Showing affection in front of OH's children

[SaffronStrands]

I'm in a hellish situation with a new OH (9 months, living together) and his 3 children, which I have asked advice about elsewhere.

The eldest child (20) and I had our first, good talk last night and I invited him to tell me what was bothering them all. The first thing, and seemingly biggest thing, he said was that all 3 sons couldn't bear seeing his Dad and I showing affection to each other in front of them, and this has had a big effect on their attitude to me and might explain why one child in particular has been so nasty to me.

I am stunned, OH and I had no idea. He said they can't bear it when they walk into the kitchen and OH and I might be cooking with our arms round each other, or sometimes they've even seen us giving each other a kiss as we pass each other. He went on and said they found it deeply inappropriate that when we're in the car his Dad and I hold hands, "I mean, you do realise you are doing in front of us, do you?", and then "OK, OK, you're forcing me to get really personal now, but once we even saw you rest your hand on his thigh as he was driving! That's not on!"

I am speechless. I should point out resting my hand on his thigh is just that, not feeling him up or anything. We do nothing more than occasionally hug if we're both standing over the cooker stirring pots, or we're chatting and he puts his arms round me. If the boys come in the room, sometimes we'll stay like that and chat to them and have a laugh, but obviously if they come in and we're kissing we stop.

I've always thought this was natural and a nice thing to be, and also a nice thing to show OH's children. OH has wanted (perhaps too desperately, I know) to create a nice family atmosphere for his children, and I think we always presumed being affectionate and warm like this in front of them was a nice way of showing we're together and happy and the room is filled with warmth. I'm aghast to think for all these months it's been viewed in a completely different other way.

This son said last night that we need to understand it's inappropriate and we need to stop, they're the children and if anything makes them uncomfortable then we need to stop it now.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

Shouldn't they? Adults should do exactly as they like and the kids can just fuck off then? Umm not exactly what I said, no.

What I mean is that just because children don't like something doesn't mean they get to decide whether other people do it or not. Why should these kids get to tell their dad how affectionate he can be with his partner?!

I remember very well when I was younger that I hated my mum and dad holding hands, I used to run over and pull them apart....but that didn't stop my parents doing it.

How peculiar that you think adults should adapt to accommodate every feeling of an 18 and 20 year old

It's about parents accommodating the feelings of their children. Actually, I would expect my friends to respect my feelings if something was making me feel comfortable.

but you don't even entertain the concept of 18 and 20 year old adapting to accommodate the feelings of the adults whose lives they are destroying
They are destroying your lives by asking you to be discrete in their presence? Umm... a 9 month relationship shouldn't be destroying your life. As they are not permamently there can you not adapt during the times they are there to accomodate their feelings?
Can you not hold this thigh or whatever when they are not about or do you need to be permanently fixed to it?

If the middle son drives me to a nervous breakdown and hits me, I guess that still wouldn't be enough for you, you'd still blame me and would argue that I move out and his father's relationship is destroyed
Why would the child drive you to a nervous breakdown and hit you? How old is the middle child (sorry if I have missed this) and maybe you should not be in his company unsupervised if this is a possibility.

You get to choose whether or not this relationship is right for you. They only have 1 dad and I expect all parties want the relationship to work!

In a nutshell, the relationship is 9 months old, his children come as a package so I would assume are non-negiotiable. While you don't have to be the Walton's there does need to be a common respect.

Can you not comprise and cook in each others arms when they are not around?

How does their dad feel about all this? Really he should be directing the resolution whether it is in your favour or theirs.

What I mean is that just because children don't like something doesn't mean they get to decide whether other people do it or not. Why should these kids get to tell their dad how affectionate he can be with his partner?!

Because if OP and her boyfriend can't act like appropriate adults, the children need to tell them to. OP's attitude is appalling and you are siding with her just because she is older than them, which is disgraceful.

There is a time and place for adult children to come first.

Other times they just dont.

The comment about sitting in the car told me everything.

This eldest is trying to rule the roost, and the 'we' is a load of bollocks. At MOST if at all, the eldest has probably asked the others in a loaded question style and interpreted the response he wanted.

It's entirely possible that he has not even discussed it with the others.

As the partner of my OH I would expect to sit in the front every time, heck I drive OH car at least 75% of the time if we are all together.

If I am alone with my DS, DS sits in the front. If he is alone with his DC, they sit in the front. If either of us are there, we are automatically in front. no question. When I was in the car with OH DC only, they sat beside me.

This eldest son is trying it on. My OH DC is a lot younger, but I have had the 'I can see you holding hands' comment. I ignore mostly, because DC is a few years younger than your OH DS, but in my view DC will be better served seeing OH and me happy together and mildly affectionate than relying on the memory of the misery that was OH previous relationship.

This 20yo needs to open his eyes, he must have already grasped the fact that the world doesn't dance to his tune? and that as adults we are all able to make the choices we think best and don't get to be told what to do by others?

If I were you I'd acknowledge his words but point out that actually, while I hear him, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what I do or don't do, and I'll carry on as I am.

Most people don't think they should stop being affectionate, but rather that they could just tone it down.

I think it sounds like he overreacted re the hand on thigh in car, but this for example:

...we're chatting and he puts his arms round me. If the boys come in the room, sometimes we'll stay like that and chat to them...

...I can totally get why they might feel uncomfortable with. TBH it's a bit proprietarial (if that's a word).

Surely the thing to do here is compromise, I don't see why it's such a hardship to touch each other less, not not at all when the children are around. Show some respect for their feelings if you want them to show respect for yours.

Because if OP and her boyfriend can't act like appropriate adults, the children need to tell them to. OP's attitude is appalling and you are siding with her just because she is older than them, which is disgraceful.

Nope, I'm siding with OP because from what she's described she and her partner aren't doing anything wrong in being affectionate with each other in front of his kids.

I would understand if the kids were showing up and OP and their dad had clearly just been in bed together, but having their arms round each other while cooking? Holding hands in the car?

I just don't think the level of affection described in the original post is inappropriate, and therefore I don't think think the reaction of the partner's son is reasonable.

Can you not hold this thigh or whatever when they are not about or do you need to be permanently fixed to it?
You sound a bit clingy if you have to hold onto his thigh and have to be stuck like glue when you're cooking.

Nobody has said to stop being affectionate.
But there's really no need to be so touchy feely when other people are around.
What are they trying to prove?

For crying out loud. I cannot believe some of the comments here.

So a person walking behind their partner and putting a hand round their waist whilst cooking is "being clingy" and "having to be stuck like glue"???

So when my partner squeezed my hand during a terrible car journey, and placed it on top of his thigh whilst he used both hands to turn the steering wheel, that's me "holding onto his thigh" and "needing to be permanently fixed to it” and one of you asked “is that really necessary”???

So when I say I have listened and thought we'll probably cut back, but will definitely NOT obey a 20 year old's order to "stop it altogether" nor agree with him that adults showing affection is "wrong, wrong wrong!" (not just his father and I), this isn't enough for some of you, I'm apparently refusing to accommodate them absolutely???

So two middle aged adults showing each other light levels of physical affection is "trying to prove something"???

So OH and I now have to stop all physical contact in every room in the house except the bedroom, whether two young adult children are in the room or not, and also not only when they are living with us half the week, but also for 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, just in case one of them drops in or walks past our garden and sees us and would otherwise "make them unwelcome in your home"???

So two middle aged adults showing each other light levels of physical affection makes us a couple who "can't act like appropriate adults"???

So if an 18 year old has created hell for his DF's partner and the DF through daily rudeness and a series of terrible incidents, and such is his behaviour that he might assault his DF's partner, one of you actually believes the solution is for the potential victim of assault "to be supervised when in his company" and not for the threatening lout to be dealt with???

So for adults to believe that people should treat each other with respect and for me to not agree that there is something actually wrong for adults to show physical affection to each other when other people are around (I repeat - they believe it is wrong to see full stop, not just OH and I), and not agreeing that resting a hand on a thigh for about 30 seconds is behaviour that should be restricted to Sodom and Gomorrah, makes my attitude "appalling"???

So my coming on Mumsnet and posting just 2 threads (TWO) about 2 incidents is "You've felt the need to start at least 2 threads...”???

I think some of you are stark, raving, bonkers.

OP, try not to let it get to you.

In my experience so far, this section isn't really a place where stepparents get much support or many positive responses, particularly if anything they express is at odds with what the children (no matter the age) want.

I believe you would have got very different responses if you were the mother here, speaking about your own son with DP.

I agree with you op, some of the responses here are bonkers. I can't see that you've done anything wrong other than try your best. I think your partner's at least mostly responsible for their behaviour though, and I wish all 'Disney Dads' of young children would read your posts.

I think you've got to accept that he comes as a package with his three sons, and decide if you can live like this or not. I couldn't. I'd be the one voting with my feet. Good luck.

As the child of a father who got a new wife when I was 15ish I agree - it's not that there's anything innately wrong with your affection or that you're being lewd ... but it feels like a massive fucking knife stabbing you in the heart every time you see it- reminding you he's not with your mum, reminding life will never be the same, reminding you of the initial pain.
It's not your fault, and it's unfair on you, but it's how it feels.

Although seeing as the divorce was so long ago it just could seem gross to them because they've seen him be affectionate with their partners and are just sick of it

Plus, you may be being more cutesy than you think

Also wow you sound high strung and determined to play the victim. They're hurting, you've invaded, your affectionate show that you think demonstrates 'warmth' actually demonstrates territorialism ... and they're responded with leaving mess everywhere - think animals pissing.
You're in a territory/ownership struggle with two young men without realising it.
The youngest doesn't care because he's the youngest, his place has always been as the baby.

I can't see that you've done anything wrong

One can only wonder how very low your standards are if you can't see it.

Op. I have a boyfriend.

I also have teens. His are early 20's.

We are very very careful not to do anything affectionate in front of them. We don't put arms around waist when cooking or hand on thigh when driving or even kiss in front of them. We do hug on arrival/departure (dint live together) but it's brief.

My kids don't need to see their mother being sexual with a man who isn't their dad. That's not fair to them.

You need to start seeing it from their POV and catch a grip a bit.

You're new. The relationship is new. It's going to be hard for them.

Yes, OP, I know it's different, but the fact remains he is showing affection to a woman who is not their mother, and alive or dead, maybe that is what hurts them. Maybe all they remember are arguments, or whatever.

"He'd never shown my mum such affection" could well be a part of it even though she's very much still around. I don't think you can say that with such certainty.

In your OP you asked for thoughts and experiences, yet you seem totally unwilling to actually see anything reasonable in any except those that are already in agreement with yours. And you then quote the most extreme viewpoints in the other direction and use these as justification for not taking any conflicting opinions on board.

In your last post you say "So when I say I have listened and thought we'll probably cut back..." but I can't find that in any of your previous posts. It's great if you're going to cut back, that's all I and many other posters think you SHOULD do, none of this extreme "all physical affection is wrong" stuff you seem to be hearing.

I'm a stepparenting and all for supporting each other. But to me that means sharing experiences and listening to other stepparents POVs, and actually giving advice that I think is likely to lead to an overall better situation for the stepmum. Clinging to a moral high ground and refusing to budge from it because you believe you are technically in the right does not tend to bode well for navigating the numerous challenges that being a stepmum brings. And I am not saying turn into a pushover and let the kids rule the roost, I'm saying pick your battles and practice a bit of give and take. Talk to your stepson, say you can't agree to never be physically affectionate but you'll take into account that they don't like it and try to do it less when they're around. I don't get why that's so hard.

sweetbitter
In your last post you say "So when I say I have listened and thought we'll probably cut back..." but I can't find that in any of your previous posts.

Here:

Of course, if I have any relationship left after the months of hell we have been through, we would cut back on the displays of affection. I do however think being told how disgusting it is and how abhorrent we are as adults to even think it's ever acceptable to do that is too far, and being dictated to that we must never ever do anything like that again, is out of order.

Is he physically affectionate with his sons? They obviously don't want to put their hands on his thigh etc but could they be angry because he's not physically affectionate/too physically affectionate towards them?

I have to say after the disaster of your holiday, surely you weren't surprised at their unreasonable answer to what was wrong?

Sweetbitter puts it really well: it concerns me also that you ask for views, OP, but don't like any that don't entirely support your own. You have taken arguments to the extreme and I fear you miss the point here.

If you and your OH have a chance of a stable family environment, there has to be mutual respect. And you (and your OH) have to model the behaviour you want to see. So agreeing not to do things the children find uncomfortable would be a good start.

My H left when our children were 21 and 23. They have both really struggled to come to terms with him leaving, his change of priorities and how it affects them. My h thinks they are adults and should accept the new landscape, get on with it. It feels to them as if the world has changed, when they didn't want it to, and adapting to his new partner, to a different situation, is hard. My new partner and I both have children and it's clear to them all that we want to give them respect, and time. That doesn't mean they walk all over us, of course there are still standards, but at the same time, we respect their views as we ask them to respect ours. What I am saying is, it's hard for the boys, and they may act out. But if your arrangement is to work long term, surely once you ask for a view, you should at least take account of it?

Also, I'm in my 30s and my DF fairly recently died. TBH the thought of some random man coming into my mother's life, and being with her all the time when I see her, let alone being physically affectionate with her is REALLY difficult for me to think about. Rationally of course I want her to be happy and think she could well be happier in a new relationship than alone. But my god, the non-rational, selfish part of me really hopes she stays single. And I am considerably older than the children in the OP's post and have the added benefit of being a stepparent myself so having a viewpoint from the other side.

Of course, if I have any relationship left after the months of hell we have been through, we would cut back on the displays of affection

Fair enough, I missed that OP.

I do however think being told how disgusting it is and how abhorrent we are as adults to even think it's ever acceptable to do that is too far, and being dictated to that we must never ever do anything like that again, is out of order.

I agree that it is not his place to tell you never to do it again and that you shouldn't have to stop completely. But you did ask him to tell you what was bothering him...and he did. So not out of order in that context. By the way, has he had a girlfriend/boyfriend to your knowledge? I wonder if he'll loosen up his opinions on physical affection once he is in a relationship himself.

How many other relationships has their dad had?