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This is never going to end. Having to consider leaving boyfriend to protect my children from his ex.

114 replies

ThisMustBeMyDream · 05/11/2020 22:02

There is so much back story.

This thread gives a sense of the issues if you want more background www.mumsnet.com/Talk/stepparenting/3549889-There-goes-our-easter-holiday.

Yesterday accusations were made against my children. My biggest fear came true. I have spent over 3 years of my relationship terrified of this moment. I knew that mum was capable, but hoped that time would help allay whatever was going on in her head.

Now I'm having to consider if I can continue in my relationship because I don't think my children can have any more contact with partners child.

My partner had a phone call Tuesday from social care. Mother made an allegation against one of my children, of which I'm sure you can guess the nature. Luckily for me and my partner, I have never allowed the children to be alone together. They are always supervised when here (we still don't permanently live together - he maintains a separate property) because I needed to protect my children. We both know the allegation to be untrue because the children are not left alone (which is exhausting, but I felt necessary until the mother was more reasonable - which I had hoped time would bring).

I had a social worker visit yesterday, who concluded that she had no concerns that anything had happened. She spoke to the children. She was very nice and reassuring. All well on my front. Her investigation will be completed within 3 weeks, other than a safety talk to my children so they can tick a box there is no further follow up. Report will state children are safeguarded by each parent, no concerns.

Child has been medically examined. No concerns there either.

The child is 3 (almost 4). They have repeated an allegation to the social worker - but we don't have the full story still. Social care is in two authorities. My authority told me one version, the childs authority told another version. Childs authority was asked today to confirm allegation, but they said they weren't sure yet and they were still trying to find out what it was from the child Hmm.

Partner was told he can still maintain his contact, but until my authority send their report, child should not come here. Fine by us both. Social worker reports back to mum, no concerns, dad to maintain contact in his property until report is through.

Of course, mum refused. Said no contact at all. Made further allegation that child is now saying daddy tells her not to tell mummy things (again, untrue).

It is exhausting. This mother will not rest until she has what she wants. She plays a long game. She bides her time. This is a child who is not quite 4. This will be the 4th application to court (2nd enforcement, 2 previous child arrangement applications). Me and my children are now being made in to her collateral damage.

I can not tell you how angry I am that she stooped this low. I knew it was possible, but did not believe she would go this far to try and stop contact.

If this had not affected my children, I would be able to tolerate the situation. But now my children have been targeted, I don't think our relationship is tenable. I can step back, we have our own property. The children can be kept separate. But, I just don't think that is a life I want to lead. It is incredibly painful to find myself here. I know couples do do this when children are involved. But for us, it doesn't feel right.

I can't see a way through this. My children will suffer both ways. Obviously they could suffer more if further accusations were made. But should we go our separate ways, my children will have the only male role model in their lives taken away. He enriches their lives incredibly. He has been there for them for 3 years. They are only 7 and 5. They don't remember life before him. He has enabled them to take part in extra curricular activities (I couldn't do it without his support), he has enabled me to change my job to be there for them more by providing childcare at unsocial hours, he has taught them through lockdown and beyond (he is a primary teacher). He is a father figure to them when their own father did not want to be. Even my oldest child (18) has had his life improved by my partner being present and thinks highly of him, despite the teenage years being one of the most difficult times to consider blending a family. Had he not reacted well to him, then we wouldn't be here over 3 years later as again, my children are my priority.

I feel sick. I will always put my children first. But this feels so incredibly wrong. All my children are going to suffer either way now, to varying degrees.

I guess I don't really need advice. Just understanding and a little moral support. I'm just so bloody angry.

OP posts:
sixpencenonethepoorer · 08/11/2020 22:44

This is tough OP. But just remember there is no one size fits all with blended families. I think we often try to recreate a nuclear family situation but it just doesn't work. Too many variables / different styles of parenting. When you're trying to work with your own style and your partners, but also factor in 2 other parents as well, it's so tricky!

Whatever format you decide will work is fine. In this instance it seems that maybe the relationship is separate from the children. At least for now.

isolationhelp · 09/11/2020 22:26

If I was your partner I would end contact with the daughter, what happens when the mum makes allegations against him next!?

MorningNinja · 10/11/2020 10:49

I'll probably get flamed for this opinion but if I was him I'd walk away from his DD. She's 4 now and this type of stuff will dictate the path of his life, not allow him to build loving relationships with others and also have a deeply negative effect on his DD for the hoops her DM is making her jump through.

I'm so sorry you are all going through this OP...some women are just something else.

tigertreats · 10/11/2020 11:17

This is so so awful. I'm so saddened to hear what a lovely role model he has been for your children so I appreciate whatever you do it won't be ideal. It's a disgrace that this is happening.
Would your children be impacted by losing him from their lives?
Perhaps take a break and stay in touch but allow him to work through these issues at a safe distance ?
I get the dilemma - it's sad for your kids to lose a great person from their lives but at the same time they cannot be put in danger.
He sounds like a lovely man so I'm sure he'd understand the need to take a break until you sort out how you move forward - for sure as some other posters have suggested he needs to challenge the child's mother's allegations - poor kid shouldn't be dealing with this.
I hope you find a good path through - remember listen to your instinct (which I think you are) and if it feels wrong it probably is xxx

Tiredoftattler · 10/11/2020 12:22

To Morning Ninja:
Would you walk away from your child/children because a parenting situation became challenging or difficult? These difficult exs were not so difficult that the partners could not tolerate a voluntary sexual relationship with them but now not cannot tolerate the challenge of post sexual child management with these same people. Their tolerance level seems pretty self serving.

Having created a life makes for a whole new level of obligation and responsibility.

It says to the children involved, your parent was certainly and often acceptable as a sexual/relationship partner when I found it acceptable/convenient/desirous, but when it is no longer easy for me, I am willing to step away from you.

Is that the message that a loving parent wants to send?

Magda72 · 10/11/2020 13:19

@Tiredoftattler - no disrespect but your last post is naive. Luckily for you you have no clue how bad some parents can be & how they can change (the worst parts of their personalities becoming increasingly dominant) over the passage of time.
I posted upthread that I have 2 extended family members who walked away from their kids (physically, not financially) well over 20 years ago due to extremely toxic ex partners. Both genuinely believed they were acting in the best interests of their kids at the time & while I am not suggesting for one minute that it was the best course of action I can understand why sometimes people feel they have no choice but to walk away. The logic behind walking away is that the child/children no longer get put in the middle of the parents like a ticking bomb, & the parent gets to salvage some bit of their own mental health.
Again - I'm not saying it's right, but I can see how in some situations it may feel like the only way forward.
@MorningNinja is correct in that this man will have no life outside of his children because his ex won't allow it, & she is obviously clever enough to manipulate people & situations just to the point of her behaviour not being bad enough for her to get 'caught' - yet she leaves a trail of destruction in her wake.
I have managed a decent relationship at this stage with my exh but he is a very manipulative, controlling individual; traits which really came to the fore when we separated. I was the rp & therefore had leverage but I know that if I had been the nrp dealing with him as the rp my life would have been utter hell. He did some unbelievable stuff towards the end of our marriage & in the early years of our separation - stuff few would believe as he's Mr. Charming to all he meets & stuff that I would not have been able to prove.

MorningNinja · 10/11/2020 13:58

@tiredoftattler the parenting situation isn't challenging or difficult...its completely toxic and highly destructive for everyone involved. We have a child that has been intimately examined by a stranger, fed and encouraged lies from their DM, a DF that gets very little contact with their DD, a child that has been falsely accused of a sexual assault (or so I assume) and an OP second guessing everything she does for fear of malicious accusations. This is far from challenging or difficult, this is batshit crazy.

The OP, and anyone else that has experienced behaviour like this knows that it will never change.

If the DF chooses to stay in this toxic triangle then he only serves to enable the mothers behaviour and this will have a detrimental effect on the DC. He will be her puppet for years to come.

For the OP, her and her DCs lives will be governed by this narcissist and this will impact everything.

And what's the sexual relationship got to do with anything?!

@Magda72 i couldn't agree more.
Sometimes (mostly men) need to walk away to protect their own mental health. It's completely heartbreaking for them and the DC but I think sometimes the lesser of two evils.

sassbott · 10/11/2020 16:49

@Tiredoftattler. What a limited post. Completely lacks any intelligence or insight.

Loving parent? High conflict exh’s / exw’s destroy lives. They damage their children and basically create situations where a NRP either has no life (outside of fighting the ex). Or In order to protect their children and have a life, walk away. But essentially, either way the children and NRP are screwed. And that’s why these NRP’s do what they do. It’s destructive vindictiveness. An obsession over their ex partners.

The collateral damage is the children.

I have never met children as emotionally damaged as my exp’S. If the conflict around them does not settle (and it won’t), these are the children on track to be really screwed up.

You comment is intensely naive.
Would I put my children through what my ex did? No. Never.

I predict that my ex (unless he figures this out), will end up broke and alone.

YoniAndGuy · 10/11/2020 17:07

The only person who can take control here is your partner.

She is unfit to have residency. If he is a decent father, he should now be looking at applying for residency - the child having to have an examination is appalling.

If there is a history of breaking the contact order and hostility, the best thing he can do is approach SS himself and state his concerns, with all the evidence he can gather (abusive messages? documented issues?) and state that he wants them to remain involved, and to get a solicitor and explore applying for residency. You say that they deem her fit because they haven't said that they don't - but, no-one's really asked them to... if mum has simply said she's passing on something the child said, any bigger issue isn't going to be highlighted unless he says no, this is part of a pattern of alienation and hostility and now she has shown that she is willing to abuse our child to continue it. Shove that fact under their noses. Make it clear that the reason the children are never alone together is that you feared this happening.

He may not get residency. He may not even get to the point of actually coming to court. However one thing will happen if he does this. It will scare the living shit out of her. Right now, she feels she's in charge - accusations, flouting contact. If he shows her that he is willing to stand just as tough and if she steps out of line he WILL use her behaviour to get residency of their child... then even if he doesn't win, she is very likely to stop the shit because she will be afraid that she might lose her child. But he needs to actually do it. To turn it around on her. To go to SS himself and ask for help. To turn the spotlight onto her and turn those tables.

Until that happens, you need to stay away with your children.

If he won't do that - 'Oh she'd go ballistic, it would make it worse/What's the point, they won't do anything' - then you need to stay away forever, because this dynamic won't change.

pallisers · 10/11/2020 17:57

I agree with everything Sassbott said. There is no cure for this.

And this is true and chilling

The other side I am sorry to say is that all of these children are young. 4,5,7. Fast forward 5-7 years. An allegation against a 14 year old is a much more serious matter.

sassbott · 10/11/2020 18:29

@YoniAndGuy have you been through anything like this?
Court proceedings do not make high conflict personalities calm down, quite the opposite actually. It actually makes them higher conflict and they don’t do well being told what to do.
Equally, change of residencies against primary carers are very rare.
This child has repeated the allegation. In the case of family court and social services, absolutely nothing will be levelled against the mother. Nothing.

More people need to have knowledge of the system. Stress (and money) involved before wheeling out advice based on ‘outrage.’

YoniAndGuy · 10/11/2020 18:57

Yes I have family experience of this.

I completely appreciate what you are saying. Everyone is different.

But for our 'high conflict' personality, the important thing was breaking the dynamic.

They had been so used to having their word as LAW within the relationship that they literally could not communicate in any other way.

It took the official threat of losing primary residency to make the situation dial down to simple unpleasantness, instead of aggressive acts and direct action using the children. And, incidentally, contact changing so that the actual parents never met and drop offs were via a third party, but I don't necessarily recommend that - very difficult to manage.

YoniAndGuy · 10/11/2020 18:58

But also - the advie still stands because of what this mother has just done. She's abused her child in a horrible way. The father really needs to step up now and try to get residency changed.

LatentPhase · 10/11/2020 18:59

@YoniAndGuy it’s naive to imagine professionals will deem a woman who is ‘responding to a disclosure of abuse’ an unfit parent. It’s the ‘trump card’ for manipulation.

When I was younger and les worldly wise I always wondered how men could turn their back on their kids. Yes there are many feckless men out there, but there are also very damaging and manipulating ex wives.

sassbott · 10/11/2020 19:09

@YoniAndGuy it’s naive to imagine professionals will deem a woman who is ‘responding to a disclosure of abuse’ an unfit parent. It’s the ‘trump card’ for manipulation

This 👆🏽 x 100. No professional will say a word against this mother.
Legal action can then subsequently be viewed as retaliatory against the RP.

LastRoloIsMine · 10/11/2020 19:19

I agree with you OP

As much as I would not want to bow down to this lunatic my children's wellbeing matters more so to protect them I would end the relationship.

I dont see how you cannot. As others have said its unlikely she will be viewed with suspicion or her behaviour checked so her hate campaign will not stop.
My children are worth more than any relationship which is the same opinion I think you hold.

I am sorry.

strugglingtomakesenseofitall · 10/11/2020 19:21

Hi am going through a very similar scenario, Goodluck with your decision. No one can make it for you, I know how hard it is, I think my first instinct after an accusation against one of my children would be to get them the hell away from her and her kids too. Let the dust settle and have some time with your kids and you, take a break essentially, some time out to think things through. Allegations have be made about my husband and I, I worry about the effect on my children too.

ThisMustBeMyDream · 13/11/2020 14:17

New allegations have been made today. Child was presented to A&E yesterday saying that she had significant pain vaginally and anally by the mother. Not been informed of a&e findings. However Social worker has told DP she finds this suspicious as when examined and spoken to 10 days ago, she reported no pain. Obviously there has been no contact between DP and child in the interim.

It has been cleared up re: the initial allegation as one authority said one child, other authority said against both children. Turns out mother said child has said child A did it. But when questioned by SW child said child B did it. So some conflict there.

Strategy meeting has been called. Child has been referred to a sexual abuse clinic for further examination.

What. The. Fuck. Just.... there are no words really.

OP posts:
GlowingOrb · 13/11/2020 14:26

You and your children should never be in the presence of the other child again. The next accusation could be against you.

You will have to decide if a relationship can be sustained for the next 15 years with that sort of hard wall in his life.

SpongebobNoPants · 13/11/2020 14:28

Her mother sounds absolutely insane!
I would turn the tables if I was dad and say well she’s clearly in pain with she’s with the mother, so he is now concerned that the mother and/or someone she is exposed to in that household could be abusing her.

Watch her mother back peddle if social services investigate her!

SpongebobNoPants · 13/11/2020 14:30

I agree with @GlowingOrb.

I also would strongly advise your DP to have cameras in his home and record everything when she visits him or I suspect mum will try to accuse him at some stage too

YoniAndGuy · 13/11/2020 14:33

Once again: your DP is the only person who can take action here.

You and your children need to stay away, he needs to discuss his concerns with the SW and express that he believes his ex is acting abusively and coaching the children in this appalling way.

Come on! If what you are reporting back is true, then the SW already has grave doubts here.

LyingDogsLie1 · 13/11/2020 14:43

Omg. OP I’m so sorry. Do you think it’s possible the mother is abusing the kids.

Please please do not allow yourself or your children to be in the presence, supervised or not, of these children. If that means contact with DH and his kids has to take place somewhere else then so be it.

ThisMustBeMyDream · 13/11/2020 15:17

@SpongebobNoPants he is treading very carefully, but yes, he is concerned that something else could be going on. He can not go making counter allegations though. He needs to make sure he is measured and calm in dealing with this. The social workers are surely able enough to see this without him making his own allegation?

We have stayed away - he hasn't seen his child since the accusation. It has been 16 days since he saw her. I have no intention of doing anything else right now. I am awaiting advice from the social worker in my authority before making final decisions.

@LyingDogsLie1 we discussed that possibility. We actually discussed whether she may have done something prior to presenting the child to a&e with pain. We want to think no. But we know we have to keep an open mind.

OP posts:
RedMarauder · 13/11/2020 15:20

OP good you are staying away from the child.

Your DP needs to say if there is abuse then someone in the mother's house is clearly doing it because neither him or anyone in your house has seen the child since the SW contacted him.

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