Showing affection in front of OH's children

[SaffronStrands]

I'm in a hellish situation with a new OH (9 months, living together) and his 3 children, which I have asked advice about elsewhere.

The eldest child (20) and I had our first, good talk last night and I invited him to tell me what was bothering them all. The first thing, and seemingly biggest thing, he said was that all 3 sons couldn't bear seeing his Dad and I showing affection to each other in front of them, and this has had a big effect on their attitude to me and might explain why one child in particular has been so nasty to me.

I am stunned, OH and I had no idea. He said they can't bear it when they walk into the kitchen and OH and I might be cooking with our arms round each other, or sometimes they've even seen us giving each other a kiss as we pass each other. He went on and said they found it deeply inappropriate that when we're in the car his Dad and I hold hands, "I mean, you do realise you are doing in front of us, do you?", and then "OK, OK, you're forcing me to get really personal now, but once we even saw you rest your hand on his thigh as he was driving! That's not on!"

I am speechless. I should point out resting my hand on his thigh is just that, not feeling him up or anything. We do nothing more than occasionally hug if we're both standing over the cooker stirring pots, or we're chatting and he puts his arms round me. If the boys come in the room, sometimes we'll stay like that and chat to them and have a laugh, but obviously if they come in and we're kissing we stop.

I've always thought this was natural and a nice thing to be, and also a nice thing to show OH's children. OH has wanted (perhaps too desperately, I know) to create a nice family atmosphere for his children, and I think we always presumed being affectionate and warm like this in front of them was a nice way of showing we're together and happy and the room is filled with warmth. I'm aghast to think for all these months it's been viewed in a completely different other way.

This son said last night that we need to understand it's inappropriate and we need to stop, they're the children and if anything makes them uncomfortable then we need to stop it now.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

I've been the step child in this position, and it's absolutely horrible seeing your parent behaving like a giggly teenager. It's uncomfortable, you feel like you're intruding in your own home.

I'd dial it down a bit but you don't have to stop completely. TBH I dont think I'd stand chatting to DSS with my arms around DP, it would just feel a bit like rubbing his face in it. Same with prolonged hand holding and random kissing.

DP and I are pretty physically affectionate, and I definitely wouldn't stop giving him a kiss goodbye/hello in front of DSS, or a random hug here and there if I felt like it. But I would be aware of not walking along holding hands with him or hanging all over each other while DSS was in the room, just out of respect for DSS. No kids love to see their own parents holding hands and being gooey with each other, surely, and so it's extra sensitive when it's a step parent.

Given how you say they are with tidying, it sounds like they are used to ruling the roost a fair bit. I his you could try dialing it down a little, and seeing if that improved the middle ones behaviour. It's hard to know though if the widest was representing the other two in what he says. 20 seems quite old to be squeamish about your parents affectionate behaviour though.

and also a nice thing to show OH's children. OH has wanted (perhaps too desperately, I know) to create a nice family atmosphere for his children, and I think we always presumed being affectionate and warm like this in front of them was a nice way of showing we're together and happy and the room is filled with warmth. I'm aghast to think for all these months it's been viewed in a completely different other way

I am suprised you are so surprised, but the it doesn't sound like you understand boundaries at all. You are purposefully showing off your physical relationship in front of your boyfriends children, and have been doing so for months, meaning you didn't even know them when you started it. Hell, you barely know them now.
Your attitude is odd and inappropriate and it's no shock they are uncomfortable and don't like you very much.

Sorry, oldest, not widest

I would struggle with this from a 20 year old. You should be able to show some affection in your home. And the tidying and the 'my seat in the car' make them sound extremely spoiled. It would be difficult to parent someone else's very spoiled child.

OH and I might be cooking with our arms round each other.

Sorry but this made me laugh. How can you cook like This?

I think you needs to put yourself in their shoes as it's making them uncomfortable in their own house.

Hmm it does sound like quite a bit of affection and if they're not used to it then that's going to make them feel a bit uncomfortable. It is their house too and I don't think being considerate of them is the same as being dictated to.

But the 20 yo should not really be talking on behalf of his brothers, and I would always expect the adult to have the front seat in a car journey unless there was car sickeness or something. But then I know a 20 yo is an adult so I might be being unreasonable there.

I can see why they're uncomfortable and I think you should consider their feelings since you've moved into their home.

The 20 year old also said he was really unhappy that I sat in the passenger seat for 2 days in a row, when we were on holiday, "I didn't like that, that's where I sit, but you know, I'll go in the back, that's fine"

The middle son already has a very dictatorial manner (here and at his mum's house) and has behaved terribly and rudely when things aren't the way he demands. This very forcefully-put demand by his elder brother isn't quite the explosive equivalent, but still feels the same kind of "we rule round here, all adults must obey us" kind of thinking that I've been experiencing for months

For example, they've said they disagree that tidying up is important. It makes them really angry whenever their Dad and I ask them to tidy up the mess they leave behind everywhere. Do we now roll over because asking them tidy up makes them uncomfortable?!!

What the hell are their parents doing to correct this?

This has NOTHING to do with you being affectionate & everything to do with their over inflated sense of entitlement & control etc Where on earth did they get the idea that they set the rules & the adults obey?

I'm guessing from the guilt of two divorced parents treating them like mini gods & not children. Never telling them no. Always dropping everything to do their bidding. Possibly pitting one against the other.

What a mess. Time for them both to do more to sort their kids outlook on life out. Pronto.

It's really good that you are talking about it. That's brilliant.

I wonder if you can both come to a compromise. I do think that at 20 he needs to realise that he has to have a greater tolerance as he's old enough to make his own way if he doesn't like his parents choices. Although that is often taken as the childlike part of them that says 'but no! I want things to stay the way they were!'. However things have changed.

They have a choice now and you have a choice. I guess it's harder on a teenagers brain to realise that the degree of acceptance they have now can really, really help them to still feel connected to their Dad. If they decide, and it is a decision, to grow increasingly resentful and expect you to just disappear, then they are going to lose an important relationship. And that is on them.

However, on your side and their Dad's, you can be sympathetic, caring and give them time. I would tone down the physical contact completely for a while. I know it might feel hard, but you are not a couple in love in a bubble. There are children there and strong physical bonds are so obvious and can feel excluding. There's just no harm is there, if you have enough other time when you are alone to do it.

But as the older boy is taking things to be 'as the boss' then without that being addressed, if you then change to compromise it may just mean that he still does nothing back to accept you. It has to be two way. I'd be really, really clear on that.

Sound like some top class Pearl clutching from a twenty year old there.

You put your hand on your partners thigh?! gasp quick, get the smelling salts.

I'm trying to figure out how you managed not to laugh in his face, I bet he does far more than resting a hand on a thigh, with people he's known far less than you and his dad have when he's away at uni.

Sounds like he's deliberately trying to make you feel uncomfortable rather than being open and honest. Tell him to get a grip and grow up.

user1471548375
Sound like some top class Pearl clutching from a twenty year old there.
You put your hand on your partners thigh?! gasp quick, get the smelling salts. I'm trying to figure out how you managed not to laugh in his face,

I didn't manage not to! I blurted out a laugh, I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I rested my hand on his thigh??? He was saying this as if it were the most sexually explicit act he'd ever seen. Then "We saw you holding hands.. I mean, you do realise we can see you? We can't understand how you think that's acceptable!".

Good grief. Because on planet earth it is.

They can appear out of the blue on the non-Dad-custody days (their two homes are very close to each other). Once we were in the kitchen having a little kiss when this eldest son appeared at the window. Apparently he was disgusted and all that has to stop too. I kissed OH as he left for work one morning on the doorstep and this eldest son appeared looking his usual glum self. Now I realise he was disgusted by this -live sex show- everyday kiss and regards it as "like soooo inappropriate".

I can't get over this "whatever the kids say, the adults must conform" nonsense.

Saffron you're still not showing much empathy.

Of course they are being unreasonable to expect you to change your behaviour. But you don't seem to have any sense of how it feels to them to see their Dad being affectionate.

They're not saying that holding hands is morally wrong or touching a thigh is sex. They're saying that seeing their father have romantic feelings for someone else makes them uncomfortable.

You have to look at what's going on behind the words here.

If you just want to say 'adults rule, kids should deal with it' then that's an option and it sounds like your preferred one. Just don't expect the children to develop a good relationship with you and their relationship with their Dad will also suffer.

where's your OH in all this?
What does he have to say about it?

This son said last night that we need to understand it's inappropriate and we need to stop, they're the children and if anything makes them uncomfortable then we need to stop it now

And the ADULTS are going to accept this?

Tell them their OPINION is exactly that - their opinion.
You and OH have a different opinion.
Therefore, you will have to agree to disagree on the 'appropriateness' of showing NORMAL affection.

Yes, they are the children - therefore they^ do not get to dictate house rules, nor the rules in your relationship with OH.
They might feel uncomfortable at the start but they will get used to it.

Ask them if they intend on bringing their gf or partners to the house at some point?
How would they like to be treated?
How would they like their partners to be treated?
Ask them if they ever saw their parents showing affection towards each other when married?

Do they also dictate their mums' relationships like this as well?
How do they behave at their mums?

The 20 year old is being an egotistical little twat and shit stirring.
You asked them to communicate honestly with you - you didn't promise them any particular outcome.
It's your home too now, and unless they live there as well they have no right to dictate how you should behave in your own home.

Oh god the popping in whenever they want as the houses are so close situation - I really identify with this! Then you have no private time. I think this only works if the kids are also prepared to adjust and there is some harmony between all.

Otherwise it just ramps up the tension - no one ever gets a break. So you never have a private moment to kiss your DP. That's like saying you have to 100% on form for the children.

I had this, one step child horrified that me and DP were having a kiss and cuddle in the garden. She had just popped by but was supposed to be at her Mums and was very moody and pissed off about us. I was quite resentful of the intrusion actually, I got precious little time to just bond with DP. Quite important for a relationship! You know I made quite an effort not to do pda in front of them so I think I was allowed my private moments.

blueonblue
Saffron you're still not showing much empathy.

I can see why you say that. I have bent over backwards here, showing so much empathy for them for months, and now I am at the end of my tether.

I would have so much more empathy if it wasn't a whole 10 years since their parents divorced, or I was the first partner since their Mum. But neither is true. I'd also have more empathy if they were younger children who didn't understand how adults behave and how normal the occasional display of affection is between partners.

Of course they are being unreasonable to expect you to change your behaviour.

Thank you. That's what I think. It's because of this that perhaps any empathy I do feel is not coming across.

They're not saying that holding hands is morally wrong or touching a thigh is sex. They're saying that seeing their father have romantic feelings for someone else makes them uncomfortable.

Well, the way the son spoke he really did make it sound like the former - when I asked him why it is so "inappropriate" he just said "it's just wrong, wrong, wrong!". They would have seen their father with previous partners, so this is not new to them.

If you just want to say 'adults rule, kids should deal with it' then that's an option and it sounds like your preferred one.

Not really. But at what point do two young men's "discomfort" (because like I said he may say he is speaking for all 3, but the youngest has only shown warmth whenever he has seen us with, say, OH's hand round my waist) become the metric by which their OH and his partner must behave? At what point do you say, OK, you feel discomfort, but you have to get over it, because the world does not revolve round you. In the same way as so many things that they do have resulted in discomfort for me, their BM, their SF and their DF but we have to accept on some levels this is what they are doing, we don't like it, but there we go.

There has been a common theme from OH's kids on many subjects, not just affection, that whatever they say or want or demand happens, must happen and adults are supposed to exist to meet their requirements and stipulations. I suppose this affection demand (and it was really put across as a demand "you must stop!") is for me, another in a long line. My empathy is just about running on empty now.

There are different themes here. The 'you have invaded our space and we are struggling to adjust one'. This relate to the having to seat in the back. Unreasonable of course, but then this is what happens when things are rushed and people -at an age where adjusting in not what they do best- take time to adapt.

Then there is the issue of acting disgusted in front of adults expressing what they see as affection and teenagers sees as sexually explicit behaviour. Totally normal and yes, normally they get over it at 20 when they themselves are involved in a relationship, but if they're not, it can linger.

Then there is the ' it's not just acting and pretending, your behaviour really makes me feel uncomfortable'. I think this part needs to be taken seriously, especially in regards to the younger kids. If it really makes them feel like that, then you should make an effort to pack it in a bit in front of them. I remember being all lovey dovey with my OH when we first met and my kids were delighted (and young enough to find it endearing), but still we were careful not to obvious about it because well, it was new to them and probably a bit odd.

It sounds as though he's happier when his dad is on his own. If his dad was still married to his mum, then his mum would be in the front seat of the car.

Do any of them have relationships themselves?

Banana: if the kids lived f/t with one set of parents, when would that private tie occur?

For a new partner it is surely a 'perk' if the DSC are regularly at the other parents, but surely it is not an entitlement?

Surely children of split parents have two homes, not two places they are allowed in on a timed schedule like a B&B?

You don't need to change a thing.

You are not acting inappropriately or insensitively at all. He's just being a dick. They clearly haven't had the correct boundaries & feel they get to say what does/doesn't happen. They're wrong. They need to get this message because no one in the real world is going to put up with this attitude from them.

All this 'poor kids' stuff is nonsense. He's a non resident 20 year old acting like your Grandad.

Stop inviting his opinion & just tell him to grow up. Whether he likes it or not his Dad is entitled to a life & a partner. He's twenty not 5.

You've asked him, and he's been honest with you - yes okay, you aren't doing anything wrong, but would it kill you to be a bit more sensitive to his feelings? I don't see why you can't just dial the touching down a bit whilst the kids are around.

One reason my teen DC are reluctant to go to their dad's house is because he and OW are leching all over each other and they find it very uncomfortable. I'm sure he would describe it as perfectly fine too.