Stay at home dad... who pays CMS??!?

[Britsmums11]

We are in a predicament. Childcare costs are out of control and we literally lose an entire wage on childcare and more . I am the higher earner and we can survive off my wages and at least DD aged 18months isn't passed from pillar to post and can have some stability . My husband thinks being a SAHD is the best option. But then do I have to pay for his son? If CMS do the calculation on my wages we'd be hand to mouth. Husband seems to think that's not the case .... but is it ?

@AlexaRain surely this whole thread is just opinion? And I'm certainly not bitter. Pleased to have left the mill stone round my neck far behind. It doesn't mean I enable my ex to shirk his responsibilities.

Of course that would mean he got no quality time with his wife
But that’s life. You find a balance. He would still have a number of evenings with her and some of the weekend. Better than a decision that could potentially see his eldest no longer wanting anything to do with him.

@vivainsomnia

He’s built a good relationship with his son, that’s great. Does he really believes this will continue when he stops paying, his mum potentially has to say he can have this or that, or go on holiday or do the activity he used to because his dad has stopped playing to be a ft dad to his sister and that his SM who could afford to pay it on behalf of his dad won’t because she believes that his mum spends it on herself instead...but if he comes to live with them, travel for one hour each day to go to school half of the time, or change school where he knows no one, they’ll pay for him.

Most 11 years old are intelligent enough to understand the emotional implication of this decision, to feel hurt, rejected, low in their priority and upset for the stress it’s I’ll put his mum under. He can expect to his son wanting nothing to do with you all of not right away, soon enough. He would have only himself to blame for it.

Any parent who shares their adult disagreement with the other parent directly with their child, like you describe is harming their child's self-worth. Regardless of whether one parent is being a dick with money or not, these are not appropriate to then share with the child. There is absolutely nothing good to come out of it.

If a parent can't afford something for their child because the other parent won't pay, then the right, healthy and adult response is "unfortunately we cannot afford that at this time. I will discuss with NRP if we can do something in the future but we may have to think of do/get else we can afford"

The drama between the adults is for them to filter out of their child's emotional life. I agree that the first child will already have complex feelings about the new baby. Loading on more unbearable feelings is totally unacceptable, regardless of whether the RP is completely in the right or not.

[quote dattenboroughiskingoftheworld]@AlexaRain surely this whole thread is just opinion? And I'm certainly not bitter. Pleased to have left the mill stone round my neck far behind. It doesn't mean I enable my ex to shirk his responsibilities. [/quote]
It isn't about you enabling. Your ex is a free agent. If your ex gave up work, you wouldn't be entitled to any money from your ex. You don't get a say in your ex's decision to give up work / move to a lower paying job.

@Britsmums11

I don't think the ex has much choice to be honest its 50:50 or no payments. So the choice is hers ultimately

So you want to disrupt a child's life, force 50/50 on him, just so you and your partner don't have to pay CMS?

At any point have you actually thought about your DSS? Or are you so blinkered by your own family unit that nothing else matters?

Seriously OP you need to wake up and stop being so selfish. You only 'want' 50/50 so you can avoid paying CMS. You don't want your DSS there all of that time. Put yourself in his shoes for just one minute. He's a child. And you're using him as a pawn in your own self indulgent games.

I'd be devastated if my children ended up with a step parent like you.

I'm equally as puzzled about the use of CM money argument.

We're lucky enough that the pittance that DS's Dad gives (if he actually remembers) isn't needed at all, for living expenses or treats. So that money sits in an account and is being saved for DS's impending Uni expenses.

Would I look badly on someone who isn't in the position to be able to afford to pay living and treat expenses out of their own wage, so has to use CM for some of that? Of course not! How ridiculous. It shouldn't matter which pot that money comes from. Most single parents I know have all money go into the same account, should they be divvying it up to show that CM isn't going on something not essential for the child?

I actually think it's a good idea to keep the money separate if you can, you don't become reliant on it. It took 11 years to finally get DS's Dad to pay regularly, I can't rely on him, so I won't rely on his money coming in.

This thread is crazy...I actually cannot believe the OP thinks the way she does. It makes me so sad for her SS :(

To be honest this is the bit I didn't understand originally but then I re read it and it made sense. You spend more than he pays you so it's like he is paying you back for his maintenance in gin etc which you could have bought with your own money.

Well yes but I'm not some gin crazed woman. I like the occasional vodka also

I jest but yes, it's basically that wherever that money goes the equivalent and more has already gone on DD over the last 10 years and will continue to go on her over until she is financially independent.

I've lived on the breadline where I had to make sacrifices and choices to have her needs adequately met and that was at a time I received no maintenance at all. I've had days where I had unexpected costs and have gone without food, in order to pay my electricity bill etc etc.

It's not a nice place to be but there was no uproar from me about him working cash in hand a living a pretty decent life. I accepted my lot and got on with it. I'm now in a much better financial position and very grateful for that and now he does pay maintenance I'm not going to fawn over the fact he contributes. I've continued my life the way it was and have that little extra to enjoy now.

I think it's all really down to money managment, that's how I manage mine because it works for us. My husband and I share all finances and I would have no issue with him using that money if needed but he wouldn't ever because he looks at that as mine. He would pay for shoes for example out of our joint account and wouldn't dream of transferring money over to cover it.

@AlexaRain you are right I can't stop him making irresponsible decisions but I sure as hell can judge him if he did!

@lyland I hope I didn't offend, I was using "gin" as lazy shorthand for extras like holidays and clothes and just anything more than the basics really.

No not at all. I was joking

[quote LaceyBetty]@TrustTheGeneGenie yes, what are you saying? I agree with lyland - bizarre. [/quote]
I agree too. That poster has explained that all money goes into the one pot and sometimes there is enough money to treat the whole family.
Stop trying to pick that apart, it's the way most people live.

I've not read the whole thread but to me 50/50 only works if the mother agrees to it. Given than she's already said no in the past, it's probably not a viable option - I don't personally consider it fair to expect a mother to give up time with her child because the father has had a new baby that he cannot really afford. I know the case can be made that children have a right to see both parents equally but often there is a parent who tends to take on the majority of the looking after and it's disruptive to upset that arrangement. I also think a step parent shouldn't push for it unless they too would be totally fine with only having their own baby 50% of the time. With the OPs 'tunnel vision' re her own child, I suspect not!
I'm not convinced that 50/50 arrangements are best for children unless both parents live in close proximity to each other, can each do the school run easily, both have houses big enough to provide a bedroom for the child and are willing/able to properly share the costs.
50/50 is one of those ideas that sounds good in theory but is tricky in reality.
OP do you have the room to house dss? Is there enough money to buy clothes and pay for hobbies/school trips/lunch money?
I think you'll probably find that £250 is less than you'll spend if you have dss 50/50.

I actually think it's a good idea to keep the money separate if you can, you don't become reliant on it. It took 11 years to finally get DS's Dad to pay regularly, I can't rely on him, so I won't rely on his money coming in.

It’s totally sensible for so many reasons. The unreliability of it is the main one, but it’s also a good idea on the basis that it’s not always going to be coming in. Lots of NRP’s stop paying the second they can, which is not the same as when the child becomes financially independent so a good idea - where possible obviously - to always have the basic living expenses coming off your own money and any maintenance paying for nice to haves as you don’t know when it’s going to stop or change (mine changed as he had more and more kids with his nee partners).

@Britsmums11

It's appalling that you think your updates in any way contribute to the discussion or reasoning behind what you are proposing.

Quite clearly your narrative is to paint DSS mother in a bad light.

It doesn't matter at all about the circumstances of the child's birth. What matters is how he is supported.

You seem solely interested in whether you have to pay the CM. Once that's resolved there's not one whiff of interest in the child's well-being or any mention of your DH role in this.

It seems clear that 50:50 wouldn't work in this case, but you know that. It's only a sop so that when the mother says no, you can both shrug you leave shoulders and say, oh well.

It appalls me that people like you, with your views & disinterest towards a child exist.

[quote dattenboroughiskingoftheworld]@AlexaRain you are right I can't stop him making irresponsible decisions but I sure as hell can judge him if he did![/quote]
Your judgement is irrelevant though. Do you think he cares that you judge him? Sorry but you are absolutely powerless when it comes to your ex husband / partner choosing to leave paid employment and no longer pay child maintenance.

I think a lot of the bitterness that comes from the ex wives / partners on these threads is because they realise that they have absolutely no say in the decisions that their ex husbands / partners go on to make.

I think a lot of the bitterness that comes from the ex wives / partners on these threads is because they realise that they have absolutely no say in the decisions that their ex husbands / partners go on to make.

You're right in this, but if ex partners/husbands decide not to pay for or prioritise their children, it sure as hell will affect their relationship with those children.

This is the reality that useless fathers can't avoid...some day their children will realise what a complete waste of spare they are and decide not to bother with them.

@Britsmums11

Okay I will give some back story to this as I'm being completely slated here by some. My husband and the ex were a fling so to speak or a one night stand when he was much younger , before he me me. Fast forward 5 years and we have just started living together and he gets a long Facebook message from the ex saying he's a dad to her 4 year old son. There were never friends on Facebook so took a few months for him to pick up the message. At first he thought it was a joke. But I had a feeling there was some truth to it. Anyway he did the DNA ( any responsible person would ) and he was the dad. He had no idea, the ex said she didn't tell him as lost contact blah blah and she said she sent him a text , but my husband stares that text never existed, as you can imaginehe was angry and upset. He immediately started to build a relationship with DSS and pay ( ex wanted that set up right away). DSD is now 11 and they have built a great bond over the years. But he missed out on alot of years. He is now experiencing having a baby and yes ,he feels guilty that he missed out with DSS and so definitely doesn't want to miss out with DD. Hence why when we did the sums he wanted to be a SAHD and suggested 50:50 for DSS and look after DD full time. I hope that explains it, that is his perspective and I get it. We have gone through alot but it has made us stronger we are a team and I was especially focused on DD having more time at home.

Right. So dss is 11, at secondary school, settled and comfortable with his mum. At that age, his opinion would be very much taken into account if it went to court.

Does he WANT to spend 50% of his time at dad's or not,

Because that is the single most important factor in this equation tbh. You haven't answered that @Britsmums11

I’m interested too in whether the son would want this, op it’s great that your H has built up a good relationship with his son, given that he had to get to know him from an older age and it must have been a shock for both of them. From what you see and know of their dynamic, how do you think DS will feel about 50/50?

I'm baffled how bitterness gets confused with being pretty disgusted with someone lack of morals.

I'm certainly not bitter. I actually have a lovely life and I'm very happy. Do I hate my ex? No. Do I really dislike him? Yes, and that's ok because he isn't a very likeable person. I don't see morally bakrupt as an endearing quality in anyone.

I don't wish him ill, I do enjoy spending a bit of the money he is forced to send supporting a charity he would detest. Would I ever share that information with him? Absolutely not, that's just for me.

I've had to explain to my DD that her Dad said no when she asked if she could meet him as she was curious. He was alot older than me and fast approaching 50 and I will say this, he will die a lonely old man if liver cirrhosis allows him to live into old age which at this point is doubtful. I'm not bitter, I pitty him.

Pity*

At that age, his opinion would be very much taken into account if it went to court.

If it went to court then the ex wouldn't get any CMS if the father has no income. I'm not aware of any situations where the OP's income would be taken into account, are you?

The threat of court doesn't work in this situation.

@Dugee

At that age, his opinion would be very much taken into account if it went to court.

If it went to court then the ex wouldn't get any CMS if the father has no income. I'm not aware of any situations where the OP's income would be taken into account, are you?

The threat of court doesn't work in this situation.

I could be wrong, but I read that more as a 11 year old would be regarded to have a say ie as they would if they were heard in court. Could be wrong on that though!

Actually no, reread it and you're right it does sound like the suggestion is it could go to court