To tackle the controversial topic of 'Jealous' SM's

[TooSassy]

So, I've been on this thread on and off for about 18 months. There are (sadly) only a few threads which haven't descended into criticism of the OP / judgemental comments. There is a consistent critical chain of commentary that appears across threads.

1. Were you/ are you the OW?
2. Why did you get together with a man who had DC's if this is your attitude?
3. You're not the parent, keep your nose out and let the parent parent.
4. How dare you detach and not parent enough, your poor SC's..
5. You sound jealous of your SC's, poor SC's.

So, here's my thinking. I love mumsnet. I have learned so much from people here and not just that, received a lot of support (back in the 'i have a new baby days' stands out). I think everyones perspectives are valued, I do listen and absorb all POV's as I think (the constructive) comments are so very helpful.

So with that, I want to start a few threads. To discuss the above comments that come out on these threads. And see if we can all better understand the thinking that makes people criticise, when in actual fact, we may just be reading a post about someone who is really struggling. Who needs help and is seeking advice.

I hope everyone treats this with the intent it's meant. To be a constructive conversation so we can all understand perspectives that are different to ours. So with that, I'll start.

And one other point. My dp has visibly aged since I met him - rapidly, not at a normal pace. This is indirectly my fault as the stress is caused by his exw refusing to accept my place in what she still considers their life!
Aside from wanted to get away from the drama I do sometimes think that if I just left him he himself would actually be better off because even though I have done nothing wrong his love for me is causing the drama which is in turn tainting that love.

mooncuplanding I wasn't suggesting you had instigating any drama. I just wonder if the drama comes from the dp's behaviour in the marriage and his behaviour since towards the exW. In my own experience my ex is a very abusive man who abused me sexually, physically and emotionally in the marriage and has continued to emotionally abuse me since. His new partner totally takes his side and encourages him to make numerous court applications that are totally unnecessary. He's been told he's wasting court time by judges but still the applications roll in. His new partner believes me to be a total witch and questions the children about me and what I spend my money on and is trying her best to alienate them from me. Unfortunately for her my eldest now hates her but plays nice when there as she's scared of her. My point being that from her side I am the problem and the causes of drama but the reality is that the drama is created and perpetuated by my abusive ex. I feel sorry for her as I expect she too is being abused by him. She was the OW and I hated her to begin with then realised that he's likely to treat her the same as me and therefore she has my sympathies.
I don't dispute that some exW's are batshit but I believe that most of the time there's a damn good reason for how they are behaving and that's usually how they are being treated by their ex.

Magda72 that's so sad. My ex has aged at least 10 years since he left. He did that within the first 3 years. He looks ill. He is not a happy man but the situation is of his own making.

@Magda72

I was making assumptions about our future based on my own experience

I totally understand this.

I think this is where so many get caught even if you have your own kids - you assume everyone will act like you did!

I agree. You can assume others will be reasonable because you are. I absolutely see how that could happen.

I was in the middle of drafting a post with similar comments.

I keep getting a black screen for some reason and only on this site.

@PerverseConverse that sounds like a horrible situation & you have my sympathies.

I agree that much of the time the drama of the marriage leaks into the divorce which can then leak into new relationships. We all have drama from marriage - some will be very serious like yours & others will be less so. Then there are people like me in the middle. My ex was not physically abusive but he was psychologically abusive (for eg I wasn't allowed wear certain clothes as they upset him!), is a white collar alcoholic & cheated twice that I know of. My point is that at some point as an ex we have to stop our part in perpetuating our drama if you see what I mean. I have drama from my marriage as does my ex. I've stopped mine. He tries to perpetuate his at times but in truth it has lessened over the years as I have just constantly refused to indulge it. I have honestly forgiven & moved on from what went on in my marriage & I can say hand on heart that any issue I may run into with my ex is due to his current behaviour.
On the flip side both my dp & his ex too have their own personal fall out/drama from their marriage. Dp has/is working on his but she is not. This is where problems lie. My dp's ex & yours (by the sounds of it) have not drawn a line under the marriage & the kids from that marriage are used as hooks to try & get attention.
I've known dp for over 4 years now & I feel confident in saying that the worst he did in his marriage was neglect his exw for work. He's not a drinker, a gambler, a womanizer but he does work way too hard. However theirs was a catch 22 situation as she didn't want to work but did want a good lifestyle (as do most of us). Instead of parking that & realizing that dp is a really good dad & exh (pays huge maintenance, buys all the extras for the kids, bought her a house, attends all school meetings & evenings) she focuses on what she perceives to be his past & ongoing neglect of her. She doesn't get that her happiness is not his responsibility & that when married he wasn't around because he was trying to single handedly support a family.
Fwiw I do fully get where you're coming from but I also think your ex is probably an exception. Don't get me wrong - there are many men like him, but there are plenty of men who aren't.

Magda

In my dp's case if he refuses to engage another drama kicks off about how he's neglecting his kids for eg. If he contacts the kids directly & bypasses the house phone his exw has been know to physically remove a mobile phone from her child's hand & take over the conversation.
If I don't turn up at events I don't care. If I do turn up at events I shouldn't be there.
If we take the kids on holidays together she kicks up about how she can't afford a holiday. If we go away by ourselves we're being selfish.
On & on it goes & that's only egs of the 'minor' stuff.

This must be tiresome...but learning to ignore is something he needs to do.

His kids are adults now

You said his kids are adults now. This degree of conflict or communication isnt needed.

Difficult people behave that way with those who let them get away with it or dont know how to deal with them. It's setting firm boundaries in place and not engaging if they aren't adhered to.

The drama is an interesting point and in my experience of my DH and his ex a lot of it stems from a lack of boundaries. DH feels totally at her mercy as she previously denied contact for 2 years after he left despite her having cheated. Normally people have times when they disagree or argue and eventually find their boundaries but he is terrified that if anything is said she'll simply stop contact or bad mouth him to DSS. She will lie, cheat and manipulate for financial gain as she really sees us as less than human. Naturally this creates drama and upset. I think she wants to recreate the dynamic of DH as her rescuer as she said he was in their relationship.

I don't dispute that some exW's are batshit but I believe that most of the time there's a damn good reason for how they are behaving and that's usually how they are being treated by their ex.

I know where you are coming from but unfortunately in this case, she genuinely is batshit.

I never knew women like this existed before I happened across her. DP probably winds her up even more because he has great capacity to ignore her drama, having been in a marriage with her where she was no different, hence the divorce instigated by him. And I guess because he does ignore her, it seems to rile her more because she gets no attention for her antics, so she then moves onto me, or my exh (!) or my employer. Basically anyone who will listen - I often get messages from her friends because I have blocked her on every known communication platform now!

I think every situation is different. I think I fell for the line that women would eventually do the right thing for their children and it is quite shocking to come across someone with so little regard for the wellbeing of their own children. And I think MN often holds this line too.

Hi @SandyY2K - I absolutely agree that my dp needs to deal with the drama & stop fueling it, but I also understand that this can be quite difficult to do because there are children involved.
The "kids are now adults" comment was in reference to my extended family member & not dp whose kids are all teens. 

The "kids are now adults" comment was in reference to my extended family member & not dp whose kids are all teens.

Ahhh. I see.

It's very sad when people can't move on with their lives.

think every situation is different. I think I fell for the line that women would eventually do the right thing for their children and it is quite shocking to come across someone with so little regard for the wellbeing of their own children. And I think MN often holds this line too.

Amen to this. A million times over.

Can I just say, that I am loving this thread. And all the different perspectives.

I think we can all agree that all situations when approaching ‘blended / potentially blended’ families can we so very unique. I hope, just hope that more compassion and help can be provided on threads (ignoring the odd obvious inflammatory one) with the view being, someone here is really struggling. How can we all help?

Haven’t read the latest posts. Very interesting points raised and a good discussion. Still feel a bit gutted for you @toosassy and @magda and others. It’s horrible when you put so much effort in and the problems are insurmountable.

Did my DP love me? That’s a really good question. I think he did, and then he changed, he felt his love for me meant he loved his kids less. So it became tainted. He couldn’t feel love for me as fully anymore as it was full of guilt.

I remember clearly one weekend some years ago when I said casually to him ‘I love you’ and he didn’t say it back. It was the same weekend that a situation with his DD1 exploded - she’d got into big trouble and lied about it to DP as she was angry at him. She blamed me for some of it too apparently. Although neither me or her parents were to blame in any way. He withdrew some of his affections. Partly because of defensiveness. The incident had exposed his facade of having a perfectly happy and functional separated first family, and he didn’t like me being close enough to know that.

I felt from then on, that there was a barrier between us. He knew, really, that there were dysfunctional dynamics, but ignored the effects. As his girls grew older and wanted their own lives, he missed them more and would increasingly do anything for them, indulging them more and more. I was just at home with him and therefore he didn’t have to make the effort.

He also got rewarded for showing less love for me by his (now 18+ adult) DDs. Unconsciously perhaps. In small ways like we went to the cinema for the first time in ages last year (he goes most weeks with his DDs). We dropped DSD off on the way, she complained that he hadn’t asked her first to the show and he apologized to her He only hugs his DDs when I’m there, never me. He agonized over their presents. I got tokens. He stopped wanting to go away with me, as they would complain.

It all erodes love over time.

There were several triggers for me. At first there were smaller ones involving his Ex. She had a key to the house! Boundary issues should have been a massive red flag, but DP really took on board these and they were resolved, temporarily. However later I realized that they were just pushed underground. His Ex still treats DP like a husband and will lean on him emotionally. He just doesn’t tell me.

One of the biggest was when I asked DSD to stop ignoring me and DP undermined me and sided with his DD without question. It had gone on for months and I was dealing with it in a good way, if by this stage a direct way. It made me realize that DP did not care about me and was too weak to stand up to her himself. The whole house was under an oppressive fog, and no one was functioning well. I knew then that for the sake of my family I had to give them a more healthy environment. It wasn’t just about my feelings, it was my responsibility as a parent to my younger kids.
@toosassy thank you, it means quite a lot to be able to share stuff and be actually listened to! I’ve accepted that this was all a mistake on my part, I should have left with the baby and run for the hills!
So sad your DP bought out his phone at the ONE time you needed to solidify your relationship. He needs a wake up call! It is only a few % of the time we need to have one to one fully present partners. Otherwise it’s like they are broadcasting that we are just the side support on dysfunctional first family show. That’s no way to live and our lives are too short.

Wow the visibly ageing, I see that too. DP was vivacious and dynamic when I met him. He’s very bright, strong physically and funny.

Het these last 3 years he’s looking tired, grey and even his conversation is more dull. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it’s with sadness for him I say it. I think his outlook has become smaller with all the bitching and drama. Al, the guilt piled on himthat he then takes out on me. It’s at the same time that our relationship slowly crumbled, I wish he could see the last year when we’ve decided to split, he admitted to me he’d had mental health problems. And yet he still responds to every complaint, every need from his DDs and Ex to the detriment of himself. When will he draw a line and say enough!

Apologies lack of grammar/word fails! Too tired to write properly...

The link I'm posting seems relevant to some posters who talk about how their DH/DP seems to say how high when their ex says jump. I've been separated from my stbexh for years now but this is something I found when I was dating my last ex. I could not understand how he could call his exW a dick but bend over backwards to meet her demands. He was too involved with her still in my view and she was causing him and us problems and their relationship was one of the reasons I ended ours. This explained their relationship dynamics to a T. It might be helpful to some of you.

pairedlife.com/advice/IsHeStillMarriedToHisEx

@TooSassy I haven't RTFT yet, but I am making my way through it. I just read your part about your DP getting upset while looking at photos of his kids stopping your time together, and I am so sorry to hear about the tough time you are going through. Your posts have made me think of the book The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman. I'm wondering if you have read it? From what you have said, it sounds like your love language is quality time, and you just aren't getting that from your DP.

Red n

bananas heartbreakingly sad reading your story. Thank you for sharing and I hope it has helped you in some way.

My DP/ EDP (really don’t know what to call him) has been in communication over the weekend and very clear about the fact that he loves me. He has heard me loud and clear. He IS prepared to parent as a team and if I say something is bothering me, tackle it. As a team.

I have said I still need time and space to process and think. So time will tell. I have just told him I exhausted by it all and he understands.

trying someonenin RL has also suggested that and I’m pretty sure I have it somewhere at home. I may well dig it out, thank you!

Hi Sassy, bananas and all... it sounds to me as though your DP’s are not emotionally ‘available’ enough to have proper relationships. I could not cope with a DP who could not spend a single evening focusing on me. I left a previous partner because he was so preoccupied with missing his dd who he saw quite a lot.

Am feeling fortunate re my DP, although there is dysfunction with his dd and her mum, there is not drama, DP is available and makes me a priority. Which means there is hope for us to tackle stuff as a team. Only then can relationships survive and thrive.

This thread is fab. I wonder if we could make it a stickie?

Oh wow so he’s missing you and is very serious about wanting you back? That’s something at least. Sad that it has to come from drastic action on your part, but good nonetheless.

Time will tell. Are there some clear things you’d like changed? It feels from your posts that you’ve lost your fun, light side and want it back? It would be great to refocus yourself on you.

@latent I think that’s true. Emotionally unavailable often, yet emotionally available for his Ex! I think because she demands it and when he doesn’t she tells him he’s doing nothing for his kids. He gets punished basically for being my DP and now internalizes that. Glad you have it better latent. It is possible! @magda the more I read of your situation the more I sympathize - it’s quite suffocating and destructive - the EWs hold on both her boys and your DP through them. I don’t know how you cope. It’s like you get your hopes raised and then dashed. Sorry it sounds horrible.

banana yes I am very clear on what needs to change. I am also very clear that it is no one else’s responsibility to make me happy. That responsibility falls on me alone.

And if I’m unhappy, then I need to fix that. How much he is able to come to table and fix elements of our relationship remains to be seen. But I agree it’s hugely positive. He’s at least prepared to work on it and I can potentially work with that. Plus it helps that love between us has never been the problem.

So I think there’s two things.

1. fixing the dynamic of us as a team
2. finding what makes me happy and working on that independently of him. He likewise needs to rediscover his zest for life outside of his situation.

I’m not making any rushed decisions. I’ll see what happens over the coming weeks.

@TooSassy, as this is hypothetical wedding scenario, I would like to tell you how my DH and I got married without my DSC.

Yes, we got married last year in May without our kids part our small wedding which only included handful of our close friends and family. Why kids were not part of it? My DH and I had only known each other for less than a year before we planned to get married and we both agreed that it might be too early for kids to be part of it. However, it was very saddening to have the DSC kept out of the wedding. Not to mention, my DH's ex (never married and relationship of over 12 years) was not supportive of my DH bringing another parental figure into her kids lives.
The very next day after the wedding we went to see the kids as they live with their mum in a different city and spent the whole day with them without telling that we had just got married a night before.
DSC and I get along very well. They are 10 (girl) and 12 (boy with autism) and honestly they are my world. There's a lot BS and toxic that comes from their mother and she treats DH and I like garbage (meaning she consider us as incompetent and irresponsible parents) which drives my DH nuts.
Anyway, coming back to wedding, we had a beautiful wedding with my DSC this year in August. We took them to Quebec city, Canada and a planned a beautiful wedding shoot and re did our vows just to include them and it was beautiful (just 4 of us and photographer that we hired). It was so emotional for my DSC.
If you are deciding to keep our DSC away from your hypothetical wedding for all the right reasons then please know that you're doing nothing wrong.
There have been times that I have felt that I can't take the stress being a step mum and just want to run away but I tell you truly that has never been because of my DSC but only and only cause of their Mother, my DH's ex.

How are things progressing now @toosassy?

@redbus there is a strong sense from your post that you and your DP are WE in relation to his Ex etc. That sounds key, for it not to divide you. His Ex can’t have been good for him if she was controlling whether you were there or not. It would have just been more insidious and less obvious.

@stepmum sounds like you had a lovely wedding and a great relationship with your DSCs.

I’ve learned this today Ferrero-Jesus. Too much step mumma hating. Oh if only the world was perfect.