere to see if she follows. She needs to grow up pretty quickly if she plans on heading back to uni.

I know I just feel really uncomfortable about it - about saying anything. It's really awkward.

Definitely with the toilet thing, whoever finds it should just shout out "Omg, whoever has left this toilet like this can you please come and flush it?!" Then it's not so direct but hopefully will still have the desired affect.

Also is she sitting on the arm of your chair/sofa?? If yes..."SD can you please get off the arm of the sofa, you'll break it"..................my mum never let me sit on the arm of the sofa!

FGS she is a grown adult! By 23 its quite normal to be fully fledged independent perhaps even with a family of ones own.

I agree it sounds like she may have some additional needs regarding social interaction but you will do her NO FAVOURS by failing to address her inappropriate behaviour. She will need to navigate the world as an adult and that includes learning to respect boundaries.

@FijiCavanaugh

FGS she is a grown adult! By 23 its quite normal to be fully fledged independent perhaps even with a family of ones own.

I agree it sounds like she may have some additional needs regarding social interaction but you will do her NO FAVOURS by failing to address her inappropriate behaviour. She will need to navigate the world as an adult and that includes learning to respect boundaries.

I agree. Quite surprised to see some of these comments. She is a fully grown adult acting like a child and making her own father feel uncomfortable with how touchy-feely she's being. Needs to be nipped in the bud.

I know I absolutely agree it isn't doing her any favours whatsoever.

She has some bad social habits, the personal space thing and being touchy feely and "in someone's face" but also she tells tall tails - I think to make herself seem more interesting - but it's led to serious falling outs with good friends.

I don't think she even realises what she's doing.

Op can I say you sound absolutely lovely x

I’m with the recent posters here, sorry but at 23 she’s an adult and some of these behaviours are disgusting!

You said this isn’t new behaviour but older issues popping up and I’m not remotely surprised to hear that. It’s very unlikely that at 23 suddenly someone (irrespective of covid) develops a whole ‘new’ set of behaviours. What has covid got to do with personal space and basic hygiene?

How were these issues handled when she was younger? Sorry but tip to’ing around these issues? And finding ways to reward the behaviour? Wtaf?
If as a parent, your DH cannot have direct conversations with his own child, then that’s a failure as a parent.
Who else is prepared to call her on her behaviour?

It really shouldn't be "really awkward" to address the issue re the loo. Just find her, say "You seem to have forgotten to flush the toilet, please could you go and do it now" and insist that she does it immediately if she shows any sign of procrastinating, pointing out how unhygienic it is. She should learn pretty quickly that it's in her own interest to sort this out.

Thank you @Endofether x

@sassbott this is exactly it, he doesn't feel comfortable having an straight conversation about issues. He has always skirted around things. He's like this generally. It is detrimental to everyone but in particular dsd because it's allowed this behaviour to carry on into adulthood and I really worry it will affect friendships and relationships for her in the long term.

@Zzelda yes you're right I have to just tackle it if I'm the one to discover it.

Telling silly lies.
Leaving messes in the loo.
No sense of personal space.
Infantile language on and off.

These are behaviours I might expect in 7yo and would be training it out of them. The fact she is 23 and at uni is mind boggling! He needs to be leading on managing this or it will never get better and she will continue to struggle. Its very serious as it will affect her work, relationships, social life and long term stability and mental health.

Can neither of you speak to her mother to agree an approach?

@foodiefil I’m not surprised to hear this. And it’s what many threads on here discuss time after time with younger children.

I had an toilet incident with my exp’s children, deliberate ‘smearing’ of poo left by his eldest. I found said toilet in a disgusting state and told him to go and get his child and teach said child that that was not an acceptable way to leave a toilet, and that if they needed help clearing up, to get an adult to help but to not leave it like that. What did he do? Mutter angrily at me the child was young and cleaned it for them. Let me make it clear that by that same age, my children knew how to use a toilet brush to clean the toilet.

A perfectly good teaching/ parenting opportunity missed. I can probably give you dozens more examples. Of young children not having simple things tackled by their parents. And I’m afraid to say - what you have now is what it looks like when these ‘children’ reach adult hood. No one has robustly parented and had tricky/ uncomfortable conversations. Which is part and parcel of parenting.

I don’t think this is for you to resolve. You find the toilet in that state, call it out and say ‘that’s disgusting please ensure you clean up after yourself.’

The rest of her behaviour? Your DH needs to speak to her. I find it unfathomable that people enable their children to operate in this way and don’t even attempt to correct the behaviours. (Not tackling this stuff is a form of enablement).

I had an toilet incident with my exp’s children, deliberate ‘smearing’ of poo left by his eldest.

How old was the child who did this? I wouldn't expect this from anyone more than a toddler age...4 years max, assuming they don't have special needs.

Thank you both @FijiCavanaugh @sassbott

You've absolutely confirmed my fears on this one. It's not the type of behaviour that should be tolerated and allowed to continue.
At Christmas her lies were getting out of hand, it made every conversation difficult because you didn't know if what she was telling you was true or completely made up. I caught her out once when she showed me a photo on her phone that was apparently from her "friend" and I could see the name of the person who's picture it was so checked Facebook and the woman was in America and it had had thousands of likes and comments. That's the thin end of the wedge. She used to say when she was on her walks with friends that men tried to pull them into cars.

It's all part of the same issue.

My DH carries a lot of guilt because he left their mum. That was nearly 20 years ago and if I was him I'd have more guilt about letting this kind of behaviour carry on.

I wanted to talk to her mum around Christmas. I didn't. I took DH's lead. I've spoken to her before about other issues and found her to be very nice and supportive, not "my child wouldn't do that" so I think she'd take on board what I say but ultimately it's for DH to do. They are the co-parents.

@SandyY2K it was much older than 4. Even I wouldn’t be that strict with a 3/4 year old (although I would still gently explain to get an adult to help clean a toilet and to not leave it like that.)

This isn’t your issue to resolve. Step back.
I’m with you, if I had enabled one of my children to behave this way, I’d be quite upset.

The lies are really worrying. Has anyone even called her out on them and asked why she does this? What exactly does your DH do when it comes to parenting if it’s not even addressing blatant lies from his child? And serious ones at that. Who lies about a man trying to pull them into a car? That’s police reporting territory.

@sassbott I've said this to him. He loves them but he doesn't parent them. He prefers to try and be their friend.
I did the ring the police. That's when it transpired it hadn't happened.

You sound like a great stepmum.

There is quite a lot going on here - could you DH, and her mother all get together to talk about the best way forward? It would be good to share perspectives I think, and between you it might be easier to get to what’s lying underneath it. I also think if your DH isnt great at any kind of conflict, her mother might have to take the lead on conversations, with back up from you too.

The lying really needs to come to an end because it’s going to make her look absolutely ridiculous to other people (teen friends might tolerate it, colleagues and new friends won’t); plus yes the neediness and lack of boundaries. The leaving the loo unflushed is territorial - but it’s also incredibly babyish.

Anyway, I was going to say I think it might be worth considering some sessions with a therapist? You can’t send her as you would a child, but if she can accept the story telling and neediness mask insecurity she can hopefully talk openly about it in a therapeutic space.

I'd also be looking at some well-masked special needs in the autism/ADD zone. Subtle social problems and misunderstandings creating social anxiety; failure to understand boundaries and personal space; inappropriate personal habits; choosing older people as friends because their peers grow up at a faster rate...

A good life coach could be the answer. Someone who has experience with special needs. Expect slow progress at the start, but once she starts to cotton on, she may startle you with the sudden growth in her understanding.

@partyatthepalace

You sound like a great stepmum.

There is quite a lot going on here - could you DH, and her mother all get together to talk about the best way forward? It would be good to share perspectives I think, and between you it might be easier to get to what’s lying underneath it. I also think if your DH isnt great at any kind of conflict, her mother might have to take the lead on conversations, with back up from you too.

The lying really needs to come to an end because it’s going to make her look absolutely ridiculous to other people (teen friends might tolerate it, colleagues and new friends won’t); plus yes the neediness and lack of boundaries. The leaving the loo unflushed is territorial - but it’s also incredibly babyish.

Anyway, I was going to say I think it might be worth considering some sessions with a therapist? You can’t send her as you would a child, but if she can accept the story telling and neediness mask insecurity she can hopefully talk openly about it in a therapeutic space.

Thank you I do like the idea of speaking to her mum. Just to ask if these issues crop up at home and if they do how are they dealt with? If they don't then why not? Dsd had some counselling a few years ago but hasn't had any since. This is certainly something I'd be supportive of and would encourage.

@SpaceshiptoMars

I'd also be looking at some well-masked special needs in the autism/ADD zone. Subtle social problems and misunderstandings creating social anxiety; failure to understand boundaries and personal space; inappropriate personal habits; choosing older people as friends because their peers grow up at a faster rate...

A good life coach could be the answer. Someone who has experience with special needs. Expect slow progress at the start, but once she starts to cotton on, she may startle you with the sudden growth in her understanding.

This is a really interesting perspective. And could well be what's going on. There seems to be some mimicking. I've suggested this to dh though and he wasn't receptive. She's a bright hard working girl but has some problems, that's for sure.