This is going to be a divisive one...

[TeaAndWine]

Interested in opinions and ways to deal with this. Will try to be succinct.

4 DC between 5-13. We have them two nights in the week and EOW, plus lots of times one on their own for sleepover etc.

DH pays what is set out on CMS but is officialy through the CMS if that makes sense. We just used the calculator on their website. Plus extras for trips/uniform etc.

DH's ex wife is going with a friend to Disney Orlando for two and a half weeks in September, without the kids, so we will have them that time. No problems, I'm quite looking forward to it.

The kids have been to Florida as holiday many times before, and this will be around her 15th time going. Odd to me why of all the places to go in this world without kids you would choose to go their again but hey ho, horses for courses etc.

My question is - Surely if we're having the kids for nearly three weeks DH should not be expected to pay CMS while she's there? That's effectively giving her spending money. Our bills for food/days out etc will go through the roof.

We simply cannot afford to pay the CMS that month and to have them. The CMS is just that - for the children. Who we will have.

We have them numerous other nights that have never been taken into account with the calculation.

I think part of me that I'm happy to admit is bitter as she's never worked a day in her life, even before she had kids, yet we can't even afford to go for a weekend away despite both working full time, but perhaps that's a different thread.

Would we BU to say we will be paying CMS for the one week she has them that month? As the money is for the children, who will be with us nearly the whole month?

Open to hearing thoughts. Don's tin hat

You will mostly likely be receiving far more than the Ex in this case
That's possible - the two countries have different systems. However I receive the amount I do on the basis that I have my children 75/25. If exh & I were 50/50 or thereabouts I wouldn't have received a penny.

It still stands that the OPs DH who is being lauded for what... paying the minimum enforceable amount for four children, is already being subsidized by his Ex. So what if he pays for a few extras?

This is the bit don’t get? Why do you seem to think the ex is bearing the financial burden of these children more than the father?
If he is splitting costs of clothing / uniforms / trips etc, having them 48% of the time and also paying (albeit minimum maintenance) for the extra day a fortnight that she has them, then how do you work out that the ex here is paying more towards the costs of the children than their dad?
I’m genuinely confused as to how you have come to that conclusion?

I don’t understand how the ex is “subsidising” the dad in these particular circumstances

paying the minimum enforceable amount for four children, is already being subsidized by his Ex. So what if he pays for a few extras? It’s hardly going to bring his maintenance up to half the amount those children cost

I dont know whether you just genuinely dont understand or youre on the wind up?

Think of it like this.

2 parents. Each 50% responsible for the child.

Parent a (the ex) has the kids 52% of the time which covers her responsibility.

Parent b (op and dad) has the kids 48% of the time so has 2% of the responsibility to cover financially. he is more than covering this as he is paying maintenance based on him having the kids a much lower % of time

Please, please explain how on earth you think the ex is subsidising him here?

Why do you seem to think the ex is bearing the financial burden of these children more than the father?

Because at the risk of sounding like a scratched record. CMS is the minimum enforceable amount. It is not half of the child costs. And with the calculation for nights they have etc it is highly, highly unlikely to be anywhere near half the costs of the child.

It is widely misunderstood that if someone pays the CMS amount that this is at least half the costs of actually bringing up the child.

If exh & I were 50/50 or thereabouts I wouldn't have received a penny.

This is a different argument and one which the OP for some reason is not prepared to consider as a course of action. I don’t know why as if it is truly 50/50 then it would make far more sense to go back to court, and get another agreement, it would still have to include who pays for what e.g. who mainly pays for clothes etc.

The OP saying it is 50/50 as a reason to withhold CMS because the mother is on holiday for 3 weeks is not a fair course of action and not a good reason to withhold this. Firstly because it’s minimal anyway, and secondly because morally I think it’s mean to be petty about paying the minimum enforceable. It’s like my Ex who does this, he pays 20% but believes it is 50%, because he can hide behind the CMS.

So unless they sort out 50/50 properly and fairly, then it is not fair at all to be saying that is a reason to reduce money last minute. The mother probably needs to budget and it feels quite mean to do this.

The mother probably needs to budget and it feels quite mean to do this
Yeah shes deffo on a shoe string having just booked 3 weeks to disney

Ffs cant you see how ridiculous you sound?

Everyone budgets!

It’s not fair to pull money last minute with no proper discussion.

It is not ridiculous and I don’t know why I’m being viciously attacked and name called just for presenting a fair and balanced view.

This is where I think a lot of horrible vilification has crept in to this thread which is shameful really. That the mother is a greedy selfish woman dripping with money and the OP and her husband are martyrs.

Where does this come from?

These are real lives out there and we all have a responsibility not to gang up like wolves.

There is no justification at all for making the mother out to be a greedy wealthy horrible person who swans off without her children and depends on the poor ex father. He’s paying the CMS and that is it, no more!

These are the facts. The Ex has not asked for a penny more.

Her husband should go to court about 50/50 as this is what this whole thread has turned into and do it properly.

Slagging off the Ex and mother is totally unjustified.

There are a whole host of reasons that 50/50 may not be what the husband actually wants e.g.
Having to pick the kids up from school every day
Having to share their sick days
Having to have a bedroom for them each
Having to split costs fairly on top of that through mediation and not CMS so that they aren’t duplicating everything.

If he wants to do this though then fine go and get it sorted properly.

So if everyone budgets .. op will not have budgeted for having 4 kids for 3 solid weeks will she. Do you suggest she just pulls the money out her arse or??

Your view isnt fair or balanced. Youve repeatedly said he pays the minimum. This is incorrect.

Youve repeatedly said what he pays doesnt cover 50% but ignored several posts explaining WHY that is and WHY its right.

They do 48/52 - its as near as dammit and youre talking about it as if he has them one saturday a month.

I havent called the mother greedy.

As for this
who swans off without her children
Thats exactly what shes doing!!!

@Snowfalling20
Your view isn’t fair and balanced when you are dismissing the facts that have been stated over and over again which don’t suit your narrative.
Based on the facts, the DF in this scenario is currently bearing more than 50% of the children’s costs, so you continuing to bang on about CMS not covering 50% of costs is infuriating.
The OP and her DH want the money to spend on the children that month. Their DM wants it to spend at Disney. Takes a twisted mind to justify that.

Youre on the wrong thread

@Snowfalling20 I’m genuinely wondering if you can’t read or if you’re being facetious
Of course basic CMS doesn’t cover half the costs of raising a child, however in this particular set of circumstances the dad is having his children 48% of the time AND paying half for extras AND also paying “basic CMS” which is higher than it should be because it’s being calculated on less nights than he is actually having them.
Therefore, he IS paying for half the costs of raising those children, quite likely more than the mother as she is also receiving maintenance for 1 day extra a fortnight that’s she’s having them.

CMS is a contribution towards the costs of raising the children, which the dad is already incurring half of the time.

Dad will also be paying to house them, feed them, wash their clothes, bathe them, petrol costs for ferrying them back and forth etc.
ALL the same costs as their mother for nearly an identical amount of time.

AND then on top of that he is also paying towards them when they are with their mum.

He is more than pulling his weight financially

Yes I can read, that is quite an insulting thing to say really.

All of the posters who say that the OP is 50/50 have not taken into consideration what 50/50 actually means. A legal court would, and that would be the best way to go.

The OP has been quite evasive about a lot of the facts. She says that they have them 168 nights a year, however she said previously that this was a mixture of all the kids and one child. So it is likely that they do not have all the kids 168 nights a year.

Both she and her husband work full time. There are no childcare costs. That means that they cannot be picking up children aged 5 and upwards from school on even a half time basis.

OP said in a response to me that they had bedrooms for each of the children. Yet in fact she says they rent a four bedroom house. 2 adults plus 4 children equals at least a 5 bedroom house. So they are not providing an equal home where they have their own bedroom 50/50.

They do not cover I presume, the 3 months of the year that school aged children have holidays where childcare would have to be provided and paid for. They do not pay any childcare. So the mother is presumably covering this.

These are all the considerations that would be needed to be discussed properly if indeed they are 50/50.

Not unnecessary and bitchy comments about the mothers holidays and whether she works.

If she did work I presume the childcare for four children for after school and holiday clubs would need to be taken 50/50 by both parents so he may well find he’d pay way more than he is doing at present.

@WeHaveSnowdrops
Seriously what childcare does she need to pay for if she's either at home herself or we have them??

Thank you to all the PP's who have responded having looked at all the facts. We will not be paying for those weeks she is in Florida. Not giving her spending money to get a Disney fast pass whilst we can't take the kids anywhere.

Sorry @WeHaveSnowdrops didn't mean to tag you in that

OP said in a response to me that they had bedrooms for each of the children. Yet in fact she says they rent a four bedroom house. 2 adults plus 4 children equals at least a 5 bedroom house. So they are not providing an equal home where they have their own bedroom 50/50

So the fact they share a room at their father’s should affect maintenance? Lots of parents can not afford accommodation which gives children a room each. It’s not a lesser standard of accommodation and doesn’t mean the children aren’t cared for by their father when they are there.

2 nights in the week and EOW is 6/14 in my book
26x2 - 52 weekend days per annum

104 week days per year
156 week days per year is not 50:50 per child

An extra day per month is not going to make it 50:50

Stuffed op has them 168 nights a year. This is 2 nights a week and eow and all the extras they have had all the kids. They have the kids individually on top of that.

168 nights a year is about 48%. Not many more nights would be needed for 50%

Childcare is an issue if it’s truly 50/50!

So ex is basically doing ‘your’ childcare if you are saying it is 50/50. Because you both work full time and childcare isn’t just night time.

Why don’t you answer these basic questions then OP:

How many children do you have each night of the year?

What time do you have them from?

What time are they returned?

Who picks them up from school?

Who has them during the day in holidays?

Who provides a bedroom for them each?
Who pays the majority of their bills?
Food?
Holiday clubs?
Clothes?
Toys etc and phones/ computer?

When you do 50/50 and therefore as you are both full time, get childcare, who pays for this?

Why does she need childcare WHEN SHE HASNT GOT A JOB??

Bedrooms are irrelevant - why do you keep bringing that up?