Redundancy and Child Maintenance

[TazSyd]

DP is currently furloughed and found out last week that he is at risk of redundancy. He has been expecting this and thinks that there is a high chance that he will be made redundant. He’s been there less than 2 years, so will only be paid 1 month notice and accrued holiday pay. As he lives with me he will only be entitled to £75 a week contributions based benefits.

We have a DD together and he also has another daughter who lives with her mum but stays with us 2 nights a week (in normal times). One weeknight and also on a Friday night and Saturday day - we pick her up from school on Friday and drop her back at her mum’s after dinner on a Saturday. As DP has been furloughed, we (well he, as I have been working from home so haven’t done much childcare during the day for either DD or DSD) have been having her more often - more like a 50/50 split. Despite his drop in income and the increase in childcare, he hasn’t reduced the maintenance he pays to his ex.

I’ve spoken to a couple of recruiter friends and they’ve said that the employment market has picked up a bit but realistically they aren’t expecting it to pick up properly until September. So DP could well be unemployed for a few months.

DP will pay £7 per week out of his JSA to his ex but this is a lot less than he currently pays (£300 per month). I know I have no legal responsibility for DSD but should I top up the maintenance to DPs ex?

It’s different paying it to an ex
And that the crux of the matter. It is not about the child. When the child is with his dad and SM, he is his dad' child but when he is with his mother, he suddenly becomes only the child of the ex.

No consideration at all to the point that the child remains the exact same person, same feelings, same needs, same emotions, same sense of being. He is not mum's child one some days, dad's child the others. He is an individual regardless of where he is spending the night.

These kids pick up so well on their SM perception of the above and sadly their own father's too when they also consider them the same.

Maintenance is not about paying the ex. Its not spousal payment. Its money that goes for the child so that the child, child of the man you committed to, can have a well balanced happy life at all time, not only when he is visible.

Yes oh yes, I sympathise with lazy ex happy to work as little hours relying on maintenance, but however the mother carries out her life should not be what determine whether and how maintenance should be paid. The old 'two wrongs don't make it right'.

What I hate about these threads is hi
ow the kids are often talked as if they are just collateral. They are not seen as individuals who don't care about what is best for their mum or dad. They want to be able to be the same child whether they are with their mum or dad, not have to adapt and mold themselves to fit within what is expected of them to suit the two different families.

and its like yes, but my child barely sees dad because dad has a job and my child gets an hour before bed with him and thats it most days
How can you not see how much a difference that one hour makes? That in traditional arrangements, the second child gets their parents for themselves eow? How can this be worse than what the first child gets in that traditional set up? They might both not get enough time with their dad, but the second still gets more than the first.

Absolutely this @hitthenailonthehead

Edit @dontdisturbmenow

How can you not see how much a difference that one hour makes? That in traditional arrangements, the second child gets their parents for themselves eow? How can this be worse than what the first child gets in that traditional set up? They might both not get enough time with their dad, but the second still gets more than the first

Because that hour isn't quality time. In that hour dad might be making tea, child might be getting ready for bed or whatever.

The first child might get a whole day or a whole weekend. The second child gets the hours here and there. It's not more at all. If you'd been a second child or had a second child you'd realise that.

Meh, my non willingness to pay my partner's maintenance has nothing to do with his ex really. I just don't consider myself or want to be financially responsible for somebody else's child. It's not my responsibility. I hope they are well provided for by their two parents in the same way I hope all other children are well provided for by their parents, but would only go so far as to actually pay for my own, and would naturally take issue with somebody trying to get me to pay for theirs.

And I'm pretty sure when people point out that living with your parent on weekday evenings isn't the same as having weekend quality time, they are referring to scenarios where the second child doesn't also get weekend quality time. So an arrangement like every weekend, not EOW. Either that or, as I see quite often on here, the dad spending quality time with DSC when he has them, then picking up overtime the rest of the time, never prioritising quality time with the younger child in the same way. And I agree it isn't practical or reasonable to centre weekends around 1:1 time with one child, as a rule, when you have more than one.

No child wants their family ripped apart unless there is abuse etc going on.
No child particularly would chose to go between two households, have to accept a new parental figure or embrace new siblings.
They do but don't think it's easy. Second kids also suffer for the ways you've described.
It takes a huge amount of harmony and support to make everyone happy.
When a nrp makes sure there are provisions in place to provide the security the first child needs always and makes it an absolute priority, then they can go on to have more children again making sure these children are equally supported and nurtured.
That's the ideal isn't it.
In this case there are opinions for and against the ops suggestions to their problem and that's fine.
People are always going to disagree.

Honestly I'd recommend anyone thinking about becoming a step parent or having a child with someone who has kids from a previous relationship to have a sit down and think long and hard about it, and decide absolutely categorically not to do it because it's a fucking terrible idea.

That's my honest advice. Don't do it. don't get involved. Don't do it to yourself or your future children. Its not worth it.

Because that hour isn't quality time. In that hour dad might be making tea, child might be getting ready for bed or whatever
So if that is the case, you could say that a child of a single working parent never ever gets quality time.

Are you saying that dad never comes home and kisses his kid, give them a hug and ask how their day was? Never spend time eating at the table with them, never sitting for even 10mbscon the soda with them? Never going to read a book or kiss them food night?

If that's the case, than you have a husband issue because the opportunity is there it's his choice not to make it quality at all. That option is not there for the first child.

And what does dad do the two weekend days that first child is it there? Ignore second child the entire time?

@TrustTheGeneGenie I completely agree, I would never never do it again.
I take my hats off to families who can truly make it work and everyone is happy.

I just don't consider myself or want to be financially responsible for somebody else's child. It's not my responsibility
But what if the mother decides to move to the other side of the work or passed away. They move with their dad, so you too. He loses his job and as you work ft, he can't claim benefits. You are expected to support him AND his children.

So then what? You say that you are not prepared to pay for his kids so he has to move out? Or will you of course support him and his kids, in which case, it's back to not being about the kid, but about not wanting to contribute when the money for the child goes to the mother.

So if that is the case, you could say that a child of a single working parent never ever gets quality time

Unless they work 7 days a week, no you couldn't.

Are you saying that dad never comes home and kisses his kid, give them a hug and ask how their day was? Never spend time eating at the table with them, never sitting for even 10mbscon the soda with them? Never going to read a book or kiss them food night?

Yep he does all those things. Not always just those two though. Because yeno I do also live here. But quality time with first kids is one on one and encouraged to be. Usually full days at a time.

And what does dad do the two weekend days that first child is it there? Ignore second child the entire time?

Mine doesn't but many do. Read these boards. Lots of second children are point blank ignored while the first are around. Especially those with bigger age gaps. It's actively encouraged by the first wives club on MN tho. It's the thing you should do appaz.

@TrustTheGeneGenie completely agree, never again

That's my honest advice. Don't do it. don't get involved. Don't do it to yourself or your future children. Its not worth it
Well of course, there are many many SMs who are very happy to be so and have no issues, so I'd rather say, if you do meet a man with children, take your time, really take your time, assess that you have similar principles when it comes to bringing up kids and ideally that the ex's are similar too. Ensure that the ex has moved on from the break up. Ensure that you like the kids but accept that there might come times, ie.teenagehoid you might question if you really do but that's ok.

Ensure your new partner is financially independent and will most likely able to remain so. Ensure that he doesn't consider raising children the duty of women regardless of his job. And finally consider that you could cope with them moving in with you permanently if something happened and they couldn't stay or want to with their mum. If all those boxes are ticked, it is very possible that you will be happy and become very close to your SCs even to the point when you might consider them very much like your own kids.

And that the crux of the matter. It is not about the child. When the child is with his dad and SM, he is his dad' child but when he is with his mother, he suddenly becomes only the child of the ex.

I didn’t say that. Of course the child is still the dad’s child. But the child isn’t the dad’s partner’s child.

No consideration at all to the point that the child remains the exact same person, same feelings, same needs, same emotions, same sense of being. He is not mum's child one some days, dad's child the others. He is an individual regardless of where he is spending the night.

Yep, I agree with this again. Still not the dad’s partner’s child though.

These kids pick up so well on their SM perception of the above and sadly their own father's too when they also consider them the same.

Kids need to remember they have two parents who are responsible for them. Most kids understand this. The ones who don’t are the ones who get indulged and end up bitter that their dad’s wife didn’t shower them with money when they were at their mum’s. Honestly, my mum’s partner didn’t give my dad a penny (my mum was the nrp) but it didn’t even occur to me that he would!

Maintenance is not about paying the ex. Its not spousal payment. Its money that goes for the child so that the child, child of the man you committed to, can have a well balanced happy life at all time, not only when he is visible.
Again, the partner isn’t responsible for the child when not with them. The dad is of course and not disputing that. But the partner isn’t. Are people actually this entitled?

so I'd rather say, if you do meet a man with children, take your time, really take your time, assess that you have similar principles when it comes to bringing up kids and ideally that the ex's are similar too. Ensure that the ex has moved on from the break up. Ensure that you like the kids but accept that there might come times, ie.teenagehoid you might question if you really do but that's ok

Yep. I did all that. Thought the ex had moved on. Seemed like a lovely, sensible woman and a brilliant mother. Things changed rapidly but by then I was in deep. A very common story.

Ensure your new partner is financially independent and will most likely able to remain so. Ensure that he doesn't consider raising children the duty of women regardless of his job

Check!

And finally consider that you could cope with them moving in with you permanently if something happened and they couldn't stay or want to with their mum

He did in the end and it was all very successful actually at that point.

If all those boxes are ticked, it is very possible that you will be happy and become very close to your SCs even to the point when you might consider them very much like your own kids

It's also very possible you'll still massively regret the whole thing and wouldn't do any of it again even if they paid you.

Of course it's possible you'll be happy. It's more probable, that you won't be, in reality. Or in my case, you will be happy, but you'll have made hundreds of sacrifices to get there.

*But what if the mother decides to move across the work or passed away. They move with their dad, so you too. He loses his job and as you work ft, he can't claim benefits. You are expected to support him AND his children.

So then what? You say that you are not prepared to pay for his children, so he has to move out? Or will you of course support him and his kids*

Probably not, no. That is not the scenario I signed up for. Perhaps if I was earning so much that doing so wouldn't negatively impact me and my DD, I would consider it, but that isn't the case so no I wouldn't agree to financially supporting him and his kids.

It’s not reasonable or practical to centre weekends around 1-1 time with one child, when there are more than one

Totally agree but that’s often what happens or is expected to happen. It’s unrealistic, it’s too intense and bears no resemblance to normal family dynamics. It’s not healthy for the child or the parent.

* This keeps on coming up on my threads I’m on.... I don’t think I’ve ever come across an OP so committed to keeping her thread going! *

I mistakenly said the OP. I meant @TrustTheGeneGenie!

Sorry I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to reply

Sort of proves my point perfectly!

Took you 6 mins though, may be you’re becoming less committed?!

@juliet2014 that mistake kind of implies you thought Genie was the Op, which I think is what's going wrong with this thread. Almost nobody disagrees with OP but it's turned into a wider conversation in which OP keeps being told to keep quiet. Nobody seems to really understand who or what they are arguing against, it all seems a bit unnecessary when everyone is in agreement that OP is not responsible for paying.

Oh no one has told the op to keep quiet at all.
The OP turned this into a wider discussion by asking if there should be a women's tax to pay for feckless single mums who never had their finances in top order prior to having a child and by deliberately choosing what to make about her and being goady

@Juliet2014

Took you 6 mins though, may be you’re becoming less committed?!

What is your fucking problem?

Lots of other people have kept the thread going. It’s a discussion Were we supposed to stop at a certain amount or something?