To tackle the controversial topic of 'Jealous' SM's

[TooSassy]

So, I've been on this thread on and off for about 18 months. There are (sadly) only a few threads which haven't descended into criticism of the OP / judgemental comments. There is a consistent critical chain of commentary that appears across threads.

1. Were you/ are you the OW?
2. Why did you get together with a man who had DC's if this is your attitude?
3. You're not the parent, keep your nose out and let the parent parent.
4. How dare you detach and not parent enough, your poor SC's..
5. You sound jealous of your SC's, poor SC's.

So, here's my thinking. I love mumsnet. I have learned so much from people here and not just that, received a lot of support (back in the 'i have a new baby days' stands out). I think everyones perspectives are valued, I do listen and absorb all POV's as I think (the constructive) comments are so very helpful.

So with that, I want to start a few threads. To discuss the above comments that come out on these threads. And see if we can all better understand the thinking that makes people criticise, when in actual fact, we may just be reading a post about someone who is really struggling. Who needs help and is seeking advice.

I hope everyone treats this with the intent it's meant. To be a constructive conversation so we can all understand perspectives that are different to ours. So with that, I'll start.

You are all so so amazing! Thank you for your kind and understanding words, they mean the world. They make me believe that I am not a crazy, controlling monster who has no compassion. I have tried my absolute best for years and I’m just completely drained.

bananas my heart goes out to you reading that story. Because you’re right. We are able to compromise and put our DP’s first. All we want, on those rare occasions, is for the focus to be us. And the reality is that we are not asking for the world. We just want to feel special and important for a few hours/ days. I once took DP away to a stunning adults only spa for a weekend. Cost an absolute fortune but it was as the height of proceedings around contact. So I thought ‘we deserve the break’. After supper in the bar was an amazing pianist / singer, that’s when he chose to start looking at his phone and pictures sent through of kids. It ruined our whole evening. I was upset, asking could he not just leave it and be present with me. He accused me of controlling behaviours. Neither one of us is right or wrong, it is simply us wanting to feel, for 1% of the time, the most important person in their world.

I’ve come to the heartbreaking realisation that I simply don’t fulfil that role for my DP. The reasons are irrelevant now. But I have to make a decision and accept that if I continue that relationship it is on that basis. I’m not prepared to do that. I’d rather be single the rest of my life and by doing so, be the person who puts myself and my DC first. I can no longer wait for him to do it.

It’s funny actually. And banana this one is a question for you. If you now sit back and think, do you think your DP loved you?
I ask because I met a good friend a few days back and after a few drinks he just let loose. And made the bold statement: ‘he can’t do what you expect because he doesn’t love you. Because of that, He will never put your first. He cares for you, fancies you but above everything else, you are just extremely useful to him and you make his life a LOT easier. So he does what he needs to do once in a while to make you happy when you voice your unhappiness, and then he simply goes back to the world of him and the expectation that you will fall into place. But he will never make you happy because he simply doesn’t love you.’

I was stunned into silence (and skulled my martini pdq as I processed it). Now this person is a brilliant friend. He will be behind me 110% if I say my DP are getting back together but his words have been circulating in my head ever since...

Should a DP who truely loves you, be able to put aside their ‘dramas’ from time to time? And derive happiness from you, without the drama from the first family constantly circling in their minds?

Should a DP who truely loves you, be able to put aside their ‘dramas’ from time to time? And derive happiness from you, without the drama from the first family constantly circling in their minds?

Surely that’s a personality question? Different people react differently depending on their personalities, pressures at a given time, perceived importance of an issue.

You want full attention but he’s worrying about the children he hasn’t seen for 3 months and what is happening in their household. That would take up a lot of head space. It would be something you can’t necessarily put aside, even for a short time. Guilt is a dreadful emotion and pushes people to all sorts of out of character behaviour. So add guilt on top of worry and there’s really no space left for rational thinking.

I wasn't the OW, met DH after he'd split. Ex wife thoroughly nice person who has never caused any trouble, is kind to our DD. No court action, no solicitors involved in divorce (DIY divorce) financial settlements agreed without problems, residency agreed amicably, SC's lovely kids, never any trouble.
Despite my situation probably being the peachiest set up ever, being a step parent is still the hardest thing I have ever done!
What makes me laugh (in a hollow way) is when people on MN say 'you knew what you were getting into' - I so so didn't. I had no children of my own and had never been in a relationship with a man with children. I had zero idea what I was getting into. My previous relationships had not prepared me in the slightest.
I'm 15 years or so down the line now and I think we've been incredibly lucky.

I totally get where you friend is coming from & I have asked myself that same question a lot. Two things have kept me in the relationship.
When I told dp I really thought he needed professional help; that we were buckling under the strain of everything, he started seeing a counsellor. This led me to believe that the relationship was important to him & that he wanted to salvage it (dp is not a man who finds it easy to talk about his feelings)
Also, dp does make an effort with adult only time & after many a meal out being interrupted by phone calls/txts he now generally puts the phone away - he started doing this unprompted by me.
However despite both the above he still gets triggered, goes down the rabbit hole and often takes ages to come out & that's what I'm finding so hard at the moment. I know his heart is in the relationship but I'm not sure if it's enough.
People love in different ways - I know I'm an all in, will make you a priority type of lover. Maybe your dp just isn't able to love you in a whole hearted way at the moment?
I certainly know that if I hadn't done years of therapy with an excellent therapist I would not have been able to move forward into other relationships so easily.

socksortights - as an EX - your comments are red rag to a bull and as an SM I get it a little.

I get my DCS full on 24/7 but EX does not. I think so many SMs want their DPs to compartmentalise their lives in a way that is not humanly possible. You can not separate mine and their time, as if you stop being a parent when they are not their and to expect DPS to do that is unfair.

You are effectively asking your DP to say now and current DCs are more important than older DCs and I would respect / not be with my DP if he did that. i completely get that my DCs are more of my focus and priority than his - he has to sort their crises out and I sort mine out. However, i am aware that many of the solutions for mine involve him - looking after mine, so I can go to the gym, shopping, unexpected work crises. When I see the comments DP has to work and it is his contact day, I don't want to provide free childcare. i think his EX should just have them they are the parents, that makes me sad because DP does it for me - why can I not reciprocate?

Normal family life is never going to be "normal" family when SDCs are involved and some of our issues come from having to let go of that utopian ideal - because it simply does not and can not exist with out someone getting hurt.

ohreally great points. Thank you for that perspective.

magda I also tend to agree, my DP isn’t able to love me wholeheartedly for probably the reasons ohreally has said. If guilt and worry are perpetually there, it doesn’t leave much room or time for an easy situation which is ticking along (and fundamentally is with an adult who should be self sufficient as opposed to defenceless DC who are not). I think the problem is that when you have been stuck in this dynamic for years, you genuinely start to question whether this is because of the situation or whether this is the person. And the very real thing I have to look at is this: this is who my ExDP consistently shows me he is. If I somehow expect some miraculous change in personality then more fool me.

I don’t believe he will change. I don’t believe that the drama will ever lessen. I believe that when this drama is over it will be replaced with another.

Because he and his ex are so caught up in their negativity. And he just can’t see it. All his response is ‘this is for my DC’ and maybe as ohreally has said, his brain is so consumed with a whole host of very difficult emotions, it leaves no space for goodness and moving forward.

banana also, I hear you so loud and clear re your worry that this could break your ex.
What really has been the tipping point? And do you think you’ll have any regrets?

I read this really interesting article about how to cope when your relationship is in trouble. And it gave an exercise that should be done.

The red pill, blue pill exercise. I can give you one of two pills.
Blue pill - you’re still together and you’ve both worked hard on your issues. It may not be perfect but you are together and committed to working on it.
Red pill - you’ve broken up. But you have been able to skip the 6 months of heartbreak, pain and pining. You’re moving in and your new dynamic without your partner is working.

Which pill would you take?
I instantenously thought red.

Red (according to this psychologist) means you are ready to break up but fear of the unknown, pain etc is making you hold on.
Blue = you are committed and still believe there is enough in this relationship to work on.

Interesting huh?

@TooSassy - did you and dp spend much time together without/with kids? If I remember correctly you never moved in together?

We have never lived together. We had a mix of nights apart (so I had 121 time with my DC), nights together with no DC and nights/ time together with respective DC’s on both sides.

More recently I lowered the amount of time we have spent together massively, precisely because I am just so bored (sorry) being around him. And I hoped that removing myself would make him want to make the most of our evenings together, which to be fair, there has been a change in.

Why do you ask?

I was just wondering as dp & I do something similar. Dp is of the opinion that the time apart (while possibly necessary) is very bad for us as a couple but I feel it's often the only thing that preserves my sanity.
His counsellor also maintains it's not good - or at least that's what dp tells me! When we have these discussions he then accuses me of holding back & on & on it goes.

Because he and his ex are so caught up in their negativity. And he just can’t see it

Is there room for mediation or counselling? My ex has always refused counselling or mediation so we have 10 years post divorce of frustration and anger. I have learnt to manage him by not reacting but it bubbles beneath the surface for both of us. I have always felt an air-clearing would help us move forward for the sake of the children. He won’t - I assume because he knows he’s utterly unreasonable on many issues and would prefer not to face that. Instead, I did some serious therapy myself which helped put a lot into perspective and gave me the tools with which to handle him.

If you can get your partner into counselling with his ex or even just alone with a commitment to finding a way to move forwards, life might improve?

What a sad thread. It's highlighted the other side of things for me. One question I have though and apologies if it's been answered and I've missed it, but why are there so many court proceedings TooSassy ?

What makes me laugh (in a hollow way) is when people on MN say 'you knew what you were getting into' - I so so didn't. I had no children of my own and had never been in a relationship with a man with children. I had zero idea what I was getting into

So a genuine question here... from the age of 19/20 if I was asked out by a guy... as part of conversation couple of dates in, I'd ask about his family...siblings...
and if he had any kids, it was never going to be serious for me, as I didn't need that headache of an Ex permanently in my life.

I don't understand how you don't anticipate some 'baby mama drama' as they say.

Maybe I watched too many talk shows where this was an issue (Sally Jessy, Oprah, Ricky Lake and dare I add Jerry Springer) to know I'd not marry a man with kids.
Certainly not as young woman without kids and plenty options.

For a second marriage after you've had your own kids that's different.... but I know that his kids would be a priority over me...and I wouldn't want that.

In a second marriage or relationship..that's okay...because I have my own kids.

I think no one truly understand how we will experience a situation until we experience it ourselves. Gosh I now finally get it when my mum acted like she was mad when going through the menopause! So I don't think it is fair to say you knew what you were getting into getting with a man with children... to some extend.

I don't think you can emotionally fully prepared yourself for it but there have been some threads about SM appearing totally taken aback by outcomes that didn't take a genius to forsee. For instance, if you get with a man freshly separated, where there is a lot of unresolved hurt and financial issues, with children struggling to adjust, and you move in with the guy with your children within months and get pregnant shortly afterwards, how can you be totally surprised when things don't go smoothly.

One common factor of posts here when things go horribly wrong is a very early new pregnancy. I struggle to believe that all these pregnancies are unplanned. I think there is a likely ptoscrastination effect then, decisions taken over by the excitement of a new found love and blinkers to the situation surrounding it.

I am telling my kids that however much they suddenly become broody after a newish relationship, they will need to let their brain talk and give the relationship enough time to feel right in every way before considering it and that usually takes years rather than months let alone weeks even more so when there are children already in the picture.

One common factor of posts here when things go horribly wrong is a very early new pregnancy.

I agree with this. Blended families can be amazing but they take a lot of time and effort on all sides over several years to make them work. I’ve seen some go really well but adding a new baby into the mix too soon leads, IME, to bad outcomes. I think step children generally need a few years (not months) of stability before this kind of upheaval in their lives.

I agree and empathise with so much here. I am a SM to a 14yr old and have a 9 week old baby. The difference I've noticed is that BM can be pretty rubbish 90% of the time (horrible comments to DSS, inappropriate behaviour, abusive boyfs, no boundaries, dirty home, not buying essentials) but is seen as the victim in need of rescue and services just tell her how hard her life is and how great she is. As a SM (not OW) I'll step in and send her child home with food, buy his school shoes, wash his clothes etc and be what I would call a good parent most of the time. However one time he may be told no we can't buy you the latest games console this month, or actually we have an event to go to (we always arrange for him to come to regardless of whether it's my family or DH) and suddenly my name is muck. The bar feels so impossibly high as a SM with the BM and her family just waiting for a reason to criticise. Also everything becomes about DSS. Me and DH book something on a 'free' day and DSS tells BM. Oh suddenly all the dates get changed. I arrange to go out to a work do, Oh of course it's because I don't care. It's exhausting. DSS is amazing and I always try my best for him but it does grate on me that because of the drama from the ex, DH ends up constantly wrapped up in her world (it's not actually about DSS it's always her drama that then impacts DSS because of her bad decisions) and then has little energy left for our little DD. She gets to make all sorts of terrible life choices like not budgeting, storming out of her job etc but I don't get that choice because I have to be responsible for my DD and help with her DSS to. That's why SMs come across as jealous IMO. They end up having to watch issues develop from the sidelines whilst trying not to get involved..Then it all goes wrong and they have to be the bigger person and support DH and DSS. Of course I'm sure some BMs are amazing but sadly that isn't my situation.

The new baby comments are a bit harsh on sm. We have a baby who is beautiful and yes he was sort of planned ish. I was previously married for a very long time with no children and wasn't sure if children were something I wanted or was able to have. People are entitled to move on in a reasonable amount of time and also with second marriages as everyone is normally older the decision to have children of their own pressure is present earlier on.
I also think on the sm board generally there are a lot of assumptions about how much you have the children or that no maintenance is paid, despite in our situation that being 50% and well over the odds (CMS say should be zero due to the % of custody).
Honestly the kids are never really the issue it's the lack of co parenting between dp and his ex, which isn't always her fault to be fair. I also wish they would attend mediation and resolve all the hostility as it might be better in the long term for everyone involved.

I've not RTFT yet but I wanted to add my bit. I am a DSD with a great DSM. My parents blended the family pretty seamlessly from my pov as the youngest of 6 kids. However I think the elder children might feel differently.

I think the reason it worked in part is that there were no other parents to contend with. My mum was dead and had been for 3 years before DSM came on the scene and my step siblings dad had left when they were tiny and not ever really done anything since.

So my view of step families was really positive.

I'm now a step-mum. Wasn't OW. Have 2 DSC 50/50. I have DC x2. And what I've found hard is how much disruption their Mum can cause for my kids.

I really dislike her. My kids really dislike her and don't respect her. And they see her more than we do because they are all at school together. I hate that she has the "right" to have a go at/about my kids. It breeds so much resentment.

I hate that my DSC go back to her house and drop us in the shit because she loves anything she can use as a stick to best is with. DSS loves to please her. He's 9, so why wouldn't he want to please his mum?

But my DSC are delightful, easy, polite, fun kids. We like each other, I'm happy to spend time with them. I have changed their lives and mostly for the better. Like my DSM did for me. I have advocated hard for them. Harder than either of their parents. But I'm not passionate about them like I am with my kids.

My DC have an excellent step-dad in my DH, but there is a lot of conflict to do with teenage nightmare behaviors and respect. But there is love there too. He suffers the consequences of them having suffered abuse at the hands of their dad. They watch DH and his behavior like a hawk. It's totally unfair on him and he's starting CBT to help him cope.

I've thought about posting here but feel like I'd mostly get a kicking. Be told to leave etc

Last time i started a thread about really risky sexual behaviors at local schools a poster went through years of my posting history and came to some unpleasant conclusions. I got the thread deleted.

Thank you for this thread. I'll now go back and rtft.

I am not officially a SM, but my god the drama has been unbearable at times.

It wasn't that I wasn't prepared for him having children, I was fine with that. But I most definitely wasn't prepared for the level of nastiness from the exw. It has been relentless, shocking and utterly detrimental to the children she proclaims to care so much about (well she doesn't even bother with one of them now but that's a whole other story).

It was never about the children's best interests, it was about revenge and money. She is the one who shattered my illusions around 'motherhood'. I still can't believe someone can be so disgusting.

BUt then you have to deal with the fallout with the SDCs - they don't know whether to trust you, they don't want to see their mum 'hurting', they don't want the conflict, they want to test their dad's love for them after being told "he doesn't love them anymore". It is truly a sad situation.
There is no way on earth I could live in a truly blended family in this situation.

@SandyY2K - I'm in my 40's with 3 kids so technically I should have known better. However when I met dp we did the whole not meeting the kids for months thing which is what everyone advises. By that stage we had both fallen in love. On top of all that, as I mentioned previously, he never told me the extent of the issues with his ex - not because he was hiding anything but because he didn't want to appear as if he was badmouthing the mother of his children & also because she was calm at that point as she didn't realize he was seeing anyone.
So, what happen for me is that in the months before I met his kids & before I knew the extent of his ex's behaviour, I was making assumptions about our future based on my own experience, which was good enough boundaries in place with my exh, a fairly decent co parenting relationship, a nice civil relationship with his partner & 3 pretty well adjusted kids who got on with all 3 of the adults in their lives. Exh's dp was the ow & I had managed to deal with & get over that. Dp & his ex had split with no one involved on either side & in my naivety I thought the fall out from his divorce must be far less emotional than the fall out from mine so I couldn't see why his ex would take issue with me. I couldn't have been more wrong. Dp obviously knows his ex well, but even he was taken aback by the sheer rage & vitriol that erupted when he moved on.
I think this is where so many get caught even if you have your own kids - you assume everyone will act like you did!
I'm putting words in @Wallywobbles mouth now - but I'd imagine if I were her & I'd grown up in a positive step parenting environment I'd assume that being a step parent myself would be a (relatively) easy & positive thing.

As many on here have said the sdc themselves are rarely the problem, what is the problem is the fact that their presence allows an ex unlimited access to the new family dynamic. As an ex myself I don't abuse that & I respect the new family my exh & his dw have created & I stay out of it, but if it is abused it causes endless grief.
I don't dread my dsc as people but I do dread the drama that ensues every time they txt/call/are with us, & I'll be honest and say that it does become hard to see them positively sometimes. When they are with us the energy in the house totally shifts & becomes leaden & heavy & it affects everyone. This is one of the main reasons dp is maintaining a house in the town where his kids live so that he can maintain his relationship with them while minimizing it's impact on us & my dc.
Believe me when I say I like his kids & I truly wish it were different but I cannot ruin my own dcs weekends because of 3 teenagers who cannot/will not feel comfortable with us so long as they have to return to their dm on Sunday night.

This is why imo a lot of sms back away from dsc with controlling dms - it's not because we don't care about about them, but because we have to care about our own dc more & in doing so have to protect our own mh so we can be present for our own dc.

And @mooncuplanding - your last two paragraphs totally resonate with me. I know that dp & I will never blend for all those reasons & what you describe is exactly what dp's ex has said & done to their kids.
It's really very sad when it could all be so different.

Is the reason for the drama ever questioned? It seems that the DW is always deemed to be the instigator of drama but is this actually the case?

The drama is due to both sides not co parenting properly and having dealt with their anger over the past imo. Dp ex is angry and that spills over but equally dp could handle it better/differently and change the outcome. He engages with it 'for the children' when in reality a cold organised schedule of contact and communication would make everyone's lives easier including the children.

@peverseconverse

I can categorically state that I did nothing to instigate the vitriol and drama. Or at least nothing behaviourally and only by virtue of existing!

They had been divorced 2 years when I met him

It first started with a text 8 months into the relationship when I had met sdc’s once “ if you are going to be spending time with my children I want to meet you”

I thought “great” at the time. I am a mum too so thought it was an opportunity to establish ground rules. How wrong was I! She had no intention of meeting me, she cancelled 5 minutes before. She was just trying to intimidate me.

She has been utterly repulsive ever since, sabotaging every single occasion where the sdcs have been involved, sending the most repulsive texts directly to me, even making contact with my exh to try and tell him what a terrible person I am - oh and my favourite, contacting my employer telling them I’m bullying her son.

It was all about cash, she was / is totally reliant on DP for money, refuses to get a job and spends like a demon. She saw me as a threat because presumed I’d want to marry him. I can understand that even after all that’s gone on, but I won’t ever forget what she has done to those children.

I’ve never even met her in 5 years. So really she knows nothing about me.

I'm not saying dp's are blameless but I think the vast majority of them don't know how to handle the 'drama'.
In my dp's case if he refuses to engage another drama kicks off about how he's neglecting his kids for eg. If he contacts the kids directly & bypasses the house phone his exw has been know to physically remove a mobile phone from her child's hand & take over the conversation.
If I don't turn up at events I don't care. If I do turn up at events I shouldn't be there.
If we take the kids on holidays together she kicks up about how she can't afford a holiday. If we go away by ourselves we're being selfish.
On & on it goes & that's only egs of the 'minor' stuff.
My dp gets so bewildered by the constant onslaught of issues that he ends up not knowing which end is up!
Like @Spanglyprincess1 I would advocate a rock tight access schedule with minimum contact with the ex but this is much harder to do with teens.
I have another extended family member who was in a similar situation many, many years ago. It got so bad he just walked away believing if he removed himself fully then the drama would stop & the kids would not be caught in the middle of it all - he could literally not take anymore & was heartbroken seeing the kids stuck in the middle. I don't advocate this at all but I do understand how some dads (in these situations) reach breaking point. His kids are adults now & of course he has a very broken relationship with them but what they don't realize is that their mother is not a saint & their father is not a demon - & what they cannot see is that while their dad was indeed weak to walk away, their mum was making his life a living hell & he did what he thought was best at the time (there was very little support for dad's 25 years ago).