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Furious with MN

28 replies

Magda72 · 14/01/2021 17:48

Honestly - I cannot believe they removed your last thread @KumquatSalad!!! The hypocrisy of them allowing unmitigated stepparenting bashing on a STEPPARENTING board & then removing a humorous thread calling out those attitudes is unreal.
Shame on you @FionaMumsnet

OP posts:
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Youseethethingis · 14/01/2021 17:54

Fully agree. If it’s not ok to counter it on one thread then it’s not ok to allow those comments in the first place on any board on MN.

Witchymclovely · 14/01/2021 17:56

I always enjoy the comedy element of MN. Some of you may have noticed my sarcasm Blush but i feel we need the laughs. I like to take the piss out of my fellow SMs and point out the sheer hypocrisy of some blended families. I enjoyed KumquatSalads thread very much.

MyCatHatesEverybody · 14/01/2021 18:23

I know MN's response will be the usual "report any offending posts."

The point they're missing is that it's rarely specific posts that contribute to kicking someone when they're down but the general hostile undertone e.g. "you knew what you were getting into" or "were you the OW."

I've previously tried joining a couple of other internet forums but found they went way too far the other way, things like referring to DSC as "skids" etc which does not sit well with me at all. IMO they're the minority to give the majority a bad name.

I come to this forum on MN because on the whole, I think the SMs posting here are reasonable people giving good insights and advice. Of course anyone else is free to express an opinion but when this place is circled by a small group of posters with the specific aim of jumping on to projecting their own issues and judgements onto people asking for help it's really fucking unhelpful.

wixked · 14/01/2021 18:34

That was bullshit. It was in the spirit of the site for those things to be said but not quoted?

KumquatSalad · 14/01/2021 19:58

Thanks all.

I’m not surprised tbh.

Apart from anything else, all the people complaining and calling me nasty (guilty as charged!) were entirely missing the point.

Absolutely none of it is about the stepchildren. It’s all about the attitudes towards SMs. The cards were basically for the rest of MN to send to evil SMs like me.

I actually fully agree that a thread mocking the kind of things that are regularly and directly said to SMs - often women in crappy situations where they’re already scapegoated - is not in the spirit of MN. Because the spirit of MN is absolutely to kick a SM when they’re down.

It counts as ‘debate’ to tell a SM that she knew what she was getting into. Or to tell her that she is awful for thinking she should have any say in her own life - or that of her children. But make a silly greetings card displaying those sentiments - and direct it at your own subgroup within MN - and it’s beyond the pale.

I can only conclude that the oft cited spirit of MN is one that thinks it’s totally fine to tell a woman to put up, shut up, and stop expecting anything more so long as she’s married to a man with children from a previous relationship.

And I suspect none of it plays well with the advertisers either.

SpongebobNoPants · 14/01/2021 20:04

Which thread was deleted??

SpongebobNoPants · 14/01/2021 20:05

@KumquatSalad those cards were fucking hilarious!

KumquatSalad · 14/01/2021 20:06

Also I agree with you that other forums go too far the other way. I wouldn’t call my SC skids. I’d call them little horrors (but I’d refer to my kids as that).

Because actually I don’t think the issue is usually the SC at all. Certainly, not because of anything intrinsically awful about them. I think that it’s easy to focus on the SC when actually much of it is about the attitudes and behaviours of the other adults around those children (which can produce dreadful attitudes and behaviours in the children).

I guess though it makes many people uncomfortable to look at the parents and see them as the problem. It’s much better to villify the stepmother and cry ‘won’t anyone think of the children?’

Let’s tell women that they knew what they were getting into. But entirely excuse the fact that their husbands are treating them poorly. And allowing others to do so too.

KumquatSalad · 14/01/2021 20:07

@SpongebobNoPants

Which thread was deleted??
I made an evil stepmother’s greetings card collection thread.

The word nasty featured a great deal in the responses.

Vellinbracelet · 14/01/2021 20:17

You are still wrong.
There are terrible parents and terrible step parents.
Who suffers most?

Youseethethingis · 14/01/2021 20:25

@Vellinbracelet
Children being screwed up by shitty parenting has no bearing on whether or not a step mother should be allowed to reach out for support without being attacked with “you knew what you were getting in to” etc. That’s the point of this thread.
You are wrong.

KumquatSalad · 14/01/2021 20:26

@Vellinbracelet

You are still wrong. There are terrible parents and terrible step parents. Who suffers most?
It’s not about who suffers most.

Because if we’re going to play that game, then a SK who is only being taken on one holiday a year when their half sibling might get 2 is not the saddest story I can think of.

If I’m wrong for actually thinking the SMs might matter too, or that it’s their parents responsibility (and usually their fault), then I think I’d rather be wrong.

Vellinbracelet · 14/01/2021 20:36

Sorry if I misunderstood but I thought the cards were aimed at step parents. Having been a step mother for 35 years it's so difficult being criticised constantly even though my dgs is the best person in my world.

From the cards I saw it just looked like another attack.

FionaMumsnet · 14/01/2021 20:40

Sorry all - genuine error, didn't quite pick up that it was meant to be a joke! Have reinstated the thread now.

MyCatHatesEverybody · 14/01/2021 21:04

@Vellinbracelet it was all firmly tongue in cheek to highlight the lack of support step parents, step mothers especially, receive on this board.

You know the drill:

Q - "DP's ex is doing [insert unjustifiably awful behaviour here] and it's affecting our whole household, what can we do?"

A -
"Were you the other woman?"
"I'd be interested to hear her side of the story"
"It's none of your business"
"Does your DP pay CMS? Oh it's £600pm? That's still only the bare minimum, what an arsehole."
"You knew what you were getting into."
"His children always come first even if it's their wants vs your needs"
"If they were your children..."

Repeat ad nauseum. Funnily all the kind of stuff that anyone with first hand experience of being a step parent doesn't ask because they know how utterly irrelevant it is to the situation being posted.

When someone posts on the Relationships board that they're being treated badly by their partner no one asks if the relationship started as an affair, what are they doing to provoke their partner, they should always expect to put the needs of their partner ahead of their own etc etc. It's crap.

KumquatSalad · 14/01/2021 22:54

@Vellinbracelet

Sorry if I misunderstood but I thought the cards were aimed at step parents. Having been a step mother for 35 years it's so difficult being criticised constantly even though my dgs is the best person in my world. From the cards I saw it just looked like another attack.
Oh. It’s definitely gallows humour.

And an attempt to laugh at (and show the absurdity of) the actual things people say - with alarming regularity - to SMs looking for some support in what are often hugely challenging circumstances.

It’s basically the worlds worst hallmark messages, as delivered in all seriousness and almost as standard on MN.

I (and my fellow wicked SMs) know that the vast majority of SMs are lovely women who, despite hostility from all sorts of places, do want their stepchildren to be happy. They just want to be happy too, and not always places right at the bottom of the heap.

I also know that the quality of a woman’s relationships with her stepchildren is very often little to do with her. It’s about the behaviours and attitudes of the adults around her, and how these influence her DSC.

Genuinely I do care about how struggling SMs are treated on MN. I’d hope by making the unhelpful and hostile attitudes that repeat again and again on threads more visible - and mockable - we might start to get people to think before they jump in to kick a SM while she’s down.

harryclr · 14/01/2021 23:01

Hear hear @KumquatSalad !

dontdisturbmenow · 15/01/2021 10:49

I think all three statements are pathetic.

The common 'you knew what you were getting into' is common. The only time it applies is when indeed, the outcome was highly predictable, ie. having an affair with a man who has 5 kids under 5 kind of scenario, which doesn't really happen here.

What does happen though is families that blend much too quickly in much less than perfect conditions and then moan that things go pear shape. It's not case of you knew what you were getting into but you should have taken the time to ensure issues were sorted before going ahead with moving together and having more kids.

On the opposite side of what I deem pointless saying that we get over and over is 'stop peojecting'. Of course we project, how else do we express our feelings based in our own experience of the topic matter. We indeed ALL project the same way.

Because actually I don’t think the issue is usually the SC at all. Certainly, not because of anything intrinsically awful about them. I think that it’s easy to focus on the SC when actually much of it is about the attitudes and behaviours of the other adults around those children (which can produce dreadful attitudes and behaviours in the children)

dontdisturbmenow · 15/01/2021 10:51

Meant to say that the last quote is very humbling. I agree totally. It is sad when there are issues with kids, it is systematically assumed that it is the sole fault of just one adult. Either all the fault of the mother, or all the fault of the father or SM.

In reality, it's much more the dynamics between the adults that is the problem and all contribute to it, yet the lack of self reflection and the blaming culture in these instances is staggering.

RainbowCarpetSurfing · 15/01/2021 11:13

Genuinely I do care about how struggling SMs are treated on MN. I’d hope by making the unhelpful and hostile attitudes that repeat again and again on threads more visible - and mockable - we might start to get people to think before they jump in to kick a SM while she’s down

Here here.

I started a thread in AIBU last night because I felt I should get an apology from DSS for screaming in my face.

This comes after years of inconsistent parenting on part of DH and disparity among DSC and my bio DC as a result of that.

I have been called pathetic, cruel, immature, ridiculous and told to get a grip. Pages and pages of personal attacks on me.

I welcome anybody here to have a read. It acts as a clear example of the shit treatment we SP's get on mumsnet.

MyCatHatesEverybody · 15/01/2021 12:28

@dontdisturbmenow while I appreciate that everyone is going to project, that projection very often takes the form of an attack which is something that seems to be unique to the Step Parenting board (it might happen elsewhere such as Lone Parents - I'm not a lone parent so I don't read that board let alone go there to tell them the're all evil contact blockers or whatever nonsense).

So e.g. on Relationships you'll get the "He MUST be cheating" "LTB!" "all men are useless" type projections which whilst not often helpful, aren;t personal to the OP. Plus nearly all of the posters will at least have some first hand experience of relationships themselves.

On Step Parenting not only are the cliches being trotted out unhelpful, they're from people who have zero experience of being a step parent berating an OP for not doing XYZ because they're sure that's how they'd behave in that situation. Or throwing every conceivable scenario at the OP to try and uncover examples in which she MUST have acted badly to warrant whatever issues she's facing off her DP or his ex (were you the OW is a classic example). When you're feeling vulnerable and posting from a bad place, often after many months or even years of being ground down, that little bit of nastiness, even if only from strangers on a forum, can be hugely damaging.

Tiredoftattler · 15/01/2021 12:36

Someone saying " you knew what you were getting bingo" is just that person expressing their own particular opinion. " On an open forum , you have to assume that their are going to be different opinions and different points of view.

I am always mystified by strangers who respond " you deserve better. " We know virtually nothing about anyone who posts other than the few details that they choose to provide, and we absolutely nothing about their character enough to say what they do or dot deserve. The " you deserve better " statements are viewed as supportive and yet they are in no way an accurate assessment of a situation.

There is no universal step parenting point of view. Some step parents are very satisfied in their relationships ; others experience varying degrees of satisfaction. All may have issues or situations for which they seek occasional input. The same statements can be said about parents in intact first families.

It is not very wise to go seeking input from strangers and then to become dissatisfied with the input that they provide particularly when you are neither paying for the input nor compelled to accept or follow the input or advice.

You can just disregard that input that you find lacking and benefit from that which you find helpful.

We are all free to state our issues in the manner of our choosing ; so too should those providing input be free to state their beliefs and points of view. Absent any vile or offensive language , Why should any point of view be restricted simply because it is not the point of view with which the OP happens to agree?

Everyone who enters into a relationship with existing children, knows or should know that it is not the same as a relationship where there are no children involved. You may not know in advance how those differences will manifest or how you will feel about those differences when they do manifest, but you do know that you are entering a relationship that has the potential for varied complications.

Why is it so difficult to accept what you view as helpful and to ignore the rest? You have not lost any money or invested any real time in this free and open advice or input forum.

OnceUponAThread · 15/01/2021 13:10

@Tiredoftattler

Someone saying " you knew what you were getting bingo" is just that person expressing their own particular opinion. " On an open forum , you have to assume that their are going to be different opinions and different points of view.

I am always mystified by strangers who respond " you deserve better. " We know virtually nothing about anyone who posts other than the few details that they choose to provide, and we absolutely nothing about their character enough to say what they do or dot deserve. The " you deserve better " statements are viewed as supportive and yet they are in no way an accurate assessment of a situation.

There is no universal step parenting point of view. Some step parents are very satisfied in their relationships ; others experience varying degrees of satisfaction. All may have issues or situations for which they seek occasional input. The same statements can be said about parents in intact first families.

It is not very wise to go seeking input from strangers and then to become dissatisfied with the input that they provide particularly when you are neither paying for the input nor compelled to accept or follow the input or advice.

You can just disregard that input that you find lacking and benefit from that which you find helpful.

We are all free to state our issues in the manner of our choosing ; so too should those providing input be free to state their beliefs and points of view. Absent any vile or offensive language , Why should any point of view be restricted simply because it is not the point of view with which the OP happens to agree?

Everyone who enters into a relationship with existing children, knows or should know that it is not the same as a relationship where there are no children involved. You may not know in advance how those differences will manifest or how you will feel about those differences when they do manifest, but you do know that you are entering a relationship that has the potential for varied complications.

Why is it so difficult to accept what you view as helpful and to ignore the rest? You have not lost any money or invested any real time in this free and open advice or input forum.

@Tiredoftattler because the people saying "you know what you were getting into" are being thoroughly unhelpful and are surrounded by other people being nasty and aggressive.

And even your example is nonsense. When someone on the patenting board asks for advice about being at her wits' end after nights of sleeplessness with a newborn, we don't all pile in saying: "you chose to have a child, what did you expect?".

If someone discusses behavioural issues or food issues or childcare issue or partner issues with a biological children no one says: "what did you think would happen when you gave birth?"

So why is it when any stepmother asks for ANY help with any parenting someone is along to say: 'you married a man with children, what did you expect?'. And how is that remotely helpful to solving the issue?

Other awful comments / questions:

  • Were you the OW? - unless the help asked for specifically pertains to either the relationship with SCs mum or behavioural issues if SCs are aware - it's irrelevant.
  • of course your husband has to put his children first. - steady on, do you always give your kids what they want, when they want, regardless of whether it's good for them or you? No. So why are you giving that advice to stepmothers?
  • you're not married so you're not a step-parent. Often the woman has been with the partner and in the kids' life for YEARS. Belittling and irrelevant and absolute nonsense.
  • it's none of your business stay out of it (when you are involved) or you need to love the SCs as if they are your own and do everything for them (if there is some distance). - Well which is it? Often the same posters veering from one of these criticisms to the other depending on the circs so that a stepmother is ALWAYS wrong no matter what.

(In reality of course it is a balance and what OP's often need is advice about how to find that balance rather than being told to either butt out entirely or dedicate their lives to SC's)

Honestly, reading responses on SM threads you'd think that most MN posters want stepchildren to be as miserable as possible at Stepmum's and vice versa. (There are some obvious reasons why this might be true).

The evil stepmother bashing is disheartening and actively prevents people from seeking help to successfully look after their step kids and build happier lives all round.

Am FIRMLY convinced that if all stepmums just posted as if they were the mother in situations they would get actually helpful constructive advice instead of nonstop aggression, condescension and personal attacks.

Indeed if you look at similar situations posted in step parenting and parenting boards you can see this is the case.

Youseethethingis · 15/01/2021 13:15

We know virtually nothing about anyone who posts other than the few details that they choose to provide, and we absolutely nothing about their character enough to say what they do or dot deserve
Most human beings can recognise that most other human beings generally don’t deserve to be treated badly by people who are supposed to love them Hmm
You can defend all the nasty little snipes and comments all you like, it doesn’t change the fact that what’s deemed acceptable on the Step parenting board would not fly on other boards.
“You knew what you weeds getting into when you got married, shoddily have know he might gamble your pension away one day”
“You knew what yoga were getting into, should have known your baby wouldn’t sleep for two years, you sound resentful, you should just leave”
Etc etc etc

Doffodils · 15/01/2021 13:18

Yes, I was going to say I don't think MN "got" it but clearly they weren't the only ones.