Page 3 | Holiday Advice - what's the right thing to do?

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farnworth · 19/05/2021 20:01

After the year we have all had.......
We have hopefully learnt that quality time with the extended family is so very important - presumably your parents have not had much chance to spend much time with your toddler. This holiday offer is their way of trying to get some of that quality time. They have generously offered to treat everyone - if they are happy to pay for somewhere in the school holidays and that week is one your DSS can make, then great. However if the school holidays are too expensive (and being realistic, even harder to find a holiday) and they want it out of school holidays, and it suits everyone else, then sadly that rules out your DSS going - but please don’t let it then rule you out. This is a wonderful chance for you and your toddler to spend time with your extended family - you never sadly know how often there will be these chances. Your DH can make a decision for himself about whether he attends

You can do special things with your DSS the week you then have him.

Tiredoftattler · 19/05/2021 21:18

I would imagine that given the fact that OP and her husband have a 2_year old child and the very little time that her husband sees his son that it is likely that he has spent more time or at least as much time with OP's family as with his son.

It may not be a objection to spending time with OP's family as much as not wanting to go on anything styled as a family vacation without both of his children.

The fact that many people would have no problem with this does not make him wrong for being among those who would be uncomfortable with this action. He is entitled to creating his own comfort zone in the parenting of his children.

What is very wrong is his thinking that he is entitled to impose his dictates on his wife. He has no right or authority to tell her when, where, how, or why she can go anywhere. That is beyond controlling behavior. It is unfortunate that the OP seems to not realize how inappropriate that behavior is as relates to another adult.

The OP's husband should thank his IL's in a gracious and appreciative manner and then proceed to act in accordance with his beliefs.

The OP and her son should go and have a great time. In that way ,no one is denied anything. The ILs were kind and generous, the husband was gracious and appreciative of their good intentions, the OP and her son go and have a fun time. The 2 year old won't miss his dad or even remember that he himself took the trip. OP and her husband learn that the world does not fall apart when they engage in separate activities, and they all live to plan other activities .

.

ihavenowords30 · 19/05/2021 21:23

Just go not everything has to include everyone especially when it's all your family who I'm guessing don't have bond with SS

aSofaNearYou · 19/05/2021 21:48

The OP and her son should go and have a great time. In that way ,no one is denied anything. The ILs were kind and generous, the husband was gracious and appreciative of their good intentions, the OP and her son go and have a fun time. The 2 year old won't miss his dad or even remember that he himself took the trip. OP and her husband learn that the world does not fall apart when they engage in separate activities, and they all live to plan other activities . .

Meanwhile, OP is still stuck with someone who calls her selfish and emotionally manipulates her when she receives an invitation that should constitute a moment of joy . He slowly saps the enjoyment out of her life with his negative attitude towards family events that don't include a child who he barely has to stay enough for anybody else to build the close bond with them that he sees as so cruel of them to be lacking.

Sometimes, people do need calling out on their bad attitude.

ALevelhelp · 19/05/2021 21:56

@aSofaNearYou

The OP and her son should go and have a great time. In that way ,no one is denied anything. The ILs were kind and generous, the husband was gracious and appreciative of their good intentions, the OP and her son go and have a fun time. The 2 year old won't miss his dad or even remember that he himself took the trip. OP and her husband learn that the world does not fall apart when they engage in separate activities, and they all live to plan other activities . .

Meanwhile, OP is still stuck with someone who calls her selfish and emotionally manipulates her when she receives an invitation that should constitute a moment of joy . He slowly saps the enjoyment out of her life with his negative attitude towards family events that don't include a child who he barely has to stay enough for anybody else to build the close bond with them that he sees as so cruel of them to be lacking.

Sometimes, people do need calling out on their bad attitude.

Where does it say he calls her selfish @aSofaNearYou ?

I don't think he should be stopping OP doing what she wants (he'd be a knob to even suggest that) but do we know the entire context of this? As I asked up the thread, will this holiday stop him seeing his son? Is this the only holiday of the year that they can afford (spending money etc) so he doesn't get to do one with both of his children if he does it with one?

It's lovely that OP's family have made this gesture, but OP's partner has 2 children, not one. Just because he doesn't see one that frequently doesn't mean they don't exist.

If all of that is irrelevant and OP's partner is being a dick about it, then I agree it's utterly unacceptable. But at the moment, as far as I can see is we have one side of a story.

aSofaNearYou · 19/05/2021 22:00

@ALevelhelp

OP mentioned that he accuses her of only caring about DS2 and forgetting about DSS. His attitude constitutes dickish behaviour in my opinion.

Aprilwasverywet · 19/05/2021 22:02

Is the mantra in general that dc2 misses out because dc1 isn't there for it..?

ALevelhelp · 19/05/2021 22:08

[quote aSofaNearYou]@ALevelhelp

OP mentioned that he accuses her of only caring about DS2 and forgetting about DSS. His attitude constitutes dickish behaviour in my opinion.[/quote]
Again though, we don't know why. It may be totally unacceptable but I wouldn't be happy if someone was suggesting something that meant I should miss one of my two children out. If someone did I would possibly feel like that person was only thinking about one child and not the other.

aSofaNearYou · 19/05/2021 22:14

Again though, we don't know why. It may be totally unacceptable but I wouldn't be happy if someone was suggesting something that meant I should miss one of my two children out. If someone did I would possibly feel like that person was only thinking about one child and not the other.

You're very focused on that. Yes it would be a different situation if OP was expecting him to come and miss contact with his child but that would be a drip feed and there's no sign that is the situation at all. In fact he said unless they can come up with a date his son can come on they cannot go, so logically they must be looking at times his son is not there, or he could come.

ALevelhelp · 19/05/2021 22:20

@aSofaNearYou

Again though, we don't know why. It may be totally unacceptable but I wouldn't be happy if someone was suggesting something that meant I should miss one of my two children out. If someone did I would possibly feel like that person was only thinking about one child and not the other.

You're very focused on that. Yes it would be a different situation if OP was expecting him to come and miss contact with his child but that would be a drip feed and there's no sign that is the situation at all. In fact he said unless they can come up with a date his son can come on they cannot go, so logically they must be looking at times his son is not there, or he could come.

There's no sign of any situation at all, either way really, but people immediately assume the worst of the partner. No one knows how the conversation went, the OP was pretty vague.

aSofaNearYou · 19/05/2021 22:27

@ALevelhelp But it was specific enough to rule out both of the excuses you gave for him. His tone and manner of expression could have varied from slightly miffed to really angry, but at the end of the day if he is accusing her of only thinking of her DC (in itself emotional manipulation) for not insisting her family rearrange their holiday to accommodate bringing his other kid then he is, to some degree, behaving like a dick.

timeforanother1 · 19/05/2021 22:31

Go on holiday with your 2 year old!
Dad can stay home if it's that much of an issue!

ALevelhelp · 19/05/2021 22:31

[quote aSofaNearYou]@ALevelhelp But it was specific enough to rule out both of the excuses you gave for him. His tone and manner of expression could have varied from slightly miffed to really angry, but at the end of the day if he is accusing her of only thinking of her DC (in itself emotional manipulation) for not insisting her family rearrange their holiday to accommodate bringing his other kid then he is, to some degree, behaving like a dick.[/quote]
I can't see anything specific enough, I'm not excusing his behaviour - I'm just not wanting to vilify him when we don't know the whole situation. The lovely offer could put him in a position that it's the only holiday they can afford - hence asking it to be a time they can take his DS too, we don't know.

aSofaNearYou · 19/05/2021 22:35

I can't see anything specific enough, I'm not excusing his behaviour - I'm just not wanting to vilify him when we don't know the whole situation. The lovely offer could put him in a position that it's the only holiday they can afford - hence asking it to be a time they can take his DS too, we don't know.

Surely that's just looking for drip feeds, though? The OP laid the situation out to us - he has said they cannot go if her family can't agree on a date that means his son can go. She hasn't mentioned anything about money, the implication is that that is the bottom line of his argument. By all means OP could offer more clarity but there is no reason to suspect money has anything to do with it.

ALevelhelp · 19/05/2021 22:41

@aSofaNearYou

I can't see anything specific enough, I'm not excusing his behaviour - I'm just not wanting to vilify him when we don't know the whole situation. The lovely offer could put him in a position that it's the only holiday they can afford - hence asking it to be a time they can take his DS too, we don't know.

Surely that's just looking for drip feeds, though? The OP laid the situation out to us - he has said they cannot go if her family can't agree on a date that means his son can go. She hasn't mentioned anything about money, the implication is that that is the bottom line of his argument. By all means OP could offer more clarity but there is no reason to suspect money has anything to do with it.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I don't think there's enough of anything to say what has caused the conversation- money or no money.

greenlynx · 19/05/2021 22:50

OP, is he using this as an excuse because he doesn’t want to go on holiday with your family when your parents are paying?

CoelacanthSharpener · 19/05/2021 23:06

I don't think your step son goes, it is is step grandparents paying for the holiday. Not all things are equal in a step set up.

This.

SandyY2K · 19/05/2021 23:08

Again though, we don't know why. It may be totally unacceptable but I wouldn't be happy if someone was suggesting something that meant I should miss one of my two children out. If someone did I would possibly feel like that person was only thinking about one child and not the other.

I think the fact that one child is not related to them (OPs parents) and doesn't live with their daughter, the OP makes all the difference.

I do find the expectation of equitable treatment in this kind of scenario is unrealistic.

I can't see anything specific enough, I'm not excusing his behaviour - I'm just not wanting to vilify him

Whilst I wouldn't go the extent of vilification...I do think he sounds controlling by saying none of them can go if it can't happen when SS is available.

The fact that he even said it, tells me something about the marriage as I previously said because my DH could never think for a moment he has control over me going away with my folks with our DC.

ALevelhelp · 19/05/2021 23:27

@SandyY2K

Again though, we don't know why. It may be totally unacceptable but I wouldn't be happy if someone was suggesting something that meant I should miss one of my two children out. If someone did I would possibly feel like that person was only thinking about one child and not the other.

I think the fact that one child is not related to them (OPs parents) and doesn't live with their daughter, the OP makes all the difference.

I do find the expectation of equitable treatment in this kind of scenario is unrealistic.

I can't see anything specific enough, I'm not excusing his behaviour - I'm just not wanting to vilify him

Whilst I wouldn't go the extent of vilification...I do think he sounds controlling by saying none of them can go if it can't happen when SS is available.

The fact that he even said it, tells me something about the marriage as I previously said because my DH could never think for a moment he has control over me going away with my folks with our DC.

sandy, with regards to the first point you make, I don't disagree. My point is, if the issue is something like finances (because we don't know it isn't) then I don't think the OP's partner is unreasonable for wanting their one holiday to include both of his children.

I don't think he's behaved appropriately at all, but we don't know exactly what was said, in which context. All we know is that a holiday was offered, OP's partner asked for it to include his DS (unknown reason), OP's partner unreasonably said if his son can't go, they don't go and that OP is only thinking of her child. We don't know what caused that feeling, it could be anything.

Two possible scenarios-

OP and her partner have a couple of holidays a year, including children , day trips the lot. See OPs SC every holiday , everything's lovely. The OP's family offer a lovely holiday and OP's partner is unreasonable for dictating it has to include his DS- this is for OP's family and he shouldn't expect his DS to be included.

Another scenario - OP and her partner have money to afford one holiday a year, this year her parents have suggested something expensive , that they'll pay for, but OP arranges the holiday money. This is expensive, meaning it's the only holiday they do this year. OP's partner doesn't want to miss having a holiday with both of his children this year, is he unreasonable for that? I don't think so?

It could be either of those, neither of those, or something in between. He could be an utter knob, or a Dad who's trying to be a Dad to two children , we just don't know.

SandyY2K · 20/05/2021 00:24

ALevelhelp

I think from the OP..there's only one scenario here. Her parents offered to take them on holiday and her DH is stomping his feet and saying none of them can go if it's not when SS can go.

You're speculating about the other scenarios, as that's not the information we've been given. We can make up a million other scenarios, but we're just talking about one holiday here.

ALevelhelp · 20/05/2021 00:27

@SandyY2K

ALevelhelp

I think from the OP..there's only one scenario here. Her parents offered to take them on holiday and her DH is stomping his feet and saying none of them can go if it's not when SS can go.

You're speculating about the other scenarios, as that's not the information we've been given. We can make up a million other scenarios, but we're just talking about one holiday here.

I'm merely doing exactly as much as you are.... speculating. No one knows apart from OP and her partner.

frazzledasarock · 20/05/2021 00:31

Agree on a date, you can suggest a date your SS is with you. But if your family decide on a date your SS is not with you then I’d still go with my SC.

Your H can either go with you or stay home. I wouldn’t force him either way.

I really hate this ridiculous rhetoric on MN whereby SP are not allowed to do anything unless they have SC with them.

Your SS will have opportunities in future if this one isn’t doable and he will have opportunities to go with his mum. Even if the latter isn’t true, I still wouldn’t purposely bow out. It’s your family you’ll be spending time with. I’d go regardless.

frazzledasarock · 20/05/2021 00:31

I’d go with my own DC that should read

Tiredoftattler · 20/05/2021 00:33

What if the OP's husband were to say " it was nice of your parents to offer but I just do not enjoy spending time with them. You and son go along with them and have a nice time.?

Would so many people be calling him a "knob" or " dick"? The net effect would be the same;for whatever the reason the husband would not be going on the trip.

I am having trouble grasping why people think it objectionable for the wife and child to go on the trip without the father. We have no evidence that the father does not spend quality time with the toddler. Why is it essential or necessary that he take part in this particular trip?

What he should not be doing is preventing the OP and the toddler from going on the trip. I fail to see how he is emotionally abusing his wife by stating his perception of her thoughts and feelings about his older child if indeed that is his honest belief.

Saying that the OP only thinks of her child may or may not be true, but it may be what he thinks. Stating your belief about a situation is in no way abusive; it is a way to start an honest dialogue.

I am not defending the OP's husband's behavior because I think that as presented it sounds controlling, but he does have a right to his own parenting perspective.

Many of the people criticizing the husband would likely not be overly thrilled about a holiday with their ILs. Perhaps the husband shares that sentiment and is just too polite to state that as his reason.

The long and the short of it is that there is nothing stopping the OP and her child from going on this trip.

SandyY2K · 20/05/2021 02:24

I'm merely doing exactly as much as you are.... speculating. No one knows apart from OP and her partner

Actually, I'm going on the information provided and taking it at face value. I'm not speculating.

My parents are offering to pay for a trip away for us all together (my parents, my brother's family and our family) and have asked when we can go. My husband has said that unless everyone can agree on a date that means his son (my step-son) can come too, then we aren't going as it isnt fair that he misses out.

I'd say it's very clear.

Parents offered to pay for OP and her family to go on holiday and asked when they can go.

He's gone on to say that unless everyone can agree a date that his son can make OP, him or DS2 cannot go.