Holiday Advice - what's the right thing to do?

[WalkingDead02]

Just a bit of background info...

My husband has a 12 year old from a previous relationship. He lives over 300 Miles away with his mum, and comes to stay with us for 1 week during each of the school holidays. We also have a 2 year old together.

My parents are offering to pay for a trip away for us all together (my parents, my brother's family and our family) and have asked when we can go. My husband has said that unless everyone can agree on a date that means his son (my step-son) can come too, then we aren't going as it isnt fair that he misses out.

I am torn on what is the 'right thing' to do. I obviously want my step-son there and will do everything I can to ensure this, but the situation is very difficult. I also dont want our 2 year old missing out on a holiday because of this. What is the right thing to do? Argh!

@SandyY2K

I'm merely doing exactly as much as you are.... speculating. No one knows apart from OP and her partner

Actually, I'm going on the information provided and taking it at face value. I'm not speculating.

My parents are offering to pay for a trip away for us all together (my parents, my brother's family and our family) and have asked when we can go. My husband has said that unless everyone can agree on a date that means his son (my step-son) can come too, then we aren't going as it isnt fair that he misses out.

I'd say it's very clear.

Parents offered to pay for OP and her family to go on holiday and asked when they can go.

He's gone on to say that unless everyone can agree a date that his son can make OP, him or DS2 cannot go.

But you don't know the situation surrounding this, neither do I. There's been a lot of speculating on this thread - expecting in laws to pay, first child more important than second etc (all stuff that has been guessed). We don't even know the conversation surrounding the no one goes comment? Maybe OP told her partner she didn't want to go without him, so he turned and said ok then so we either go with DS1 or no one goes?! Who knows! Only they do.. The comment about only ever thinking about dC2 could come from his dp saying she doesn't want to go without him so he's being made to choose etc. Who knows?!

This child sees his Dad 5 weeks a year, his Dad gets 5 weeks Annual leave, so he takes one of those weeks this year outside of school holidays (or not the week he's due his DS) and suddenly he's down to 4 weeks a year with his DS. Who knows whether that's the sort of issue they had to work out. The OP is so vague it's impossible to really know what happened.

If it's as clear cut as the OP states, and there's no back ground story, then I think he sounds like a shitty husband, but there are so many variables I wonder what else is going on and is it as simple as it sounds.

What if the OP's husband were to say " it was nice of your parents to offer but I just do not enjoy spending time with them. You and son go along with them and have a nice time.? Would so many people be calling him a "knob" or " dick"?

Yes, absolutely, unless they had done something indisputable to offend him that would be worse! I have spent a huge amount of time with his parents for his sake, even though I would prefer to be elsewhere. I have obviously spend an even huger amount of my time and energy on his son for his sake. I would consider it the height of hypocrisy for him to be accusing me of not thinking about his son enough when this is the level of effort he is willing to put himself out to make with my family, for my sake.

I understand that your partner wouldn't want to go away without his son. However I'm a firm believer of it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

My reply would be that I can understand (would you go away without your son when he's older and take your other child - I wouldn't) but I won't accept you telling me whether I can go or not.

To be fair to him he is probably a bit hurt that his son don't get included after all your partner came as a package when you first met him.

@Bumblebee1980a

I understand that your partner wouldn't want to go away without his son. However I'm a firm believer of it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

My reply would be that I can understand (would you go away without your son when he's older and take your other child - I wouldn't) but I won't accept you telling me whether I can go or not.

To be fair to him he is probably a bit hurt that his son don't get included after all your partner came as a package when you first met him.

I wouldn't expect DS to be included, it's nice if his DS is treated as if he's part of OP's family, but I wouldn't have an expectation that he is, esp as in this instance he must see very little, if anything, of OP's family due to how little contact he has with his Dad.

I agree he shouldn't speak like that to her, she shouldn't put up with that, full stop. I'm just not willing to put all of my money on it's a first child priority thing like some earlier posters said. OP's dp sees very little of his son (a reason that we don't know why, apart from distance), if I was in the position of having a holiday that would mean something changes that year with regards to contact, I wouldn't just take it and say crack on - I'd want to try and include my DS so there is no impact. So unless OP comes back and says actually there's no risk to any part of SDC's contact then I'm going to sit on the fence with this one.

@Tiredoftattler

What if the OP's husband were to say " it was nice of your parents to offer but I just do not enjoy spending time with them. You and son go along with them and have a nice time.?

Would so many people be calling him a "knob" or " dick"? The net effect would be the same;for whatever the reason the husband would not be going on the trip.

I am having trouble grasping why people think it objectionable for the wife and child to go on the trip without the father. We have no evidence that the father does not spend quality time with the toddler. Why is it essential or necessary that he take part in this particular trip?

What he should not be doing is preventing the OP and the toddler from going on the trip. I fail to see how he is emotionally abusing his wife by stating his perception of her thoughts and feelings about his older child if indeed that is his honest belief.

Saying that the OP only thinks of her child may or may not be true, but it may be what he thinks. Stating your belief about a situation is in no way abusive; it is a way to start an honest dialogue.

I am not defending the OP's husband's behavior because I think that as presented it sounds controlling, but he does have a right to his own parenting perspective.

Many of the people criticizing the husband would likely not be overly thrilled about a holiday with their ILs. Perhaps the husband shares that sentiment and is just too polite to state that as his reason.

The long and the short of it is that there is nothing stopping the OP and her child from going on this trip.

I just can't believe the hypocrisy on this forum sometimes.

What if the OP's husband were to say " it was nice of your parents to offer but I just do not enjoy spending time with them. You and son go along with them and have a nice time.?

Would so many people be calling him a "knob" or " dick"? The net effect would be the same;for whatever the reason the husband would not be going on the trip.

Maybe OP could say this to him about her stepson? No chance that would be acceptable though is there. She will be expected to embrace her DH's son, spend loads of time with him, holiday with him, etc etc. But she can't expect the same respect back from him when it comes to her own family.

Both sides have families here, and lets face it, family holidays can be a bit stressful and it's nice to have your partner by your side, particularly if you also have a 2 year old to run around after. It could also put OP in a difficult position in explaining to her own family that her DH won't come due to SS not coming - it could make them feel awkward and uncomfortable and like they've done something wrong by not factoring him in from the start, when the reality is that SS likely wouldn't be around on the week they chose since he mainly lives with his mum. This trip could take place without him even knowing or being impacted by it at all.

I would understand if the scenario was that the trip was happening in the only week available for SS to be with his dad, but it doesn't sound like that's the case at all since it seems the dates are still being agreed.

OP shouldn't have to always take her child away alone because her DH refuses to come without his older child, who spends most of his time elsewhere anyway.

Again, if he was there and it was a matter of sending him to grandparents or holiday club to go on this trip, then I would totally understand the DH. But this would be a week when SS isn't around (otherwise he'd be on this trip by the sounds of it), isn't due to be around, and it's time spent with people he likely barely knows.

Tbh I'm surprised that this dad would want his week with his son in the school holidays to be spent with OP's family anyway.

@Bumblebee1980a

I understand that your partner wouldn't want to go away without his son. However I'm a firm believer of it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

My reply would be that I can understand (would you go away without your son when he's older and take your other child - I wouldn't) but I won't accept you telling me whether I can go or not.

To be fair to him he is probably a bit hurt that his son don't get included after all your partner came as a package when you first met him.

Let's hope he feels the same way about including his younger child in everything he does with SS as the years pass as well. I bet he won't though! Seems fine for the younger child to miss out on loads, including in this case a holiday with their dad. But as long as SS doesn't miss out on his holiday with his dad, that's fine.

Or maybe he wants to have a holiday with both of his children bibidy and doesn't want to feel like he has to choose?

@Bibidy

Let's hope he feels the same way about including his younger child in everything he does with SS as the years pass as well. I bet he won't though!

But you can't foresee the future so you don't know this do you 🙄

Seems fine for the younger child to miss out on loads, including in this case a holiday with their dad. But as long as SS doesn't miss out on his holiday with his dad, that's fine.

The dad isn't saying go without him is he 🤷‍♀️

Anyway, I don't know why you're replying to me as I'm giving my opinion to the OP 👋🏼

@ALevelhelp

Or maybe he wants to have a holiday with both of his children bibidy and doesn't want to feel like he has to choose?

Exactly!

Surely he doesn't get to stamp his feet because op's family won't revolve their lives about dc they aren't related to?
Planning a holiday for his ds isn't their job...

What if the OP's husband were to say " it was nice of your parents to offer but I just do not enjoy spending time with them. You and son go along with them and have a nice time.?

Would so many people be calling him a "knob" or " dick"? The net effect would be the same;for whatever the reason the husband would not be going on the trip.

Thing is, intentions matter. The net effect might be the same in various circumstances, but what led to it matters enormously.

Consider the huge differences between the following:

'I don't have enough annual leave so if it isn't on a week I've already booked off with DSS, I won't be able to make it'

'I just don't enjoy spending time with your family. I don't want to go'

'No one is going if DSS isn't. How dare you not think of him first'

The first one is reasonable and understandable. The second one is being a bit of a knob about their in laws (which may be fair enough depending on circumstances, or it might just be being a knob). The third is being a total knob who thinks he's in charge of everyone and who is happy to emotionally abuse his partner.

How you get there usually matters as much as, if not more than, the destination.

To be fair to him he is probably a bit hurt that his son don't get included after all your partner came as a package when you first met him

I think this is unfair when it's OPs family we are talking about and who are arranging the holiday. I mean, he lives 300 miles away, how much opportunity have they really had to get to know him and to include him. As harsh as it sounds they probably don't see them as a package because he's barely there.

As PPs pointed out, you can't expect everyone else to essentially pay double so that DSS, who they probably barely know, can come in the school holidays.

Although I agree that your husband stays behind if he thinks DSS will be upset.

Maybe OP could say this to him about her stepson? No chance that would be acceptable though is there. She will be expected to embrace her DH's son, spend loads of time with him, holiday with him, etc etc. But she can't expect the same respect back from him when it comes to her own family.

So glad somebody else could see the hypocrisy there. Some parents really seem blind to the extensive level of effort they expect from their partners towards their side of the family through their step children. The lack of natural inclination to extend the same courtesy in return here would strick me as really self absorbed.

@TheStubbornGoat

As PPs pointed out, you can't expect everyone else to essentially pay double so that DSS, who they probably barely know, can come in the school holidays.

I never said that. If that's the case then they should go but that wasn't mentioned in her original post.

I would expect the dad to pay for his older son also go when it suits everyone.

@ALevelhelp

Or maybe he wants to have a holiday with both of his children bibidy and doesn't want to feel like he has to choose?

I do understand that, but I would bet that isn't the scenario at hand. Yes, I know we can't be sure it isn't but the majority of times when this exact thing arises on here it's just the case that dad doesn't want to go without his older child, not that OP is suggesting their only holiday is without him and with her own family.

If he wants to stay home and is still OK for OP to go with their son, hopefully they'll be both on the same page and he will have SS that week so they can both focus on their own families.

@aSofaNearYou

Maybe OP could say this to him about her stepson? No chance that would be acceptable though is there. She will be expected to embrace her DH's son, spend loads of time with him, holiday with him, etc etc. But she can't expect the same respect back from him when it comes to her own family.

So glad somebody else could see the hypocrisy there. Some parents really seem blind to the extensive level of effort they expect from their partners towards their side of the family through their step children. The lack of natural inclination to extend the same courtesy in return here would strick me as really self absorbed.

We don't know how much time OP's dp spends with his in laws? Maybe he sees them on a very regular basis and is very respectful of them?

[quote Bumblebee1980a]@TheStubbornGoat

As PPs pointed out, you can't expect everyone else to essentially pay double so that DSS, who they probably barely know, can come in the school holidays.

I never said that. If that's the case then they should go but that wasn't mentioned in her original post.

I would expect the dad to pay for his older son also go when it suits everyone. [/quote]
No but OP mentions in her OP that DSS comes every school holiday. That suggests he's in school.

Their two year old isn't.

So it's not a huge leap to assume if DSS came it would need to be during the school holidays which as everyone knows triples the price.

We don't know how much time OP's dp spends with his in laws? Maybe he sees them on a very regular basis and is very respectful of them?

You're missing context, we were both replying to a hypothetical put forward by Tattler.

We don't know how much time OP's dp spends with his in laws? Maybe he sees them on a very regular basis and is very respectful of them?

I'm sure he is, but does that really change the situation? I don't feel like the issue is that he doesn't like OP's family and just doesn't want to go.

My DP sees my parents most weeks and gets on well with them, but if this scenario happened to us it would make things difficult and awkward for me, and would probably make my parents worry that they had upset my partner.

My point was more that most step-parents have to be way more involved and spend lots more intense time with their partner's children than anyone ever usually has to with their in-laws, so one week away with them without SS shouldn't really be a big ask from the DH here.

@TrulyGruly

So it's not a huge leap to assume if DSS came it would need to be during the school holidays which as everyone knows triples the price.

Hence why I said the dad should pay for his son whether it's term time or not.

I think it gets quite confusing for the OP when posters keep replying to each other 🙄

@aSofaNearYou

Maybe OP could say this to him about her stepson? No chance that would be acceptable though is there. She will be expected to embrace her DH's son, spend loads of time with him, holiday with him, etc etc. But she can't expect the same respect back from him when it comes to her own family.

So glad somebody else could see the hypocrisy there. Some parents really seem blind to the extensive level of effort they expect from their partners towards their side of the family through their step children. The lack of natural inclination to extend the same courtesy in return here would strick me as really self absorbed.

I think the standard response would be the usual 'package deal'/'knew what you were getting into' thing that always gets trotted out.

Somehow when there's a SM involved though, people will twist themselves into knots to insist that the NRP is a wonderful parent putting his child first and she's the problem. The NRP here hardly sees his child (a week in each of the school holidays). If an RP were posting about her ex only seeing his child 3 weeks of the year (maybe 6 if he's doing the half terms too), absolutely no one would he be insisting he's putting his child first (you'd think he'd travel to have weekend contact at least monthly - I certainly would drive 300 miles and stay in a cheap hotel to ensure I saw my child regularly, and I'd imagine most parents would. It'd be the sort of expense and time you prioritised). But here he's throwing his authority around to veto the OP and his other child going on a holiday with her family and loads of people are more sympathetic to him than to her.

Let's face it, it's very easy to pretend that you're putting your NR child first when you're only going to see him for one week out of the 6-7 week school summer holidays. Clearly it would be dreadful to miss that meagre contact, but the elephant in the room here is how little he actually sees his son. It's not much of a 'package deal' situation really.

@Bibidy

We don't know how much time OP's dp spends with his in laws? Maybe he sees them on a very regular basis and is very respectful of them?

I'm sure he is, but does that really change the situation? I don't feel like the issue is that he doesn't like OP's family and just doesn't want to go.

My DP sees my parents most weeks and gets on well with them, but if this scenario happened to us it would make things difficult and awkward for me, and would probably make my parents worry that they had upset my partner.

My point was more that most step-parents have to be way more involved and spend lots more intense time with their partner's children than anyone ever usually has to with their in-laws, so one week away with them without SS shouldn't really be a big ask from the DH here.

It probably isn't a huge ask in OP's case, we don't know, but due to how little her partner sees his Son I wouldn't blame him for wanting to prioritise seeing him over a holiday with his in laws. If he had a more normal contact schedule, I'd struggle to find any reason why the holiday shouldn't just go ahead with out the child, but it isn't such a normal schedule and I know if there was any chance it could mean I'd see less of my son I wouldn't go for it. Unless we hear the reasonings behind OP's partners annoyance with it, we'll just keep going round in circles guessing who's right and who's wrong.

[quote Bumblebee1980a]@TrulyGruly

So it's not a huge leap to assume if DSS came it would need to be during the school holidays which as everyone knows triples the price.

Hence why I said the dad should pay for his son whether it's term time or not.

I think it gets quite confusing for the OP when posters keep replying to each other 🙄[/quote]
It's a discussion board. Not a Q&A session with the OP.

Unless we hear the reasonings behind OP's partners annoyance with it, we'll just keep going round in circles guessing who's right and who's wrong.

You're really the only one going around in circles. Everybody else seems to agree that there's no reason to believe this has anything to do with disrupting contact.

@aSofaNearYou

Unless we hear the reasonings behind OP's partners annoyance with it, we'll just keep going round in circles guessing who's right and who's wrong.

You're really the only one going around in circles. Everybody else seems to agree that there's no reason to believe this has anything to do with disrupting contact.

Nah, you just can't cope with hearing that there's a possibility a NRP might actually care about all of their children.

Innocent until proven guilty.. apart from on the SP board when it just isn't possible that there could be a bit more to a story.