Step parents and resident parents matter too !

[fontofnoknowledge]

Having read a number of step parenting threads over the last few weeks related to summer holiday 'issues' . Holidays, unexpected child care etc. I am completely staggered by the hypocrisy demonstrated by some posters against stepmothers in a way it is frowned on other boards.

I'll give an example.
Aibu/relationship post. (I'll précis) I have shacked up with a complete dickhead. He was a dickhead from day 1 but I thought he would change. He is being an unbelievably unsupportive and unengaged partner now I'm pregnant....

There will be loads of posts advising her to ltb but god forbid someone states the bloody obvious. 'Why did you choose to breed with a KNOWN dickhead.' ? . and they will be jumped on. ! 'Why bash someone while they are down' 'Not the babies fault' 'Baby didn't choose to be born'.. 'she needs support not castigation ' . and of course 'it's happened now, she needs to make the best of it for her child'.

Transfer this to 'step-parenting' and a any problem related to the juggling of time and step children. (Especially in the summer holidays) is met with 'you knew he had kids before you had them with him'. 'Should of thought about it before having more kids' (despite the fact that she hasn't had ANY kids, before) . Yes of course you as Step-mother should not expect to take a summer holiday unless you can afford to take ALL the children. Even if this means you yet no holiday nor your children, because your sc might be miffed. Even if they are having a couple of holidays with their dm and dm family. But no, Dsc feelings must always trump Step mothers needs and resident children.
As for a step mother expecting to spend her annual holiday with her DH/DP and not automatically subjugating herself so the Dscs can have one on one time with dad. (Screw the resident Dcs wanting 121 time)
it is looked upon as tantamount to the most selfish act imaginable.

Double standards ?

Perpetrating this myth that all children can be treated equally does no one any favours. Life is not 'fair'. Sometimes it can be worked quite well, sometimes it just can't. All parents (especially step parents) can do is to try and do their best, be kind, and have a fair stab at making it work.

Brilliant post Toosassy

TooSassy excellent points

I disagree tbh. I say that as an ex and a step mum.

I see more vitriol pointed against first wives and unreasonable and unfair accusations made by step mums than the other way around on here

Far too much defending of lousy fathers too.

What perplexes me is why people who aren't Step parents hang out on a board that i had (perhaps wrongly) assumed was for step-parents to offer advice to other step parents negotiating the world of non resident children/step children

I've found that step parents on this board often do not want to hear from stepchildren, which you would think would be a useful viewpoint to them. Funny that.

I would guess that is because the view of a step child is not that of a step parent and the board is called step-parenting. In fact it is the antithesis of step parenting because a step child has their own point of view and isn't the same at all as that of a parent.

I am a step child. I have plenty of gripes and complaints that I could write on here about my step father but I can't possibly understand my step fathers irritations and annoyances that I cause him. We have opposing view points. My view isn't wrong from the child pov. Just different.

Step parenting support should not be a carte Blanche to agree with everything a step parent says or does - but it should always come from a shared understanding and empathy of the unique place a step parent occupies within a family unit. A step child can't have this view.

That said. I think it would be a great idea to have a step child board where step children can have their voice heard and gain the same support I hope this place can (and often does) for step parents.

I've actually seen a lot of step kids grow up to be spoilt, entitled brats.

There's so much emphasis on VIP treatment - everyone else has to take a backseat! I'm a SM and I have step-parents, my dad went on to have my brother with my step mum. They would go on holiday, just the three of them, we would go on holiday with my mom, my step mum’s son would go on holiday with his dad, some years we all went together, some years we didn't. No shits were given, we were lucky enough to be able to go on holiday once a year does not stomp our feet because dad went on holiday and we have an enshrined right to go too.

I had the best childhood ever, even with my parents being separated. We didn't get two of everything, we didn't expect to get more of anything just because our parents had split.

I was speaking about a counsellor recently about the use of forums for people to seek what she provides without paying the fees. She said that in many ways people who come to posts on forum are similar to those who come to her. 80% of people come to her to be heard because they carry a weight of their shoulders and need to let it out and to validate the way they feel to feel better. She will listen to them but then explain that counselling is about looking at ways to do things differently to make them better.

She said that at that stage, half will not come back because they have no interest in working on themselves to understand others, let alone do something different. She says the other half are reluctant to engage in looking at solutions but will engage slowly. The first 20% will come to her to discuss solutions from the start.

She says that forums will attract more people who just want to be heard and gain sympathy for their situation, hence only wanting to hear from those in the same situation than theirs, because of the nature of the anonymity and the fact that posters are not professionals any way. This is also why it is common for posters to come and right a very long first post and then either not come back of only intermittently with little feedback.

My view is that it's a real pity because forums is the place where you should get a very wide range of experience and opinions, knowledge that anyone can then use for themselves.

Opinions are just that, opinions, not judgments. You can take them or leave them. Some might be able to be applied, some will not. It's ok to say 'thank you for your opinion, but I don't think it is the reason for the issues I am facing' rather than 'stop being judgmental and projecting'!

My experience is that when you get into a stalemate with others and frustration builds up, it's by trying to understand the other's perspective that things can get better.

The more I read posts and the more it confirms to me that no situation is where it is at because someone is right and the other(s) are wrong but because people have, based on their feelings, views, attitudes, concepts, principles etc... different perspectives of the exact same situation. Whether one is more 'right' than the other, it doesn't take away that it's a lot more about perception than reality.

Iswallowtoothpaste
I’m a stepchild too, and I didn’t think the world owed me either. Being a stepchild myself actually shaped my view on stepfamilies more than being a stepmum ever has, as I know it wasn’t all about me me me. People didn’t overcompensate or go out of their way to show I was more important than anyone else. Because I wasn’t.

Interesting views on here. I am a SM, and my ExH has a child with his girlfriend. We have one DS; my husband has a DD. Our families work in very different ways but perhaps that is because we are different people with different lives etc.
For example my DH and I try desperately hard to treat our two children as equals when they are here together and act as a family. So if he is working, I will end up with both children and vice versa but we don't begrudge and haven't thought about doing it any other way. It works for us and the children.
My ExH's girlfriend, although friendly to DS, wouldn't dream of doing "stepmum" stuff and has not considered that she should at all. This surprised me at first but they are not married and that's how they work it. It is also different because they have a DD so she is her focus. Whereas DH and I don't have our "own" iyswim.
Both children can drive me (and DH) round the effing bend but both are kind and loving and I love them both. Not equally, but in different ways. We tell them both off and praise both of them. It is not always easy, sometimes it is incredibly difficult and no I didn't really have any idea of all the baggage that would be there and had no idea what the reality would be but that is true of so many situations.
The drop in child maintenance albeit only a few pounds came as rather a petty shock and hurt as part of me felt that DS should come first and that the financial cost of another child shouldn't be felt by him. However, I can see why it is done but ExH didn't need to do it (enormous salary etc) he just did it because he could. Not going to whinge about financials however because DH and I are fine and I would consider us comfortable which I am now very grateful for.

Surely everyone has the right to ask for help?

Especially in situations involving children

Surely everyone too has the right to moan now and again - nobody can possibly predict how any situation is going to play out in real life. Getting it off your chest can be healthy and give you the energy to get going again and get on with it.

If someone is asking for help or just having a moan, it means that they are thinking of others and not themselves and want to get a situation right rather than thinking they are perfect. Even when having a rant shows you care enough about the situation and if you are a SP this by default means you care about your stepchildren.

As for judging someone who gets pregnant with a dickhead ... sometimes the sobriety of pregnancy can bring home the awful truth that was easy to bury beneath a bottle.

I don't agree that having a rant shows you care. People rant to get their own frustrations out of the way. It doesn't make others involved feel better. Nothing wrong with it though I'm a ranter myself! That doesn't mean though that you can rant but then get offended when people react to your rant and offer a different perspective.

mamnamiamore great post showing different perspectives from one situation.

That’s an interesting perspective swing and I can see how that makes complete sense. I for one would never allow a forum to replace in person, two way counselling.

I for one value the different perspectives on here. And more importantly the other forum I post on. And the most valuable advice I receive comes in the following forms.

1. Validation that it’s ok to feel whatever I may be feeling (yes, step parenting and all of this IS hard)
2. A reminder about what is important. The partnership with my DP. And a very valuable reminder that in amongst my struggling emotions are little people also struggling with theirs.
3. Open questions and opinions (without judgement).

I get perspective. My head is pulled out from my proverbial. And I am able to see the wood for the trees again. What I post on the other forum I would never post here. Not because I’m not prepared to work on myself, I am and I have to post divorce. And not because I’m not prepared to listen to different perspectives. Because that is exactly what I get on the other forum.
But not once have I had judgement or ‘you made your bed you lie in it convo’.

I’ve lost count of the amounts of threads on here where someone posts about struggling with the EW and it is a matter of posts before the inevitable ‘were you the OW?’ pops up. As if people are desperate to prove that these must be the circumstances to justify why an EW us behaving the way she is.

There seems to be little to no acknowledgement on these boards that some exes (male and female) are absolutely vengeful as a result of their ex moving on.

Speak to any barrister/ clerk or worse still senior family court judge about what they see in family courts as a result of two people battling it outnover contact. It is now a daily occurrence for the following allegations to be heard: historical DV allegations, extending very commonly now to rape. Child abuse allegations (including allegations that one party view child pornography). I was shocked when I was told this, but my barrister friend (who is now a judge) shrugged and said they are daily occurrences. He most extreme case she heard of was a father being accused of cannibalism. Yup.

They are all serious allegations, are taken seriously by the courts. Require investigations in full. Contact in the meantime can be stopped/ moved to supervised / curtailed to visiting contact only. AND they take months of investigations. That is resources of child services, police can get involved, Court time and time and money on the side of someone defending themselves against all of these.

The vast majority of allegations are not found, a lot of parents walk away and accept not seeing their DC as they simple don’t have the wherewithal or the funds or emotional energy to face an onslaught like this.

If you think what I’m saying is extreme, it’s not. It’s commonplace in the x amount of cases that end up in the courts. It’s why mandatory training is being carried out across the system for parental alienation. For professionals to spot the key signs early. The vast majority of parental alienations is carried out by women. Not men.

Those are the truths that no one discusses on here. And that plenty of SP’s are facing (to some mild to severe degree) in their lives.

@fontofnoknowledge I would guess that is because the view of a step child is not that of a step parent and the board is called step-parenting. In fact it is the antithesis of step parenting because a step child has their own point of view and isn't the same at all as that of a parent.

The board is called Step parenting NOT Step parents. See the difference? It is about step parenting not just exclusively for step parents. I read the adoption forum a fair bit to understand and be able to support a friend who has adopted. I rarely post as I am not able to offer suggestions for something I have no direct experience of.

However as a step child I DO have experience of step parenting. I have 3 VERY different experiences (as had more than 1 step parent growing up) I think it is a strength that as an adult I can come in and say " this is what it felt like" Sometimes that is what we as adults need to hear to be able to stop and think and step back.

For me having a broader perspective is a strength I don't post on the threads about a step mother finding it hard and doesn't feel like her dp supports her as how can I add and support that, this is something I do not have experience off.

However the posts about " why should my child not have the same as x when they get all that from their mother" "why should we bother taking them on holiday" " Why should I interact with the step children when my child is there" etc etc I DO have knowledge and understanding for. I know what it feels like to be the least favoured child by a step parent (my first step mother intently disliked me.. as an adult I understand this had to do with the fact she missed her daughter who lived with her father however as a child it was a deeply distressing time and it effected my relationship with my father I do not understand why he allowed that to happen?) I know what it feels like to have a step parent who just utterly accepted he had step children. (My children call this man grandad)

Surely that is a positive to bring to the board when discussing step parenting.

oh, this whole step parents debate riles me. I am a step parent, when DSS lived with his mum she was all I am his mum I have the final say you can't do this you can't do that, and rightly so she is his mum I am not,
however she was happy to drop him off with me on unplanned days when DH worked nights and she had plans. when I and DH married and DSS became problematic for her and she kicked him out (9 yrs old) at 10:30 at night he of course came to live here with his dad and me, now i am about to apply for parental responsibility and whenever DH is not home and DSS needs the doctor or a decision made at school her reply is well he lives with you now you decide or take him!

sometimes you just can't win or do right for doing wrong, SOME NOT ALL mothers (as well as fathers) can be difficult, yet others can be great, the same goes for step-parents, we thankfully have now reached a point where the three of us co-parent for DSS and have reached an understanding I am in no way trying to or will ever replace her but I care for DSS and love him as my own and only want what is best for him i will always consult her with regards to his welfare and wellbeing and would not make a decison regarding that without her and DH permission its taken a long road to get here but we eventually did, some step-parents don't give a shit however some like me do and we can cut a hard time

My partner hates mumsnet with a passion. He thinks some of the advice on here destroys my self confidence because I worry about it.
I value the other perspectives though and I think it helps me to be more considered.
I am a step child myself as well. I have now gone NC with my father and only think of my step father as my dad now.
I do think we all need a place to vent, just as other parents vent on the other boards.

@TooSassy

Amazing post and I can sadly say that's what my DH has suffered ... okay not too some of the extremes you have mentioned but his ex can be unbelievable at times. Her behaviour makes me speechless; it depresses me ... another persons behaviour has made me need to attend counselling to understand why another mother could hate someone more than she loves her own children. That's the reality of the truth.

I also hate reading well if you were the OW (which I wasn't) you deserve all the pain and suffering you are going through. Actually it makes me and my DH stronger.

Toosassy you are completely right in your post.

My dp's ex wife is like that. I was the first woman my dp has gone out with since their split 5 years ago (he was single for 3 years). She's never acknowledged me at all (spoke to/met/seen) which is fine of course, she doesn't have to and it's not something I would queue up for either. But her behaviour towards my dp has spoken volumes to me since she found out he had a girlfriend (we've been together 2 years now) where she has mainly used their son as a weapon and basically tried to tarnish him as a person, I assume to put me off. It appears to be a case of she doesn't want him but she clearly doesn't like him having someone else either.

When I first met his son she had a go at my dp for not telling her he had a girlfriend (I don't know the correct protocol for this because I assumed it was none of the ex partners business, especially in the circumstances where he hasn't just rushed from one unsuitable relationship to the next, he has remained single to properly move on in his head etc.)

Then his son, who was 6 at the time, said things like "you can't tell me what to do," which had clearly come from his mum/her family. My dp explained that as a grown up, I can, within reason tell him what to do.

It got worse when their divorce petition finally got going. They had started proceedings 2 years prior but it never went further than the initial petition. My dp explained that they had mutually agreed they should get divorced as they had, at that time, been split 2 years, but one thing or another happened and it just never got done. The original petition had nothing other than they had been split and living apart for 2 years (I saw it.) Then another 2 years on and he had been going out with me for a year, the divorce got put back on track. This time she sent another petition and wrote a great long assay on it basically accusing my dp of all sorts of abuse, emotionally and financially. My dp was so annoyed and it started a whole debate with him obviously refuting her claims against his name.

We went through a whole load of shit with that and I saw a number of bits of proof with showed her to be a liar (she did all their accounts for instance and was in charge of all their money.)

My dp sent a text with his annoyance (it was a normal reaction text, didn't have any threats or abuse in it, just "why have you said those things about me when you didn't say them before.." kind of thing) She used that to withhold him seeing their dc for 3 months until they could go to court to gain an access court order. That was bloody tough. She still tried to tarnish him to caffcass who themselves said any accusations of abuse are historical and very minor at that.

The whole thing was a complete farce from start to finish. She went from happily communicating and seeing my dp at pick up/drop offs to (as soon as he got a girlfriend) being difficult, making ludicrous accusations, trying to paint my dp as some sort of abusive bastard to the point that she requested separate entrances and waiting rooms at the court for the child access court hearing. My dp said on the rare occasion he is allowed to see a school play, when she sees him in the school hall she acts all frightened of him to put on a show for her friends who she has clearly made my dp out to be a right abusive bastard which has only come about since he has a girlfriend.

It can't even be said that I've stirred the pot because I've never so much as seen, spoken to or got involved with her. I've supported my dp but at the same time kept out of it. Part of my wonders if that annoys her more? I'm definitely not out to be having spats with someone's ex, but all this effort to tarnish his name has probably made her wonder why I haven't either dumped him or said something in defence to her?

The status quo now is someone else has to pick up his dc from her and she is keeping up this facade of being frightened by him. She wasn't that frightened of him when they were still sleeping together up to a year after their split.

Step mums can be awful I agree but so can first wives.

Then his son, who was 6 at the time, said things like "you can't tell me what to do," which had clearly come from his mum/her family

This could equally have come from another child at school/at a club along the lines of ‘she’s not your mum, she can’t tell you what to do’. Or a cousin. Or overheard out and about? Or overheard mum talking on the phone?

She's never acknowledged me at all...she had a go at my dp for not telling her he had a girlfriend...I don't know the correct protocol for this because I assumed it was none of the ex partners business

So your DP didn’t acknowledge you to her to you either? You are being somewhat disingenuous with the ‘I don’t know the correct protocol’. Of course it is none of the ex’s business, her ex can see who he wants and she gets no say in that but if that person is to be introduced to the child then acknowledging that person exists and being open about introductions to children (bearing in mind it is mum who will deal with any fall out, tears, upset, distress) is quite clearly ‘correct protocol’.

The ex is clearly being difficult but these things are rarely as one-sided as some would like to believe. Putting words in the ex’s mouth is a particular favourite when you clearly have no idea what the ex may or may not have said because you’re not there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

A lovely example from the early days of my separation was my 4 year old child having a bruise and scratches in the small of his back. It was really odd and he was unable to offer me an explanation. It would have been easy to accuse the ex (not least because I was scared he would accuse me) of some kind of abuse. And then the next school run, I witnessed said child and friends pulling holly leaves off the tree in the neighbouring garden and stuffing them down each other’s trousers! When you are stressed and no longer trust your co-parent, it is easy to assume the worst and go off on one as see it escalate.

ohreally and your response, in part is why I find this forum so very challenging. likeIdo has posted about a situation that is exceptionally challenging. Awful infact. Your response, in part is to pull her post apart.

1. why isn’t she being disingenuous when she say she isn’t aware of the protocol of introducing exes? I’m not aware of one. What did I do? I told my exH about my DP, told him he would be meeting the DC and offered to let him meet him. He declined. There are plenty of people in the other camp of my DC, my time with them, my business. Which is also very valid, especially if relations are not amicable.

2. you state that the words may not have come from the ex and that’s a valid point of view. They may not have done.

But. Do you have any idea about what it is like, to be with someone whose ex is doing such horrific things to your DP and as a result your DC?
Do you have any idea of the sheer volume of small comments from the DC that add up over time so that the only conclusion you start to come to is that someone is putting these words and comments into the head of the DC?

Do you have any perspective into what it is like knowing that allegations commenced (and some very extreme ones) as a result of you now being on the scene?

Unless you are in those shoes (and it isn’t far more commonplace than I think a lot of people are lead to believe) then you don’t have any idea.

Yes your perspective is massively valuable. Of course it is. But there is still an underlying tone of ‘you need perspective’. For the partners living through these nightmares with our DP’s, we don’t need perspective. We need support. Support that doesn’t even question that these extreme things are happening. Because they are.

The family courts do not even bat an eyelid of rape allegations. In contact arrangement battles, they are extremely commonplace and infact expected as the next step in escalations by lawyers.

If that doesn’t shock people it should.

Yes, been there, done that. Which is why I am single. Long story!

Unfortunately, part of the step parent rhetoric is to reject other possible viewpoints. You have also picked what you wanted to from my post and ignored what doesn’t suit your narrative. But I suspect we all do that!

@TooSassy - you are bang on in your second last post. My exh drives me insane at times but I have to say that we are the only ex couple I know of who have managed to divorce & stay divorced in a civilized manner.
I honestly think we underestimate the deep hurt & bitterness separation & divorce incur & sm's so often get totally blindsided by this - I know I did.
My exh's now wife was the ow but we've always managed to get on for the sake of the kids & so I was totally unprepared for the vitriol that got unleashed in my dp's exw when I came on the scene & I have found it really very hurtful & distressing & it has definitely taken it's toll on my relationship with dp & his kids.
Of course there are self serving step parents but I honestly feel that most people coming on here are genuinely bewildered by the situations they find themselves in & are really struggling. As such this board which should be supportive is often very cruel in it's treatment of sms in particular.
I am a dm & an sm so I have a lot of perspective but when I come on here with a sdc query I & my dp get flayed! So much so that I haven't been on in weeks. It's not that I expect everyone to agree with me - I don't - but the same few 'contributors' willfully misinterpret what I and many other sm's are saying & demonized our dp's as awful fathers never taking into consideration that while these men may not be perfect they are often the victims of very insidious parental alienation.
As parents and/or stepparents most of us are just trying our best & at the end of the day we're only human.
I'm sure there must be other sites out there that are a little more supportive.

Great post TooSassy

Ohreally
I wasn't aware there was a set protocol to be honest. Whatever accusations she throws at my dp, deep down she knows what kind of bloke he is. She knows he doesn't just rush into relationships and is very picky when he does and she knows he wouldn't be introducing his child to someone who a) he wasn't serious about and b) someone who wasn't suitable to be around his son. Everyone knows what kind of bloke he is, including her, so in this case I guess that is why he didn't need to acknowledge me to her? Plus saying "so your dp didn't acknowledge you to her either" is just playing into the whole "na na na na na you weren't even acknowledged " type thinking from first wives. I don't care! She has nothing to do with me and I'm certainly not out to point score.

You are right it could have come from someone else, just a coincidence I guess.

I'm not putting any words into anyone mouth. Everything thrown from her to my dp has been in the form of text messages or letter from her solicitor. She doesn't speak on the phone and my dp hasn't seen her in person for over 18 months. So everything she has said I have read with my own eyes. All her allegations have been refuted and proven to be false because my dp has kept everything, including all her texts from the past 5 years(!)

She makes my dp out to be some kind of controlling asshole but unfortunately the way she has acted and the things she has said and tried to do have proven it's actually her who is controlling, very controlling.

I'm not sure why ohreally that you are picking my post apart? Surely you can take each case on it's own platform rather than tarring everyone the same?

I'm also a first wife, my ex's girlfriend doesn't carry on in a bad way and neither do I. Not all step mums and first wives are evil cows and some are. I posted my story because in my case, his first wife is causing stress and acting in the way I described.

Plus I do have another view point; I'm a mum/first wife first so I have first hand perspective on what it's like to be the ex wife with the kids with my ex having a girlfriend.

"It's not that I expect everyone to agree with me - I don't - but the same few 'contributors' willfully misinterpret what I and many other sm's are saying & demonized our dp's as awful fathers never taking into consideration that while these men may not be perfect they are often the victims of very insidious parental alienation."

Yes to this!

So many men are victims of insidious parental alienation. They aren't all feckless fathers wanting little to do with their kids.

My dp had certain choices taken out of his hands. His ex moved away far enough so my dp can't pick him up from school. He misses so much of his dcs life and now there's a court order saying he can have him eow and 5 weeks of the 13 weeks holidays. Anything else is at her discretion so very selective and she can be cruel with it.

By cruel I mean she might say "ds has a small speaking part in assembling at 3pm, parents can go." So my dp will say yes, I'd love to see that. He then asks "is it ok if I take him to the park and to dinner after and drop him back after?" To be met with "no you can't."

So my dp would have to do a 90 mile round trip for a 10 minute assembly and he isn't allowed to take his son out after, even though there weren't any other plans.

Or another time that happened he was allowed to watch the play at 2.30pm and take him to dinner but there was a swimming lesson in between. My dp dared to ask if he could come and watch? "No you can't because it will break his routine."

This just doesn't happen in my world with my ex. My ex can be a right asshole to me sometimes but for the kids we have to show to be ok. Most mums would be glad to get a few hours to go off and do something for a few hours while the kids dad took him off for tea. But no it's all about alienating my dp for the sake of it.

Another one was the dsc had been invited to party in his class. Baring in mind they get invited to lots of parties in infant school. Well this party fell in the middle of the week sdc was with my dp where he was to collect him Boxing Day and drop him off New Year's Eve . She text to say he was invited blah blah and my dp said he had plans so on this occasion could they decline because he's at his dads (plus it's a 90 mile round trip.) She threw her toys out the pram, TOLD my dp he was going to the party because he needs to socialise with his school friends otherwise he will miss out and threatened to not drop dsc off on Boxing Day and withhold him until after the party, then he can come and collect him, so in other words miss half his week with him.

This is what my dp is dealing with.

This is not an example of all first wives behaviour but it's examples of my dp's first wife's behaviour.

I'm sure it could be picked apart with what's/buts/why's/ etc and in that case I can't really say much more can I. 🤷🏼‍♀️