Ow step mum- what's reasonable.

[Pogmella]

So STBXH's affair was discovered 4 months ago. He immediately moved in with OW. He lied about this for about 6 weeks. I confronted her in the street and she also lied.

It's obviously been a rocky road and I've done things I'm not proud of (confronting her and I went to the house to see if he was there).

He initially had no contact with DD2 but now has e.o weekend at his parents' and week night nursery pick ups depending on whether he is travelling for work.

He now wants DD to meet his... woman and to stay over there. He also wants to move to 50% residential stays.

This is obviously incredibly emotive for me on all levels so after some objective perspective from step mothers. What's reasonable?

I think DD is too young for 50% although I would be happy to discuss adding on Sunday nights or something. Also as he travels weekly it wouldn't be 50% on set days just as and when he could which I don't feel is ok but looking for objective views. I would consider planning out how we could move to closer to 50% by school age but tbh the travelling still sticks in my craw... DD has a right to see her father not his partner so if he's not even going to be there?!

I would like to meet the woman (I know her anyway as they were colleagues). I think our first meeting will likely be tense due to both our actions but so far she's only ever lied to me so very uncomfortable with her caring for DD. I want to find out what kind of relationship she wants with DD and feel like I can talk to her.

I'd like to see the house. This they're really unhappy about so I suspect is unreasonable but because there have been so many lies about it and I'm now banned from going there it feels bad for DD to stay there... I guess that's just my emotions not DD though.

I think now (4 months in) is too soon for DD to stay over with the woman there. I feel like he wants DD to adjust to a new partner and a new home simultaneously. If he had his own place I don't think I'd feel that. Any suggestion that their relationship is new/untested not very welcomed but it does feel very fast to me.

DD hasn't net her yet.

Go on- where am I out of line?! Maybe everywhere. If like to hear it from you not them

Oh thanks life I'm not feeling any vitriol though and I'd rather have the worst now when I can deal with it calmly and know what to anticipate.

I am emotionally damaged, severely. The affair happened a few months after my mum died so I was a complete wreck. That's in part their doing though, even if they don't see it that way, or don't want to because the guilt would eat them up too much...

Please try to stay unemotional for your DDs sake. It would also help her if you are subtlety able to let your daughter know you are ok about OW. A big ask, I realise under the circumstances, but it will save your daughter from conflicting loyalties.

God give the op a break she’s had her life turned upside down by her ex who has taken up house with ow and is expecting to play happy families. The fact he has zero contact for two weeks I would air on the side of caution.

The fact his work commitments means he is wanting 50/50 isn’t feasible. I think the contact you outlined is reasonable. It’s not down to ow to be undertaking care of your dd when he’s at work 1. She’s a stranger to her and should be introduced at an appropriate time 2. There relationship is in its early days, they may or not stand the test of time. My exs DW gets DS every other Friday but they have been together several years and are an established couple.
As a parent no one would leave their child with a stranger they didn’t know would they? (before anyone says nursery parents are normally introduced to staff)

Yeah Machine I'm worried about that. If she trots home and I like her hair or whatever and she pipes up 'OW did it!' I'm going to have to paint on a smile but that stuff will really hurt.

Yeah thanks Winter but STBXH and OW aren't going to give me a break and neither would a judge, I kind of want to hear the worst so I can prepare myself.

I've got an angry legion of family and friends telling me I'm doing great and He's an absolute joker, don't worry Interestingly his brother did similar 2 years ago (not auite as bad) and they've just split up today so I think they will go some distance... I'm not convinced OW will be picking DD up from school but I need to accept she might be a part of her life for another year or so probably.

I also agree with Life ignore Northern not all Ex’s are evil bitches but as people are well aware in the rest of mumsnet especially reading the OW threads things aren’t always rosey and northern your precious dp can also get up and walk out on you. You seemed rather smug about the fact he did that to an ex.

Op has lost her mother and later found out her dp was having an affair. I think the fact op has took the time to post says a lot because she wants to do the right thing otherwise she wouldn’t have seeked advice. Emotions are raw, high but look after yourself and your dd . You might have had much better support posting in chat.

@Winteriscoming18 - I haven’t said ‘all EW’s are evil’ bitches. And not sure how you read that I am smug that my OH left his wife? Of course he can leave me, just like I can leave him. Not sure what the point of your vitriol is?

My point is (and there’s no doubt the husband has acted appallingly). Do what’s best for the children.

Your post was uncalled Northern towards op she lost his mother and her dp ran off with someone of course her emotions are raw but saying how emotionally damaged EW to a woman who’s fresh in the throws of grieve and a break up. Do you even know how that feels to be in that place, the pain the uncertainty of things? It wasn’t helpful.

If OP said she was going to leave her child with a childminder but not bother to look at the house, she'd be flamed. Obviously she isn't leaving with a childminder but given her ex's behaviour so far I can completely understand doubting his judgement and thus wanting to meet his new partner and see the child's bedroom especially as she is only two. It's important for the child that everyone gets on and are seen to be getting on. If you can meet his new partner and put some of your issues to bed then I think that might be helpful. Good luck - this is so difficult and you sound like you are handling it well in very difficult circumstances.

@Winteriscining18 - if you read the posts the OP mentioned her mother had died well after my posts earlier today. And I never said the OP was emotionally damaged. I suggest you get your facts straight.

If you bother to read my posts you will see my posts are whats in the best interests of the children.

For the OP’s state of mind I don’t think it’s in her best interests to meet the OW or visit their home. What will that achieve apart from bring the OP more pain.

And yes I do know how it feels to be hurt - I have both been left and lost a parent thank you.

Hi, yeah I was just trying to explain why I am really emotional about it all. But if he takes me to court (as he threatened) they won't care that he had an affair or what was going on in my life around then so I do just want advice about whether I'm reasonable in not wanting 50:50.

I guess the house thing is because I don't trust them and I'm worried it's unsafe. I know there's an open fire and a dog. But if he's entitled to take her wherever anyway I guess I just need to suck it up. Plus she's 2, she can find danger most places...

OP it’s a terrible thing to do to someone and I am sure it must be very painful. Loosing a parent is also devastating.

Give it some time (everyone says this and you don’t believe it at the time) but time is a great healer and the pain will lessen.

If it goes to court the father will get contact. If you can agree it between uoublike adults it makes everyone’s life easier. And no the courts don’t care why you split up or who he’s with now. They just care about what’s best for children.

The point of my earlier posts is to say do what’s best for the kids and put your own feelings to one side.

I’ve known my DSC for 3.5 years and they get so upset when their mum bad mouths their dad and when she stops them seeing or speaking to him. The only people who really get hurt are the kids.

The 1st time I saw my OH’s EW she shouted over to my OH with the children next to her ‘f&ck off you piece of shit’. They’d been split up almost 5 years. Every time you bad mouth the dad you hurt the children who love him. Don’t be that woman. Hold your head up high.

Northern but he has contact. Overnights and as many visitations as he can manage. I'm not wanting to change that. I'm thinking more contact to the extent he wants is unlikely to get granted though. But I am happy to discuss middle ground. I want my daughter to have routine though.

OP not quite what you asked but I have a set of stock phrases I use whenever DD comes back fro being with her dad and OW - "that's nice" "oh really" "fancy that" whilst trying not to dwell on what she is saying.

There's much talk about how being a crap/shit husband doesnt make him a bad dad.

On the face of it maybe...but a good dad doesn't jeopardise the safety and security of his child's well being. Nor does he cause emotional hurt to the mother of his child...which could potentially impact on her parenting.

His infidelity is causing his DD to be subject of split custody... so the betrayal is not just towards the OP...it never is.

Infidelity never has a positive effect on the children concerned and I speak from first hand experience in that regard.

The only saving grace is that your DD is young enough to get through this without having terrible memories.

Stay strong...it's a difficult situation.

ohamI That is helpful! I go with 'oh wow!' A lot when she's babbling and not using real words

Well the questions to raise with Ex is that fixed contact is best (court with rule that - if he worked shifts it would work around that but still not as hoc) and that you won't be picking up the slack anymore so he will need to make alternative arrangements.

I would state that you understand that OW will be involved in DD care and you accept that but it's in DD best interests that it is integrated over at least a month.

Like I said nail him down over his annual leave, he's probably not realised that he won't be getting 2 weeks away with OW whilst you have DD for him... of course you could but then he needs to reciprocate!

Discuss alternate Christmas, Mother's Day, Father's Day, her birthday, your birthdays....

If he is very tricky give him enough rope and he'll hang himself.

Do your best to diffuse conflict because at the moment it's them versus the world and about winning rather than him seeing DD.

Offering 5 nights out of 14 plus the 4 weeks of his annual leave (or more if he has more AL) is 50:50!! Make the suggestion by email, keep it in writing. Decide how handovers will work.

I would explain you are only concerned about DDs safety at OW house ref, open fire, a dog that may be jealous but obviously you are sure that he had got those things covered.

Be utterly overly reasonable and just stand firm on what matters to you - like not having 50;50 on a weekly basis etc. If he is difficult it will reflect badly in him not you.

Contact between DD and his family to be done in his time and so on.

Op

Even if he moves house 29 times how will that damage a two year old? Really they just need love at this age.

Refusing to let his girlfriend meet your dd honestly makes you come across as bitter

The sooner you accept the new reality the happier you will be.

For example stating there’s a dog/open fire and you are worried - surely your ex is capable of managing danger?

I must say I agree with his stance that court might be necessary.

You can’t go dictating like this. A court order would completely remove the power you have.

He left your marriage and not his daughter.

I do mean this kindly.

It’s not divorce that harms children it’s the war of their parents afterwards

Random I already suggested 50:50 across the year and he threw it out. He doesn't want DD having one base home (mine) and one she visits. He wants her to have two full homes was how he put it. It was just our 1st discussion so we could revisit but fundamentally we're at loggerheads because I want her to have a base, and due to his travel I think I'm better placed to provide.

Op I think you know some of it is unreasonable like wanting to see the house. However I do think that other things you are being fair and your ex is being a twat.

Courts will start with 50/50 as custody, however they will expect it to be a fixed arrangement and only if in the interest of the child. Irrespective of it being only 4 months after a separation no court will grant 50/50 on an as and when basis.

Re it being too soon to meet his girlfriend, I agree. Far too soon. Your dd is still adjusting to you being separated and to introduce his new woman is unfair on her. I would expect a minimum of 6 months. Like you say if the split then dd has to deal with the trauma all over again. He has a responsibility to ensure that this relationship is long term.

Well he's being a prat then isn't he!!

"That isn't in DD best interests and no court will give you ad hoc 50:50"

OP.. I would also say at 2 overnights during the week on ad hoc basis sounds a bad idea. She needs routine and to feel secure in her home.
If he wants more overnight, maybe every Friday night... Then you pick up Saturday morning one weekend and then he keeps her until Sunday evening the next weekend. That way he gets extra and you still get daytime time with her?

I was the ow, but our affair ended as we wanted to or felt we should try to work things out with our exs for the childrens sake. We left our spouses without knowing the other had then reconnected. Still not great or ideal... We lived apart for two yrs and it was 18 months before we met each others children and they were teens... I can imagine you must be feeling very protective of your dd, having to cope with all this change and the ow so quickly.
You can ask ex to take it slowly and hope he listens

Op works full time!!! She needs a full weekend with DD too else how can she ever go away etc??

Quite I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the moving, I do think a lot of moves in quick succession would unsettle her. She's just got used to visits at his parents So soon that will change to visits at their house, if their relationship ended at 6 months that would be 3 big changes for her care in 6 months. I think she'd find it unsettling, although yes I suppose no real lasting harm it's something I'd like to avoid.

I haven't refused to let them meet. We agreed both of us it was too soon at the start and we'd discuss When and how in the new year, which is where we are now. I think it's worth noting it's not just 'meeting' but moving in with 50:50 He's asking as he's moved in so fast. She'll be a big part of DDs life right away and they've only been together 4 months.

It isn't about power. To be honest I'm not too worried if he does go to court as I doubt he's get what he wants and even a court order of 50% would mean he couldn't threaten to 'take her off me' anymore.

How long does it take to go to court?

The thing with Friday is that I think he'll say he can't ever go out on Friday night if we agree that (and suggest I am trying to go out every Friday night no doubt)