Christmas... Already!

aSofaNearYou · 01/10/2020 09:24

SC DM has refused and is expecting DP to keep them till late Christmas eve, and then return them home over 30 miles away when she gets in from work. She won't budge on this

Well she can't force him to drive them late at night, I would tell her she can pick them up if she's so adamant.

What would the kids like to do?

LastGoldenDaysOfSummer · 01/10/2020 09:28

If she won't let them stay then he should tell her to get someone else to look after them.

Bloody cheek.

sqirrelfriends · 01/10/2020 09:30

So basically she's not asking so the kids can see their father, she's asking because of childcare.

If he hasn't had them over Christmas for a few years then it's only fair that he should have them this year, however this is easier said than done if the mother won't agree. I really wouldn't recommend just keeping them, it will cause more upset than it's worth and could impact his access down the line.

How old are the kids, could they have a say in what they want to do?

purpleboy · 01/10/2020 09:38

What do the kids want?
I think he should stand his ground and take it to court, if that's what the kids want, it might not happen in time for this year but at least you will have something concrete in place moving forward.
He shouldn't be denied having his children on Xmas morning.

Stantons · 01/10/2020 10:19

How often do you have the kids? Where do they think of as home?

My OH never has his kids Christmas morning as he thinks its fairer for them to be at home, he goes to see them Christmas day

MJMG2015 · 01/10/2020 10:26

She's being unreasonable expecting him to drop them home very late at night.

What do you think the children would like to do?

She should 'share' Christmas Eve & Christmas Day each year, BUT, I can understand her not wanting to miss out
On her children on CE/CD 'Ever' if he cheated on her & left her. Especially if you were the OW.

Bookaholic73 · 01/10/2020 10:27

I think the Ex is being incredibly unreasonable.
I agree about making court arrangements going forward, but that won’t help you this year.

What are the kids thoughts about them not seeing dad on Christmas Day?

Bookaholic73 · 01/10/2020 10:29

@MJMG2015

She's being unreasonable expecting him to drop them home very late at night.

What do you think the children would like to do?

She should 'share' Christmas Eve & Christmas Day each year, BUT, I can understand her not wanting to miss out
On her children on CE/CD 'Ever' if he cheated on her & left her. Especially if you were the OW.

If you can understand her not wanting to miss out, but not the Dad?

And where is this assumption coming from, that he cheated and OP was the OW?? Talk about jumping to conclusions!

Even if this was the case (which there is no evidence of in this case), it’s not about the mum getting revenge by withholding Christmas contact.
It’s about what is best for the children!

Original poster

Doyoumindifislytherin · 01/10/2020 10:33

She will not collect them and hasn't done once in 3 years. My DP Is expected to do all the donkey work and ferry them to and forth at her beckoning last year it was arranged we would collect the DC at 4pm. 3pm were just about to leave and the phone goes off... "leave it till 8pm as we aren't finished"! Totally ruined our day... DP couldn't relax and have a beer and by the time he got home with DSC it was way past bedtime for everyone!

I've suggested a court order but he doesn't want to go down that route. They are usually amicable to a good extent except for this issue (and the same around birthdays)

We have them EOW. one night in week and 50% of school holidays.

Kids aren't fussed either way. We've just repeated our Christmas day on boxing day the previous years so the kids get 2 mountains of presents and 2 christmas dinners, they're really not bothered in which order it happens

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Original poster

Doyoumindifislytherin · 01/10/2020 10:45

@MJMG2015

That is pretty presumptuous don't you think?! And no I wasnt the OW. Whist my DP and his ex was going through their break up I was going through my own after my ex did do a runner with a much younger model. However I'm not a entitled parent and have never stopped my ex having contact with his DC and we take it turns for xmas and birthdays etc.

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Magda72 · 01/10/2020 11:24

've suggested a court order but he doesn't want to go down that route. They are usually amicable to a good extent except for this issue (and the same around birthdays)
@Doyoumindifislytherin if it's the case they're usually amicable & he doesn't want to go down the court route why does he not just let it go & continue to do Christmas on Boxing Day?
Don't get me wrong - I know it must be upsetting for him but if doesn't want to rock the boat then accepting the current situation is all he has.
My dc (all teens & young adults now) never spent Christmas Eve/Christmas morning with exh. Like a pp also said, they wanted to be home (I'm the rp) & both exh & I respected this. Every year they go to him Christmas Day evening & celebrate with his family on Boxing Day & I honestly don't think either the kids or exh regret the way it was handled.
Christmas is just a day & I personally think the lead up to it & Christmas activities during December are more fun than the day itself.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 01/10/2020 11:29

Whg don't you ask to have the the day before Christmas eve and have your Christmas day with them on Christmas eve?
I take it your dp was the one to move away hence why he does the travelling with the children.

aSofaNearYou · 01/10/2020 11:42

This is one of those situations where you could describe it as amicable, but in reality it's only amicable because he's doing exactly what she says, and it's making his life miserable. He needs to pick between standing up for himself, and probably not having as "amicable" a relationship, or letting it go.

With regards Christmas - we have never had my SS either. He's 7 now and at this point, I don't think he would want to spend christmas with us if we pushed it. He might have done in the early days, but this amongst other things that have been put in place by his mum to ensure hers is his "main" house, have contributed to him viewing it that way. We tend to have him on Boxing Day and my DP puts a load of effort into trying to hype it up as a "second" Christmas, with all the presents, seeing family, games etc. Invariably my SS will arrive and immediately say something unthinking about how he's already had his real christmas, doesn't seem to get why it's still happening, and behaves in a way that makes it clear he doesn't see this day as anything important. Little things, but very disheartening for my partner. He goes through the same disappointment every year. Just a cautionary tale that if he DOES let it go and go along with his ex to keep things amicable, he will probably need to get used to his kids viewing their other house as their main home and her as their main parent.

MJMG2015 · 01/10/2020 11:48

@Bookaholic73

How about you try reading what I actually wrote?

MyCatHatesEverybody · 01/10/2020 11:50

This is one of those situations where you could describe it as amicable, but in reality it's only amicable because he's doing exactly what she says, and it's making his life miserable. He needs to pick between standing up for himself, and probably not having as "amicable" a relationship, or letting it go.

@aSofaNearYou 100% spot on as ever.

MJMG2015 · 01/10/2020 11:54

[quote Doyoumindifislytherin]@MJMG2015

That is pretty presumptuous don't you think?! And no I wasnt the OW. Whist my DP and his ex was going through their break up I was going through my own after my ex did do a runner with a much younger model. However I'm not a entitled parent and have never stopped my ex having contact with his DC and we take it turns for xmas and birthdays etc.[/quote]
No. It wasn't presumptuous at all. You do understand the word IF?

I said she should share but IF he cheated & left her I could understand her not wanting to especially IF you were the OW.

IF

Fabulous that you're happy to share Christmas with your cheating Ex, but I do understand women who don't want to miss out on things with their children because a cheating twat has buggered off with someone else. Especially if the children aren't bothered or would rather not go.

Magda72 · 01/10/2020 11:56

@aSofaNearYou - very good points. Possibly my situation worked so well as both exh & I were genuinely on board with it & he had/has no problem with the kids viewing mine as home. I mean they love going to his but mine is home for them - not an idea promoted by me, it just came about that way (probably due to a variety of reasons/circumstances) & everyone was happy with it.

MJMG2015 · 01/10/2020 11:58

@aSofaNearYou

This is one of those situations where you could describe it as amicable, but in reality it's only amicable because he's doing exactly what she says, and it's making his life miserable. He needs to pick between standing up for himself, and probably not having as "amicable" a relationship, or letting it go

Exactly.

MJMG2015 · 01/10/2020 12:01

[quote Magda72]@aSofaNearYou - very good points. Possibly my situation worked so well as both exh & I were genuinely on board with it & he had/has no problem with the kids viewing mine as home. I mean they love going to his but mine is home for them - not an idea promoted by me, it just came about that way (probably due to a variety of reasons/circumstances) & everyone was happy with it.[/quote]
Thats undeniably the best thing for many children. I think they feel more stable having a home and somewhere homely, they feel totally welcome with the other parent, rather than being forced to see both equally.

aSofaNearYou · 01/10/2020 12:14

@Magda72 Absolutely, I don't actually see it as a problem for children to view one home as their main residence, especially when they are there a majority of their time, I think it's quite unrealistic to expect otherwise. Though in my SS's case there have been a lot of more dubious things like his mum breaking down in front of him on several occasions which has left him with a very strong impression that she can't cope without him and he needs to feel guilty for spending time away from her. She also likes telling him that his dad lives terrifyingly far away on the motorway which has put him off coming a lot. Lots of subtle things that are not at all positive.

But in any case, I think it would be naive of OPs partner not to expect his approach in these early years to have a long lasting affect on how his children view their relationship with him, one way or the other.

caringcarer · 01/10/2020 12:19

Since divorce my DC spend every Xmas day with me and every Boxing day with their Dad. They are grown up now but still do this. I have always made their stockings and chosen their gifts and they wanted to wake up at home with their stockings. There Dad tended to ask me what to get them when they were younger, now he just gives them money into their bank accounts. He has had them on their birthdays some years though. We asked the children what they would like and they said Xmas day with Mum and Boxing day with Dad. We agreed to stick to what they wanted. If Mum wants them for Xmas Day she should collect them after work. What do the children want?

lunar1 · 01/10/2020 12:25

The ex is being incredibly unreasonable, but I agree that if your DH doesn't want to rock to boat then he should just go with it and be the bigger person.

It's not fair on him at all, but to make it change he has to go to court.

He can make an adventure out of the late night drive back, have an exciting Christmas Eve with you before getting in the car and keeping an eye on the sky to see if they can spot Santa.

Just not taking them back without agreement is going to create war on Christmas Eve and day that the children would be right in the middle of.

Original poster

Doyoumindifislytherin · 01/10/2020 12:37

I had already suggested the Christmas eve is the new christmas day scenario, however this still limits and interferes with "our Christmas" as she expects the DC to be dropped off and put to bed in time for her getting in from work meaning neither of us could enjoy the day due to the trip "home".

What I haven't mentioned is that we will be collecting ting the DC from school on breakup day and keeping them until she wants them back on christmas eve as she has plans for xmas nights out etc. Also we are expected to have them NYE and return NYD so she can enjoy the festivities (same every year) which also means we cant enjoy the festivities.

The only "Fair" way that I can see is to alternate each year as I do with my exp. That way they get to spend important milestones and dates with both parents dispute the breakdown of their relationship. Although going off the responses here this isn't the norm and my exp should go to hell and spend all eternity paying for his infidelity and not dream of being a proper parent to his child because the relationship failed Seriously?!

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foxyroxyyy · 01/10/2020 12:43

I think you should both put your foot down and stop pandering to her. It will be painful and mean your dp misses out on some Xmas eves etc but I guarantee she'll sort her shit out and stop being so selfish if you do.
She's taking you for mugs telling you to drop them home at her convenience and your letting her. Tell your dp to stop moaning if he isn't going to sort it out and go to court.
It's annoying when people whinge and are in the right but are being all gentle avoiding taking the steps they need to when the other is completely taking the piss!

Original poster

Doyoumindifislytherin · 01/10/2020 12:54

@foxyroxyyy I agree wholeheartedly. It's a point of contention between me and DP. he literally panders to her every whim. Mainly because the divorce isn't finalised and he doesn't want to "rock the boat" until the financials are sorted. The fact it's taken them both years to get to this stage is another story!
However it's not my circus and not my monkeys. It's his issue to deal with and I would never usually stick my 2pence in... but this time it impacts me directly and my DC. This is my year for christmas with my own DC and the one previously was ruined because we had to carve up the whole day round her plans and the DSC.

Paer of me does agree with him and the whole to hell with her attitude. However as a mother myself I can see both sides and as such trying to guide him to an agreeable solution without a nuclear fall out.
He certainly needs to grow a pair or suck it up. ...

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