Am I being grumpy with regard to nosy children?!

[BoredOfRainyDays]

First time posting on step-parenting, so please be nice to me! I’m just after some perspective really, as to whether I am grumpy and expecting too much of children, or whether my boyfriend is being a bit lenient with his.

I was out and about earlier with my boyfriend and his 4 year old daughter. We (my boyfriend and I) were having a conversation quietly about something as we were walking along, while his little girl was holding the hand furthest away from me. Not anything ‘secret’, but something that wasn’t relevant to his little girl and that she wouldn’t have been interested in anyway! So we’re walking along and mid-way through my sentence his little girl said to me “What are you talking about?” so I said “Oh I’m just talking to your Daddy at the moment” and smiled at her and tried to carry on. She then asked again and I said “Well it doesn’t really matter too much, and I’m just talking to daddy at the moment.” Then she asked again, and just as I was trying to think of a way to explain to her nicely that it wasn’t really any of her business what we were talking about, her dad (who I had hoped was going to back me up!) told her what it was we were talking about. I gave him a bit of an exasperated look and when he asked me what was wrong I pointed out to him that I had been purposefully trying not to tell her because it wasn’t really any of her business. He then said “But children don’t understand things not being their business.” Now I do understand that children are not ‘aware’ of things like that in the same way that adults are (I work with children, but older ones than her), but surely it is at points like this that you try and explain it to them? I was hopeful he would say “We are just having a grown up conversation at the minute, I might be able to tell you a bit about it later” or something along those lines, but no. His older daughter will also attempt to listen/join in conversations between the two of us that we are clearly trying to have privately (generally they are to do with making plans for potential nice things to do with them!) so it’s not just the little one. I think by that age (she’s 9) she should be old enough to know that it is quite rude to interrupt a private conversation between 2 people (whether they are adults or children) and ask what they are talking about.

My parents were in general quite strict with regards to manners though (they are big fans of the “I’m
talking about you, not to you!” phrase) so I don’t know whether I’m just being a bit picky and expecting too much. Thoughts?

4 year olds are curious, interested and inquisitive but rarely nosy.

You sound young op and out of your depth.
Try and use this to your advantage and have fun with the little girl. Be playful and caring. No need to be having private conversations with her daddy when she is there. Bring something fun to the days with his child and this will help you all no end.

It’s not that you’re unreasonable or grumpy, you’re just expecting a bit too much from a 4 year old.

It’s difficult for her to understand that a conversation that was being had in front of her is private. She wasn’t eavesdropping, she just wanted to join in. As others have suggested, at 4 years old she doesn’t actually want to know as such, just a “we’re just talking about the new house” would be enough.

I highly doubt you’re an evil stepmother

That's a lovely helpful post Springwalk

(I struggled a bit)

I hate that behaviour, it's always been a rule with my children that there are no private conversations in a group. If you don't want to say it in front of whoever is there at the time then it can wait till later.

SoyDora it doesnt make any difference. I was stating my own circumstances. Mentioned that I was a step mum as this situation relates to the OPs stepchild

But apparently I was wrong
Well most thing you were, including your oh. You think that a child interrupting an adult conversation when out for a walk together is rude and need to be taught so whrn the majority here think it is disrespect full to go out in a group, whether with children and other adults and think you can have a private conversation and expect thrm to switch off to it whilst yet still with you.

Whst did you expect her to do? Ding to herself?

BTW, my mum did this with my sd when he came to spend the weekend and we went on walks. I was expected to bugger off far enough to not hear their conversation but still close enough to be with them. I was bored to death and resented him for making me feel excluded.

I only ever had adult conversation when my kids were present if it was both of them and they could therefore have a conversation between themselves.

I hope that the OP doesn't feel ganged-up-on by the rest of us. I had extraordinary ideas about children before I had some of my own, I'm glad I was never put in the position of being a stepmother, I'd have been a nightmare!

Your own parents sound like they were very strict, almost Victorian, OP. Best not to model your own interactions with children on how they raised you, it will make your SC hate you :(

A little four-year-old isn't being cheeky when she asks what you're talking about, she's feeling excluded.

I had left as I felt I’d taken everything I could from the thread, but it doesn’t feel right to ignore the most recent posters so I am back briefly!

I wouldn’t say my parents were overly strict at all actually, but they did put a lot of emphasis on manners and being polite. And yes, they did have quiet ‘adult only’ conversations sometimes with us in the vicinity. I would say that for the most part the children’s father and I have fairly similar ideas on what is acceptable or not, we have been together about 18 months now so it’s something we would have talked about if not. I work with young adults now and I see a fair bit of rudeness, when sometimes I don’t even think they realise they are being rude. So I guess it’s something I feel quite strongly about. But everyone is entitled to different opinions on the matter, and obviously different people have very different opinions on what is acceptable. That’s only natural! I guess the key thing to consider is that they are not my children, so until the stage when we potentially live together it’s really none of my business, and even then it’s only a little bit my business as they have two parents already!

Just to clarify two things before I disappear for good though.

My boyfriend had already initiated this conversation earlier in the trip out, while we were sat eating, just between the two of us. It was brief (while his little girl was distracted by her lunch!) but it did happen. So he obviously not think it is unreasonable to have the odd conversation that the children are not really part of. But I know that lots of people do which is perfectly understandable. He has also intervened if we have been talking (for example in the two front seats of the car) and one of them has tried to interrupt by explaining that we were talking. Obviously this occasion is a little different though.

I was not annoyed with his daughter at all for interrupting, as I have stated multiple times. I also did not expect that at 4 years old age she would have perfect social etiquette. The point of my question was basically it is unreasonable to want to try and explain to children that sometimes people have their own conversations and that while you can ask what they were talking about they might not want to tell you! The general consensus seems to be that it’s rude to have private conversations at all, so I am taking that as a yes!

Enjoy half term Mumsnet!

@Juells for the most part not at all, no, most people have been very helpful. Some of the earlier posts I feel were completely excessive (I don’t feel the need to re visit them!) but I think that’s normal for the step parenting area of Mumsnet! I do have a very good relationship with both the children (I have known them both since before their father and I started seeing each other) and I don’t think they are in danger of starting to hate me any time soon, in the same way that I most certainly don’t hate either of my parents! With regards to some things I am less strict than their Dad is, but luckily we have a fairly similar general outlook. Thank you for your advice!

When I was first a stepmother I didn’t have children of my own but experience of spending time with many nieces and nephews and god children too. Sometimes I thought ‘I wouldn’t allow that’ but you really have to go gently with children in blended/step families- people have such differing views on what’s important in terms of discipline and the children have to cope with that from all different directions, it’s hard for them to know where they stand sometimes. Just worth remembering what they’re coping with and to definitely pick your battles!

And yes, they did have quiet ‘adult only’ conversations sometimes with us in the vicinity
So it wasn't just you but you and your siblings and you were not holding hands but in the vicinity. I think that's the difference as stated above, I did have conversation with an adult when it was both my kids hanging around. I wouldn't have done it with just one of them holding my hand.

@BoredOfRainyDays o hope you don't think I was being harsh, that wasn't my intention. I also don't think you are a wicked stepmother! When you're building a relationship, everyone is learning. Your stepdaughter is learning that she has 2 families and things may differ between homes, and you're learning about life with a 4 year old. No one gets it perfect straight away, especially step parents! Parents have all of this to get used to from birth, step parents get thrown in and expected to get it right!

You're being terribly unreasonable and slightly unpleasant. Kids are naturally inquisitive, there was no reason not to tell her and be honest. Absolutely none.

I think it’s fine to have adult conversations around kids which don’t include them (everyone does this) and I also think it’s ok to reply to an enquiry by saying that it’s adult chat and not of their concern.

However, the wee girl is only 4, curious and probably wanted to be included in the chat. She’s not ‘nosy’ and she didn’t do anything wrong.I think your dp was grand to respond the way he did...often if you explain to kids what you’re talking about in layman’s terms, they quickly lose interest as it’s adult stuff and none of their concern, like they have already been told.

Of course you’re allowed to have an adult chat with your partner...and she is also allowed to ask what you’re talking about. Your dp can tell her to mind her own or offer her an explanation as he sees fit.
It’s not a competition. Don’t make it one.
Good luck. Xx

I don't think it's "nosy" or rude to ask what two people are talking about when they're having that conversation right in front of you!

OP, you've mentioned a few times what your parents used to do. I think that's made such a strong impression on you that now you're convinced that's the right way to do things. Whereas most people on this thread have agreed that it's actually quite rude to exclude someone from a conversation, no matter what their age.

And talking "quietly" is just going to make little kids prick up their ears even more

It's very obvious that you are not a parent yourself. You have very unrealistic ideas of what 4 year olds should do. The fact is that you were walking with her but having a private conversation between you and your partner - of course his DD asked what you were talking about. That's what 4 year olds do - they want to be included . Next time you take her for a walk, make the conversation inclusive, just like you would if she was 40 and not 4. If anyone was being rude it was you.

It sounds to me as if you have a very "us" and "them" perspective on adults and children, OP. Perhaps this came from your parents, as they obviously held quite traditional views and felt that it was acceptable to say things to you as children that I'm sure they wouldn't have dreamt of saying to another adult.

If you want to have a private conversation with your DH, that's fair enough. Children don't have an automatic right to be included in every discussion. However, you need to have such conversations when the kids are not around. If you want to discuss stuff when they are around, go ahead, but be aware that they might want to join in and don't try to exclude them. If they ask what you're talking about, just explain it simply and briefly and then keep going with your conversation. It's an opportunity for them to learn about adult stuff - they might want to join in, but if they find it boring, they'll soon tune out and leave you to it.

The thing is it wasn't private, your partner demonstrated this. There was no reason for her not to know.

Honestly if I was your partner I'd be giving you the side eye. Behaviour like this can be heavily indicative of someone who wishes to exclude and show they are top of thr pack. To put the child in her place. Which sometimes is required but not in this scenario, not by a long shot.

I'd examine my motives if I was you, if you're jealous or competing with his four year old daughter, then you need to take a step back.

It seems like you have a belief about yourself that you have better manners than most people OP (based on your parents' values which you have adopted wholesale) and so you have interpreted that your SD was rude. Some posters are letting you know that they experience your actions as rude. I think a them and us approach is really unhelpful to step-parent relationships and if you could focus little bit more on the other person's perspective you would improve the relationship with your SD which sounds very positive in any case.

Poor little girl

4 year olds are very inquisitive and want to be included so I don't think she or her father are in the wrong on this one, next time id have private conversations in private. That's not a dig by the way but I think you are expecting too much from a very young child

YABU. You have a different parenting philosophy to your BF. He thinks the kids should be included in conversation, their curiosity encouraged, their questions prioritised etc. You think there should be more boundaries and respect etc. That's fine, but in this situation he is the parent and you are not. He is raising this child. You should take your cues from him instead of trying to overrule him with your personal family values about children and manners and privacy.

When you have kids, by all means debate these values with your partner. But for now, defer to his way of parenting.