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Think I should leave

91 replies

AnnaKat75 · 15/10/2018 20:19

Long time lurker but first time poster so please be kind!
In brief, I'm married a year to a lovely man & fantastic father which is why I'm so hurt. He has 2 boys aged 13 & 17 & I have two girls aged 12 & 16. As per many on these threads the kids have no real issues with each other but are also not very bonded due to differing sexes, personalities & interests.
We've been together 4.5 years in total & have maintained two properties as his children live in another town with their dm. His boys don't come to mine/ours much as they have weekend activities. I don't go to his/ours much as so do my girls & we've always tried to make this as easy as we can for the children. Dh sees his boys eow & a night during the week - he travels to see them unless it's holiday time whereby they generally come here.
My problem is this. His exw is a sahm & dh pays huge maintenance, her mortgage, her car loan & all the extras for the boys. He has also taken sole responsibility for putting them through third level. This was all in place before I met him & that's fine.
My exh & I go splits on everything even though I'm the resident parent & that too is fine. I agreed to this in my divorce as I was desperate to divorce as my exh is a psychological bully & I really needed that divorce after him stalling & stalling for years.
I work in social services & about 18 months ago I resigned my extremely stressful job on doctors advice. My mother had passed away a few years ago & I think I had a delayed reaction which escalated due to work stress & I reached total burn out. Dh was in agreement with this & I thought no more about it as I had savings & an inheritance from my dm which I am using to support my children.
This money is now running out which I expected & I'm ok with that as it's given me great breathing space. However, I'm not ready to go back to work in that sector just yet. Dh knows this but expects me to sell my house (to release equity) & downsize as opposed to helping me out for a while.
We have always kept the majority of our finances separate because of the kids, but I am honestly bewildered that he won't help me, I'm his wife!
I have never asked him for a penny for my children & never would. I still have some money put aside for their education but I'm struggling day to day & will do so until I get my head/a job sorted.
Dh is not generally a mean man. He pays his share of bills, remembers his entire family's birthdays etc. His exw did a right job on him & now refuses point blank to get a job even though she was not awarded spousal maintenance & I know this has colored his attitude to "wives who don't pull their weight". However I feel I'm now being 'penalized' for the fall out from his last marriage.
Am I being unreasonable to expect my HUSBAND to give me some support just until I get properly back on my feet?
I honestly feel like leaving I'm so hurt by his stance & I know that I would never do same to him.
I'm not in the UK & I don't qualify for disability here as dh's salary & our assets (two houses) disqualifies me.

OP posts:
greenlanes · 16/10/2018 00:10

I realised after my divorce that my value to my then DH was that I was financially independent in a good professional job. I added shine to his idea of how "we" should look. Once I gave up work to look after our child - funnily enough his attitude very much changed. I wont go on about what has happened post divorce but it has not been pretty. I would very much look to secure your financial future. I do wonder if your current arrangement would stand in the event of divorce.

SandyY2K · 16/10/2018 01:34

I think you need to keep aside the issue with him paying the mortgage on his Ex wife's house.

That's the settlement they agreed on.

When people have been taken for a ride once...they become cautious.

He must be wealthy enough to be looking at paying university fees for his DSs.

They could get a larger loan based on their mother's income of zero, as it's based on household income.

The way you both live...separately.....marriage could have waited till his youngest turns 18.

Could you get a very basic job. Like an admin role with less stress?

AnnaKat75 · 16/10/2018 02:04

Hi @SandyY2K. I have no issue with him paying the mortgage on his exw's house. I never have. I mentioned it in the context that he is asking me to work or sell my house, things he was not prepared to ask of his exw but is prepared to ask of me, his wife. Emotionally it just feels unfair. Childish of me I know but I'm only human.

A year into the relationship I fell pregnant totally unexpectedly - my pill failed. I miscarried very early which at the time felt like it was for the best even though I was heartbroken (I hope no one will judge me on this). I don't know why I'm talking about this in this context but it's been on my mind the last few days how bad it would have been if I hadn't miscarried (which again feels crappy) - would I still have been expected to sell up or would I be treated better as the mother of his child? I bet I'd still have been asked to sell & like so many scenarios on here our child would have been second best.
He is well off to an extent but mainly because he works extremely hard. He takes his role as provider for his boys very seriously which is to be commended.
I think you're right in that we shouldn't have married. For the record he asked me, so at some point he obviously thought I was financially trustworthy. I feel now like I have made a massive, massive mistake.
Thank you all so much for your posts. I don't feel quite so alone or crazy.

OP posts:
SandyY2K · 16/10/2018 02:16

He would felt responsible for providing a roof over his DCs head...that's why he pays for her house.

It's for his kids...not her.

He doesnt feel the same responsibility for you.

My DB is in a bit of a similar situation ...except his ExW works...but he still pays the mortgage in full, which will be completed when youngest is 18.

He's remarried...but felt taken advantage of financially by his Ex and his 2nd wife is better financially in herself.

I can understand how you feel. ... but it's obvious he's not concerned about DCs inheritance and doesn't want to support 2 women.

He might think you'll not make effort to get a job if he's supporting you.

Just offering another perspective and how he may see out based on his previous marriage.

AnnaKat75 · 16/10/2018 02:28

I appreciate what you're saying. However in 4.5 years I have never taken a penny from him. I am just not like that. In 9 years I have never taken a penny from my exh - we go 50/50 on major expenses but I pay for my children - I get no weekly maintenance. I have always worked & have always supported myself.
My dh knows all of this & I certainly cannot spend the rest of my life having to prove I'm not like his exw.
I fully appreciate what he gives her is for his children but that does not negate his responsibility to me. He shouldn't have married me if he was going to see me as a burden. That's not what marriage is, at least it's not in my head & value system. He obviously feels very differently.

OP posts:
beingsunny · 16/10/2018 02:34

I think it's useful to know how long you have been not working for, and do you have a timeframe for returning?

Your DH has a large financial responsibility which he agreed with his EXW, and you keep comparing yourself to her. He isn't doing this for her, it's for his DC, he doesn't have the same responsibility to you as to her as you aren't raising his kids.

I don't mean that to sound harsh but his priorities financially are to his children and with university fees looming I'm not surprised he doesn't want to take from them to support you and your children instead.

You sound as though your relationship has always been one of a financially independent nature, always having your own homes which I understand given the circumstances but has set a status quo for financial responsibility.

Have you considered taking a basic admin job, it sounds as though your outgoings are fairly low having no mortgage.

AlmaGeddon · 16/10/2018 03:16

Think about how you see the future once the DCs have left Home. Presumably support for his ex will stop. Will you move in together and pool assets as you will be in one house, or are both houses kept for DCs inheritances, there is a lot to think about. Once you know what you hope for have a proper discussion with DH, probably several discussions are needed, but until you hear his point of view you are assuming things which might be the wrong assumptions.

AnnaKat75 · 16/10/2018 07:39

I don't think dh has any financial responsibility towards my children but he does towards me & vice versa. That's marriage. If dh couldn't work for a while for any reason I'd carry the can - it's called supporting each other & having each other's back. If I had savings in the bank & dh needed a loan I'd happily help as he's my husband!
I haven't worked for 18 months & have been living off savings & an inheritance for those 18 months. I haven't been living off dh.
All I have asked him for is 6 months breathing space & have told him I'll pay him back once I find a suitable job & he said no. That is what I'm finding so harsh.
I've been putting money away for the girls for education since they were tiny & have now topped that up with my mother's inheritance so he should have no worries there. All I'm asking for is a bit of assistance on the day to day stuff. I am well qualified & I am applying for jobs. What I don't want happening is me taking the wrong job out of desperation & ending up back where I was 18 months ago. I just want a little time to make sure I get the right fit.
I have no history of ever being financially dependent on anyone.
As I said in a precious post we had agreed to pool resources once the youngest turns 18 & goes to uni. We would then nominate a % of assets to go to each child if anything happened to either one of us. This would be based on our own assets. My children would get less but that's not a problem.
I'm now not sure that any pooling would be a good idea. As far as I'm concerned dh has shifted the goal posts. Or maybe he had different goal posts all along.

OP posts:
Cuttingthegrass · 16/10/2018 08:01

Hi OP. He may just be concerned as he’s worked out his finances based on you both remaining financially independent until DC aged 18 and, effectively, you are changing the goal posts with your request for assistance prior to DC aged 18. I think he’s just keeping the agreed boundaries in place.

Yes, he could perhaps be concerned this is blurring the agreement. You said you have always been financially independent and this was part of the attraction you think. Could you raise a mortgage /loan in your house instead of selling it. I’d you planned to pay him back this would be the same?

CraftyYankee · 16/10/2018 08:14

It sounds like you could use some time apart to see what you both value and prioritize.

Invoice him for the IT work you have done to give yourself a bit more buffer. Then tell him you feel emotionally unsupported and want him to go live in his house for a while as you consider the situation.

His response may tell you a lot about his priorities. Sadly he may be more upset about the invoicing and having to cough up ££ than losing your companionship.

averythinline · 16/10/2018 08:31

You have changed teh goal posts a bit though....I;m not saying you re wrong but you have altered the financial and support balance of teh relationship...
when you resigned did you have teh conversation about how long/ him supporting you when you had spent your money...
He has never had to support you before so it is a real change to suddenly expect him to support you now...
I'm not saying its a good thing but maybe you needed to have a clearer conversation about it as it sounds like expectations are not clear..
people often have different worldviews in money=emotion...look at any of the threads on present buying...

Maybe before burning your bridges with him compleetly try and see some counselling together to see if he can get what you are meaning as support ...and what sort of plan you have for going forward...
like you say why get married if he exoects you to live as a single parent...maybe you will have to tell him to move back to his for a while if he is stil not getting it..

I too would look at getting a simple job that covers your back even if part time - you have been out of teh work place 18months already and are looking for another 6 months -2 years is quite a time in most areas esp if it hasnt been training for something else..

swingofthings · 16/10/2018 08:37

Anna our situations are so similar it is uncanny. I've been where you are and totally understand how you feel. Your oh is reacting very similar to my oh and yes it's a lot to with the fact that one thing that made them fall in love with us is our independence not just because it meant not relying on them but also because of our strength of character.

18 months out of work to recover from a breakdown is quite a long time though and your oh is probably worried now that you won't go back to any activities. I assume you've done a lot of thinking during that time. What are your plans for the future? Have you discussed them with your oh? What does he think?

WhiteCat1704 · 16/10/2018 08:44

If I were you I would find a job-part time maybe? and divorce the husband..what you have is not a marriage anyway..why do you go halfs on dinners if he is a higher earner? it's just wrong...I would hate to be with a men like this.

AnnaKat75 · 16/10/2018 09:04

Hi @swingofthings. Thank you for your post. Do you mind if I ask how did you & your oh resolve things? Or did you resolve things?

18 months is a long time. I admit that. What's possibly not coming across in my posts is that I'm generally a very hard working & driven person & that this 18 months is the first time I have ever taken time off/put myself first since I was about 18. And even during those 18 months I did yoga teacher training. I did this mainly for my own personal development as I know teaching yoga won't pay the bills while I still have dependents. I just give this eg as I haven't spent the last 18 months wallowing. I do have some interviews lined up & hopefully one will be a good fit. If nothing comes of these then yes, I will have to look into something more basic & I know that.
Either way it does warrant a major discussion with dh because if he is always going to be this rigid about finances I would rather know now so I can decide what to do. I am also a little taken aback at his lack of empathy regarding mh issues which is another issue.

OP posts:
swingofthings · 16/10/2018 09:12

There isn't one definition of mariage. Of course in all marriage you are stored to support each other in need. What differs is when it is considered that a need has arisen.

The issue here is that OP considers that she needs 6 months of his support to get back on her feet after an 18 months break. Her oh is likely concerned that it isn't a temporary need for support any longer but a complete change to the foundation of their marriage of OP never goes back to work or opting to earn a lot less.

WhiteCat1704 · 16/10/2018 09:29

The issue here is that OP considers that she needs 6 months of his support to get back on her feet after an 18 months break. Her oh is likely concerned that it isn't a temporary need for support any longer but a complete change to the foundation of their marriage of OP never goes back to work or opting to earn a lot less.

Yes, well the landscape can change. You can't plan everything in life and if OP says she is struggling with MH I believe her. When you marry someone you should accept that they may not always be the way they are at this point in time. If your husband/wife gets ill and is unable to work are you going to abandon them because they changed too much and can't do for you what they used to? If yes why are you married? It's such a selfish approach....

swingofthings · 16/10/2018 09:50

I totally get you OP. I've gone to studying FT to working FT taking only a few months off each time I had my two children in jobs that have gradually become more pressurising as the workload and politics have increased.

Like you it got to the point where it became so overwhelming I dreamed of a break from it all mirecthsn anything.

Like you I'm guessing, I had the weight of responsibility since becoming an adult and envied those women who relied on their husbands to hold that weight. At the same I did like to be in a position of self reliance which I did feel proud of and thus is what I 'sold' to my OH and something he admired about me.

It of course makes it difficult when you suddenly reach the point of breakdown and you so desperately want to break free from that weight.

It is obvious you are hard working and dedicated. The issue is whether you are going to use this to go back to earning an good income or not.

I fell hard when I realised that I would not have the loving and rewarding relationship I have with my husband if I were to ask him to support me and my children because ultimately he would resent it. It upset me but I understood it though because I would feel the same the other way.

As said, it is likely that your oh response is not in relation to the potential need to support you for the next 6 months but the risk of setting precedence and supporting you and your kids for a much longer time. Indeed what will change in 6 months that hadn't changed in the last 18 months? Maybe he's seen how much happier you are now and therefore will not want to ever go back to the stress of work.

I think you oh would be much more supportive if he was reassured you had a genuine plan.

As said my OH would have been understanding although a bit aggrieved for a few months but would have lost compassion too after 18 months.

I am now better in myself because I have a plan and one I can take forward on my own without directly impacting on my OH. I've accepted that I will never have a life of leisure as I call it working very reduced hours or not at all. It's OK, many women feel just as we do, we are not alone.

However life will be much easier when the mortgage is paid, soon, and my children become independent themselves. The world is our oyster we just have to gang in a bit longer still.

I love my OH, he is an amazing companion and I know will always be with ne through ups and downs but he is not the type to be happy with the responsibility of supporting me to do what ultimately he would love to do himself.

KataraJean · 16/10/2018 11:58

Am I understanding this correctly?

You have been unwell and funded a period of time away from work to recover. You have married this man, who lives in your house around two thirds of the week or thereabouts and presumably contributes to bills (or just food?), and you have done freelance IT work for him without being paid?

You have asked for some support to get back on your feet workwise over a time period of six months, rather than dip into the savings you have for DC (which should be ear-marked for DC and held in trust for that purpose), or sell your house.

I think as you are married, you need to check your legal position. Does your house remain as your property because it was yours before you got married? Are the savings for DC clearly ear-marked for them (and would not be counted as joint assets)? In other words, are the things which were yours before the marriage still yours or would he have access to them in the case of divorce. That is the most important question before you decide what to do.

You have gone into this with a set of assumptions about sharing and mutual support which you have now found your DH does not share.

HeckyPeck · 16/10/2018 14:28

You have gone into this with a set of assumptions about sharing and mutual support which you have now found your DH does not share.

Absolutely this.

He was quite happy for you to work for him for free, but when you need his support he’s nowhere to be seen.

I agree with PPs who have said to invoice him for the IT work.

It’s not a partnership if one person gives and the other just takes.

MadameButterface · 16/10/2018 16:31

honestly I feel like I am taking crazy pills when I read things like "You have changed teh goal posts a bit though....I;m not saying you re wrong but you have altered the financial and support balance of teh relationship..."

marriage is a long haul thing, people get ill, they get old, things change. this is kind of covered in most marriage vow formats? I do wonder what people's view of marriage is when they come out with stuff like this, and whether their own vows had caveats about 'until death do us part, or you get ill or become disabled or something'

op has had a mental illness. mental illness is as real as physical illness. this attitude is cold af. it's not like she quit work to lie on a chaise longue eating bon bons.

Invoice him for the work you have done for him op. get legal advice on your financial situation. I totally get what you mean when you say " I don't think I'm loved for me, but rather as an approximation of me. I know he thinks he loves me - but he doesn't." you must feel very insulted that he just sees you as another copy of his ex wife, on the take - are you not an individual, is there nothing else that differentiates your relationship from theirs, why doesn't he love you for you rather than what you have etc etc

this realisation that the emotional side of your relationship is very much a one way street cannot be easy, but very often it can be that we know these things in our unconscious mind long before the realisation enters our consciousness. I wonder if the feeling of burnout that came over you in your career could possibly be connected with the fact that you are doing all of the giving in your domestic life. that feeling of running on empty and not having anything else to give and being constantly taken from with nothing given back in return that accompanies a career breakdown could also apply to this revelation that you have had about your marriage. so with that said, perhaps if you were to disengage and ask for some space and consider your options re a life without this man, you may find that your mental health improves, and you get your spark back. it may also follow that in turn he realises that he would miss more about you than your ability to be low maintenance, one would hope. So I would have a serious talk with him about separation. idk I could also be talking bollocks.

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 16/10/2018 17:17

I’d be inclined to ask directly for what you want.
E.g. I’d like 6 months or a year before going back to work, can you help support me in that time? I’d like to keep the house, it’s a valuable asset for us both.

At the moment, it’s a bit cat and mouse, he’s cautious, you want him to offer...

I’d keep any conversation about his Ex and kids out of it, and just focus on what you feel you need. The conversation can then start from there.

swingofthings · 16/10/2018 17:30

There is a big difference between suffering from delibitating mental health issues and not feel ready to go back to work. That's the issue. It sounds like OP's OH thinks that she'd be OK to return to work even if not the ideal position whereas OP's concerned of a relapse.

That's why they need to come up with a compromise. What if the perfect job never comes about? What if op goes back to work but can't cope?

SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad · 16/10/2018 19:40

I'll offer a male perspective on this. Not saying I'd handle this the same way he has, but I do kinda get where he's coming from.

Your husband has already been through a divorce that, by the sound of it, decimated him financially. He has had to fork out an enormous sum of money to buy a house for his ex-wife, and the effects of that on his own financial stability - and his ability to ensure that his kids have a secure financial future - has been profound and long-lasting. He is working very, very hard to recover the situation, so that he has financial security for himself, and can cover university costs for his kids.

That sort of experience stays with someone. Trust me. During my marriage, I supported my ex wife unquestioningly. She never particularly enjoyed work, whereas I worked hard and was successful. So when she chose to go part time before we ever had kids so she could spend more time with her family, I supported her and picked up the slack. When she wanted to give up work altogether, after we had kids, I supported that, because it was right for the kids and right for the woman I loved. When she didn't want to go back to work later, because of mental health issues, I supported that. I'd have loved the opportunities she had, to work less, and spend more time with the kids. But I did my bit and brought the money in, and was a hands-on dad every minute I got. And then when, eventually, after years of abuse and ultimately even violence from her, I left her - well, at that point, every one of those supportive decisions I'd made for her justified why she had to take an enormous settlement (because she would never earn much herself). She took every penny of equity that had built up during the entire marriage. And, even now, she barely makes any contribution to the costs of the kids, despite us having them 50/50. She remarried within months, and now all that equity she got is at risk of never being passed on to our children - if they get divorced, or if she pre-deceases her husband, that money may never reach the kids. So I'm feeling the pressure - my costs are through the roof, and I need to re-establish a solid financial future for my kids. And I'm doing it. But I'm doing it alone. The specifics are a little different to your husband, but I tell you that, because it may help you to understand that once someone has been taken to the cleaners like that, they often resolve to never, ever be in that position again. I know I have. My finances can't take another hit like that, and neither can my kids' futures. They come first. I'm sure it's the same for your husband.

He is still dealing with the fallout from his last marriage. Before you and he married, you agreed financial arrangements to last through until the kids were 18. Those arrangements make a lot of sense - they ensured that you were both able to provide for your respective kids, without the other putting that at risk again.

But now things have changed. That deal you made isn't holding any more. You chose to give up work, and have stayed out of work for 18 months. You're planning to stay out of work for another 6 months, and the way you talk about opportunities makes it clear that you will only go back to something that suits you. Having been out of work for such a long time, he must realise that the chances of you going back to the kind of role you had before are diminishing by the day. Skills fall out of date. It's asking an employer to take a major gamble on somebody who has taken such a long time out with mental health issues. You dont seem to have set out a clear plan for a return to work and to financial self-sufficiency. I appreciate that you've done a yoga course, and I can see why you'd suggest that shows you're not just doing nothing. But, to him, that could easily look like something that not only distracts you from getting back to where you were, but is actively moving you in a different direction, away from financial self-sufficiency.

I understand that you've been ill (which is why I hope I wouldn't handle this in quite the same way as he has). But, from where he is sitting, history is dangerously close to repeating itself. This impressive, self-sufficient, driven woman that he fell for, and made an agreement with that protected his kids, has shifted the goalposts. For understandable reasons. But reasons that still put everything he's working for at risk - his own financial future, and that of his kids. For a man who has been through a bruising divorce and been financially decimated previously, that's terrifying.

If you're asking him to support you, the very least you need to do is (a) set out a plan for getting yourself back to financial security, because without that then promises to repay later aren't worth much; and (b) really talk with him in a way that recognises the worries he will have, and figures out a way to ensure that he's provided for his kids first (before providing for you).

That probably sounds a bit harsh (I await a ritualistic flaming from Mumsnet users). I don't mean it to - I really do understand that you're not well, and that can happen to anyone. But I totally get why he's staring down the business end of every fear he will have about the future following his divorce. And my empathy for that is why I will probably never re-marry - and certainly not until my kids are adults!

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 16/10/2018 20:49

@slightlymisplacedad
Your post makes a lot of sense. Your marriage sounded abusive I’m really sorry that you had to go through that. Sounds awful. FWIW you sound like my DP (who delayed marrying me for the same reason however we have a special needs child now! So it’s a bit of a blow for me financially... Sad )

I can see that the OPs husband might be feeling the same, is that something that might ring true OP? That this is a good man who has been wrung dry financially and is understandably more cautious? You don’t have children together so in a sense you have to maintain some level of expectation that he might not fund not working?

KataraJean · 16/10/2018 20:53

Slightlymisplacedsingledad the OP did not ‘choose’ to give up work, she left a stressful job on medical advice.
She has done unpaid work for her husband, so he values her expertise but not enough to pay her?

With all due respect, the easy answer to the situation you describe in your post is not to get married again. Not taking the comforts and security of marriage (the DH here is living in the OP‘s house most of the time), and giving nothing back. The OP loses financial support from the state by being married. What exactly does marriage mean here?

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