Admitting defeat, has anyone given up?

[drfostersbra]

I didn't really know what I was letting myself in for all those years ago.
It's not DSD, she is just a child, a product of her upbringing and environment.
All the usual step parenting irks are defeating me. Not feeling comfortable in my own home/ feeling in the background/ a spare part/ at odds with DH's parenting style/ tired of arguing with him over the impact he and her have on me.
ANYWAY every time I think of cutting loose I feel a sense of relief.
Is that a reliable reason the hit the road?
I have a nearly 1 year old with him and I do love him but I keep thinking "it will only get worse" in my head.
It's like we're already separating before we actually have. Separating in terms of casual disrespect between us all becoming the norm.

Is giving up as liberating as it feels it might be?

Thanks for reading.

I expect him to help provide for her, so why the fk wouldn't he be allowed to take a positive role in her life?!
Just a comment on this. You expect him to provide for her. Many SM make it very clear that they don't believe that they should do so at all. Indeed, legally, resident parent's partner are expected to support their step-children, non-resident's partners are not.

However, you posting as a resident parent confirms my point. The issue is not about disciplining vs not disciplining, it's about being on the same page between the couple, and clearly, in some cases, not only it isn't the case, but views are very much opposite.

I think we are all in agreement that when it gets to that, it's very hard to move forward, especially when the children are still young so there are many years more to go. It therefore comes back to the utter importance of getting to know the children and how they are being disciplined first before deciding whether there is a relationship to take forward.

I just cannot believe the behaviour of some parents & kids.
Totally agree with that, but then I wouldn't commit to someone, maybe not even a friend, who I thought was raising their children to accept appalling behaviour.

swing you REALLY think your sm wanting basic manners out of you was too much to ask?
I had basic manners, they were just too basic for her! No issue with anyone else, not my parents, not my babysitter, not my teachers, just her who had much higher expectations. I won't bore you with the hard time she gave me almost every meals for months just because she didn't like how I was holding my fork and knife and made a point of telling me that I was embarrassing her!

Swing, I think where some people get caught (myself included) is that your partner may parent along the same lines as you but their ex may not. That's where I find myself.
I'm not sure if I said it here or on another post but dps greatest regret is that he had kids with his ex - not because he regrets his kids, but because he is now stuck in a situation where he feels his parenting is constantly compromised by her. It's possible that she feels similar & that's the really sad thing; they are two people who should have thought twice & should never have had kids together as they are compatible now on no level & it's making coparenting really, really hard. They even disagree on stuff like orthodontistry - dp is all for it, ex isn't.
Dp & I agree on my parenting style & he parents similarly when he has his kids but he is fully aware that his ex, being the RP, holds the greatest sway. He gets on with his kids of course because their his kids, but try as I might I can't establish a close relationship with them as they and I (and my kids) are poles apart regarding everything. My son who generally gets on with everyone & who makes huge efforts with them said yesterday that he's exhausted by trying to get on with them & that he'd like to go to his dads when next they're up! How to I explain that to dp?I get on fantastically with dps nieces & nephews who are parented very like mine.
You make a great point but I feel that I am with someone who parents like me but the factor that no one can control is the exs parenting & so we are where we are.

But swing i dont think thats the situation here at all. Magbe your sm had mad hugh standards i think a lot of us just want basic please and thank yous!

The point is that she thought her expectations were reasonable too. This is just one example I remember, but there were more. I do recall that she complained about me not showing her enough gratefulness. She was probably right, but the reality is that she always made me feel on edge as I felt that my actions, words, attitude were constantly watched and then criticized. She shattered my confidence and as a result, I got to dislike her more and more. At that point, I only said hello, thank you etc... when I really had to and I'm sure with a tone in my voice that made it very clear I didn't mean it.

All this I wasn't self aware at the time, but now I can look back and see how self-conscious I had become because she made me feel that I wasn't lovable. Inevitably, I wished her out of my life and although I never said it to her verbally, I can only assume she could tell from my behaviour, which then only prompted her to complain to my dad about me.

It became a vicious circle and I can't help wondering whether this is a common theme and the reason why dads tend to seem to support their kids rather than their partner.

I dont think the dads support the kids behaviour i think most of them probably including yours just accept shitty behaviour because they don't actually parent in their time they are a friend etc. I think a lot of parents allow shitty behaviour because they split up and obviously a child from a "broken home" is incapable of behaving

Its all to do with guilt in my opinion

And im sorry to say it but i would complain about that behaviour too! I wouldn't be happy if my child treated my partner like that so id expect the same the other way around.

Swing, what you describe is a women who sounds like she was deeply unhappy in herself. In therapeutic terms one of the prominent indicators of internal distress is that tendency towards high expectations & control. I'm wondering if even if you had been her biological child (using term to differentiate - no one need go mad) would she have been the same?
I hope you don't mind me asking but is she still the same now & does she ever comment on her past behaviour to you?
Off topic I know but I am genuinely curious.

This exactly:

i think most of them probably including yours just accept shitty behaviour because they don't actually parent in their time they are a friend etc. I think a lot of parents allow shitty behaviour

A lot of NRP’s don’t want to spend the time they have doing the “tough” parts of parenting. They don’t want to be the disciplinarian.

It’s not that they always agree with behaviour - they just don’t want to pull the child up on it, especially when the relationship between them and their Ex is strained.

We see references to FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) in so many other threads - especially Relationships- but my goodness it’s written all over so many experiences of NRP’s.

There’s another thread on this forum right now that has that written all over it from the NRP.

Swing, I think where some people get caught (myself included) is that your partner may parent along the same lines as you but their ex may not. That's where I find myself.
Yes, that's the second hurdle! At least you can have consistency within your household and leave your OH to deal with the ex, after all, he is the one who picked her!

I dont think the dads support the kids behaviour i think most of them probably including yours just accept shitty behaviour because they don't actually parent in their time they are a friend etc. I think a lot of parents allow shitty behaviour because they split up and obviously a child from a "broken home" is incapable of behaving
My dad parented me for 7 years before he met my SM and not once were there any problems. Before meeting her, he was in a relationship with a woman for two years and we got along great and she thought I was lovely. Teachers reported that my behaviour was excellent (besides a bit too much talking) and I developed a very strong caring relationship with my childminder who thought I was lovely, so my behaviour can't have been that bad! My parents divorced when I was 2yo and my mum left my dad, so no, definitely no guilt there!

One question raised that hasn't been responded to is why if your OH disciplining ways are so awful did you decide to share your life with him and his kids. Honest question because I definitely know I wouldn't have taken a relationship further with such a man, so genuinely curious.

Maybe she thought their parenting was in line with each other's - but now due to other factors he's choosing to parent in line with his ex?
And yes, my dp is the one who chose his ex - still the one thing about him that baffles me 😂!

Swing you indees describe an unhappy women as your SM. The question you need to ask yourself is why has your father picked her if SHE was really that bad...Maybe he loved her and she made him happy? Maybe he made her happy and that's why she stayed regardless of you?
You say you disliked her as she "shattered" your confidence - that I find very hard to believe...you get your confidence from your parents first and some women you didn't even like couldn't have influenced you to such extent. And again..where was your father and mother when she was doing that?

My mother sounds a lot like your SM actually..Difficult people exist..shit parents and step parents exist but so do entitled, spoiled children who can't accept their parent has a right to a life and love post divorce.

I'm sorry your father and SM are separated but you say the "tension" was too much..I though you are describing events from 30years ago..had that dynamic gone on when you moved out and got your own life?

My SD a has been horrid to me (and both her parents) but I can safely say I have never shattered her confidence..All I ever tried to be is supportive...Our issues started after I had a baby and she moved in with us ft. Looking back she couldn't handle that some of her dads attention was elsewhere as our baby was very full on or maybe it's just a bad case of a spoiled teenage girl... Who knows..

That is a very good question and to be fair, this probably isn't so much relevant to the situation as probably not so common but for info, my dad had three failed marriages behind him, and yet desperately wanted to be in a relationship. He tended to fall in love quickly with nice looking women. My SM was very young (22) and had a 4yo from a one night stand. She came from a very traditional family and so was under pressure to find a husband and father to her DD. I think I'd hardly met her once (or did I?) before they were married. So yes, my dad definitely made a big error there (well, looking back, but as it happens, we are now all quite happy 40 years later!).

As said before, my SM and I have made amends, which happened to be when I became a mum too. We talked a bit about the past, although I'm not too keen on thinking back to that time, but she's spoken quite a bit with my OH and she told him that looking back, she should have been much more laidback and just enjoyed my presence, focusing on the positive rather than being annoyed and anxious about me. It is right that she was very unhappy and suffered from depression for many years during her marriage. I think like many, she'd imagine that she would marry my dad who would put her first and love her DD as much as any dad, and that I would be nothing more than a distraction every other week-end. She didn't expect that I would actually have a large place in my dad's life.

Whitecat, they separated and got back together I think after 4 or 5 months. I totally agree with you that there are difficult people all around and spoiled children, but again, I think you can spot these kids a mile ahead, so long before you would commit to their parents. In your case, if your SD has been horrid to everyone, then clearly the issue is not you alone, but I am a strong believer, after having worked many years with children who were taken away from their parents, that a vast majority of disruptive kids are kids who are just very lost and confused.

Maybe she thought their parenting was in line with each other's -
Clearly in my case, she didn't get the chance to really consider it as she'd hardly met me, but I struggle to see how this could be the outcome if the couple had given enough time to get to know the children properly and discussed discipline, values, principles etc... Surely it then becomes evident?

The only reason why I am posting all this is because my relationship with my SM had a huge impact on me as a kid and when we both look back, it seems that it was all wasted. Her marriage with my dad was tainted by this conflict, I hated her and she was unhappy when actually, I do believe (and it would seem so does she now) that had she not been so hang up on my behaviour and place in the family, we could have got along great as we do now.

I am only playing devils' advocate if bringing another perspective can help. I expect it won't in most cases, but you never know!

accept that her and I are incredibly different in our views and interests and respect those differences in fact I admire a lot about her

Reading this thread and especially this line has been extremely helpful to me. My DSCs rarely see their DM these days and have lived with us full time for the past 18 months. Recently I've been struggling with the way my DH and DSC's worlds revolve around elite sport and winning competitions and tournaments - training every single day, constantly talking about the training - which means we very, very rarely do days out together or even just watch films or go for a walk. It's not a familiar world to me. My DSCs are even competitive with each other and don't get on well. This thread and comment has given me some perspective and perhaps I will just accept that the dynamics and interests are very different to me and my own older DCs and I should leave them to it and celebrate the differences.

One question raised that hasn't been responded to is why if your OH disciplining ways are so awful did you decide to share your life with him and his kids. Honest question because I definitely know I wouldn't have taken a relationship further with such a man, so genuinely curious

Because thats not what you see is it when you meet someone... and if (like is highly reccomended on mn) you wait like a year to meet the kids, by the time yoh see the discipline or lack of it, youre in a loving commited relationship.

HelloSquirrels, I think you have summed when the problem lies. It's not a criticisism at all, I understand that when you first encounter life with someone with children from first time, you can't foresee the issues you need to take into consideration before taking things forward, but I do think that ultimately, the problem is with committing to a relationship without first consider whether you are prepared to take on the kids with the partner.

It's interesting what you say about waiting a year to meet the kids. I understand why parents would want to wait, not exposing kids to an array of partners that might not last etc..., however, OH and I agreed that it was more important to be sure that it would work with the kids before taking things further. I was lucky that my kids wanted me to meet someone, so I knew they would take the news well. I'd been single for 5 years and I knew what I was looking for, so when I met OH, I knew the chances of us making it long term were high.

He met my kids only 3 weeks after we met and stayed the night at mine because I wanted him to see life with my kids as it was normally. I wanted him to see the mess, the madness rush of baths, and bedtime stories, and getting them to sleep, and dealing with them getting up in the morning. It was essential for me that he witnessed how I raised my kids on a day to day basis, and that he was prepared to consider entering the madness as it was.

However, despite meeting early, we didn't move in together for 18 months because we needed time to adjust to the changes, and of course, the first 6 months were still full of challenges in terms of compromises.

I think that waiting too long to meet the kids is dangerous because by the time you are in love and committed, you are much more likely to ignore the issues that come about and assuming that they can be fixed later.

swing youre right i think because chances are i would not have continued my relationship if i knew then what i know now.

Things are fine now mostly but we've bewn through a lot of shit to get there.

If a step mum posted theyd met their step kids after 3 weeks on here they would have the absolute shit ripped out of them.

I do think that ultimately, the problem is with committing to a relationship without first consider whether you are prepared to take on the kids with the partner

But even if you do all you can to prepare, things change. I'd previously been a lodger in a household with a tween and a teenager so despite having no DC of my own I thought I had a good idea what I was getting into. I met DH when his kids were aged between 7-13 and we all got on really well for the first three years or so. You naively assume that if you treat people well they'll have no reason to treat you badly, however when people turn against you for genuinely no reason other than their own issues what are you supposed to do? You're completely invested in your relationship with your DG/DP by then and it's not easy to turn your life upside down when you have that voice in the back of your head telling you that if you can just stick it out for X more years the DSCs will be grown up and you'll finally have the life you want, not so much because it'll be DSC free but conflict/drama free.

I wrestle with the stay or go decision every day, partly because I love DH but to be honest it's also partly due to the sunk costs fallacy. I can't bear the thought that all the shit that being in a stepfamily has caused me will have left me with nothing apart from having to start all over again only a good few years older.

Exactly^
Things were okay/ manageable with DSD pre my baby but now I'm literally locked into this set up because DH is a fantastic dad to our DD, DSD's sudden rudeness and difficult behaviour towards me is more unbearable because I can't just leave and it causes DH and I to argue because he feels like a very stretched hinge between the two families and he just wants to bat me off when I suggest he encourage his DD to be polite or to reply when I talk to her or say thank you if I cut her a present or eat with her mouth closed. I never say these things to DSD but I do expect my DH to deal with these things but sometimes he just accuses me of being strict.

I feel like our house hold has two different tides pulling against each other and I don't know if I'll always have the energy to keep pulling.

Essentially I completely regret involving myself with a man who already had a child but I'm in too deep, it's too late for it not to end up a complete mess either path I decide to take and I starkly warn my sister and any friends to not get themselves into this unwinable situation.

Have you decided what you're going to do drfoster , stay or go? I actually moved out and got my own place for a couple of years when the situation got really bad, although things are much better now and I'm back in the family home I still struggle a lot. The youngest is now 14 so it seems daft to give up now, but on the other hand I question my ability to last even just a few more years...

God it sounds like me few months ago too...The feeling of wanting to leave, the regret of getting involved with a father, the uncertainty and anger that all of this is starting NOW when we had a baby..
It's scary how similar all this is..
At the moment things are better..we moved a long way away from the ex..SD still with us but is moving out very soon..
But still..If I had any inclination of how its going to go I would have never, ever gotten involved with a men that has children.

Ok - here's the thing...

I don't think either you or your DH have fully absorbed the shift in dynamic you having a child has inevitably had.

He's no longer the "only" parent in the household and his way of parenting isn't the sole concern.

It was a big shift in my home when I had DS. There were a whole ton of revelations.

I realised I'd helped (with the best of intentions) to shape a world that was so welcoming/flexible/tolerant around DSD that there wasn't any room for anyone else - my son, hell even myself.

It wasn't that DH was a Disney Dad or that I was a "seen but not heard" step parent. We were neither.

It was just we had focused our family in solely one direction and there had to be a re-shaping of how we functioned as a family to move forward.

With nuclear families this shift still happens - it's just less guilt ridden, I feel for want of a better expression. Yes there's a change for the first child when the next is born - you expect that and plan for it. What you don't do is nothing ie expect everything to remain utterly unchanged.

You can't create a "time bubble" around a child. Things change and it's up to all the adults around them to ease them into those new circumstances and ensure they feel loved and included as part of the process.

If a step mum posted theyd met their step kids after 3 weeks on here they would have the absolute shit ripped out of them.
Totally agree with you that this is often seen as a bad thing, I don't agree!

Tempuseejit, how long were you together before you moved in together? Teenage years are tough, and even tougher when you are not the parent, as my OH has found out. I think the issue with my OH is that he doesn't know or interact with any teenagers, so his only reference is with what teenagers were like when he was one added with a serious case of selective memory from what I gather interacting with his mum! Generations have changed with each treating kids with more leniency in one way, less in others. My OH struggled with the way my DS spoke to at times (which he would never have dared with his mum), and the state of his bedroom (which would have led to him being grounded forever!). He does forget though that his behaviour must have got quite bad because she kicked him out of the house when he was 18!

However, we've found the way to make it work with him not getting much involved with my DS. It's not ideal but it works, and I am confident that once DS is over the worse of those years, they will become close again.

There seem to be a common complaint from step-mums about politeness and SCs not being responsive or wanting to talk. My experience is that this is the result of the SC just not liking someone. The question then is why? Has it always been the case or has it come gradually? The difference is that a SP will want to make the effort to get on with their SC whereas the SC won't be bothered and would prefer avoiding the person.

The other common theme is that having known the situation, most wouldn't have got involved. I can assure you that the SC will in almost all likelihood know that. I would say that by the time I was 10, I could feel that my SM would have loved it if my dad had never had me. Of course she never said it, but it's amazing how perceptive kids are. It was the little comments, her behaviour that made it clear that her life would be so much better if I didn't exist. That certainly contributed to me feeling unloved or even unliked that led me to reciprocating the feeling.

I have never posted on a step-parenting thread before (they usually turn into a bun fight and I can't deal with the emotions that stirs up) - but I was brought up by my mum and SD, was close to my SM, and have been a SM to 3. No children of my own.

Right from the beginning of my relationship with DH 19 years ago, I saw my role in the children's lives as - virtually nothing at all. My job when they were with us was to be kind, generous and easy going, and as long as everyone got fed, nobody died and everyone was courteous to one another, that was good enough for me. If discipline was required, DH took over (unless he wasn't around, which happened rarely) - I was capable of breaking up a fight, soothing a bump or a scrape or stopping them from wandering into danger or whatever, but I wouldn't have dreamed of commenting on anything else. I saw myself as being entirely non-influential - I had no wish to upset or undermine their mother, who was a nightmare for many reasons and is much worse now they are adults but who was doing the best she could as a single mum, and I didn't want the kids to view me as anything other than a quiet, benign presence really.

In my mind the children and their relationship with their father came first - I accepted early on that I would ALWAYS be second, when it came to anything that involved them. Whatever he wanted to do or arrange in terms of contact, I acquiesced with no question. I was petrified that one or more would want to live with us at some point in their life (I just couldn't see myself coping), but when it actually happened and DH agreed to it without really consulting me, I accepted it immediately even though I was dying inside because, how could I object? It wasn't about me, or DH, or the ex - it was only about them and the relationship, and that trumped EVERYTHING including my own feelings.

The only way I could dismiss myself so easily was knowing that it wasn't forever. The kids would grow up and make their own way and all this would be a distant memory.

And that's where we are now. They are adults, I care very much for them all, we see them all regularly and do stuff together, they are kind and respectful and all doing well for themselves.

However - I do have one big regret, and that is that in removing myself from any position of influence, to preserve their relationship with their father for all those years, I also effectively removed myself emotionally. I didn't touch them or show physical affection when they were little, and that gulf is really showing now that they are adults. I am a little afraid to attempt to give an affectionate kiss or hug hello/goodbye, so I hold back.

Only a couple of weeks ago my SD voluntarily hugged ME. I think the last time I touched her was 10 years ago. I was quite overwhelmed, as though a barrier had been lifted. I don't kid myself that they are in any way fond of me, but I love them, I hope they like me and that's enough.

I'm not sure if any of this is helpful to anyone, least of all the OP - you have a child with your DP, that changes the dynamic entirely and I haven't been there - but ultimately, I got through the step-parenting maze by stepping right back.

They may think me a cold fish, 20 years on. But ultimately their relationship with DH was more important than mine, and I am safe in the knowledge that I never stood in between them.

BillyDavey I commend you but that sounds like a whole heap of self sacrifice & a life not lived for you.
Personally I couldn't do that nor would I want to.

But some self-sacrifice is an investment. If it meant that billydavey manage to have a good relationship with her OH, and now seems to be enjoying life as a SM, then was it really wrong if the alternative was constant arguments, frustrations, feeling undermined and disrespected, or breaking up, which could have meant finding a better relationship, or regretting what she'd had.

Who knows. I think we all make our choices and have to leave with them.