LONG first post - very worried i'm going to kill a 20 year marriage soon

[OlderTaz87]

It's my first post on here and i apologise for just how worked up i am for this. I'm posting because i need some serious advice from neutral people ahead of having a major discussion with my Husband tomorrow night regarding my 'adult' SD.

I walked into a relationship with my OH with full knowledge of his domestic set up at that point. I accepted he came as a package with a 4 year old child and thought i had my eyes wide open. I knew and accepted that i would be having my SD every weekend and the majority of holidays too. I loved and adored my OH and i came to love and adore my SD too. I truly mean that too. When at age 10 her domestic situation changed (i had just given birth to our first child together) and i was asked literally on the spot to have her move in permanently with us i was so keen to help my Husband that i readily agreed. I had, after all, spent 6 years at this point in a happy and healthy relationship with her.

Over the years we had one major blip when she was 17/18, it was quite a blip and affected us both deeply but somehow we got past it.By the time she left for Uni we were as we'd always been, completely close as anything. (her bio mum has been nothing short of horrible to her over the years so i've always 'stepped up' and been more).

However, my current issue began after Uni. At first she said she wasn't moving home as had met someone and they were moving onwards together (he was nice, they were happy, i thought they were too young etc... but she was adamant). Still, i got the loft converted so we could move one of our 'now 2 children together' into a bigger room and still allow her to be able to move home after if need be. So far so good. Invariably, her plans didn't go her way post uni and the boyfriend insisted they spend 6 months to a year getting more funds together and then move in properly. She returned home rather unhappily in this regard but with this being the plan. Unfortunately this is where it goes a little wrong on all of us as we failed (i now see) to discuss what the plan was, what would happen, lay down any rules, structure anything at all. Thus, i spent a first miserable year post uni with her living out her relationship under my roof and rather painfully so. She became surly, rude, sharp with her siblings, came and went as she pretty much pleased, got a great job but offered no upkeep at all, lived in a pigsty, destroyed the shower room she came to see as utterly hers (as we have more than one bathroom lucky for us) and just generally sent our lives into a year of miserable chaos. To the outside world and OH's family she was still the great girl she'd always been, no complaints there and i'm not prone to going moaning to them either as not their problem. However, it DID start to erode the relationship between me and OH very gradually. During that first year i lost my second Brother to cancer and i was at a real all time low but trying to work, run things, love my children, deal with SD and her other half in the house and the constant rows and tiptoing around things that everyone was doing.

A year into things, no doubt with things festering with me i completely lost it at my OH about her speaking rudely to me and for once he'd actually overheard it too. When i say 'rude' it was always done in quite the clever way... nothing you could fully pinpoint. But it was with disdain almost and i didn't like it. So... I blew. NOT at her i might add as we'd had that once at age 17 and neither of us had quite recovered from that. Instead I just walked away from her and raged at her Dad. So, in turn, he ended up blowing at her. He didn't mean to, he simply said "WHEN you've gone through life a little, lived a little and earned the right to form opinions on everything, you can decide then if you get to be rude to people like your step-mum - until then maybe you could grow up a little". Unfortunately, that statement provoked the most hellish row they've ever had in their lives and my SD said the most terrible things i've ever heard her say to him. I was no longer upset for me but furious for him (he has been an amazing Dad to her, nobody is perfect ... but he's been her everything, and i've come a pretty close 2nd over a long time). So it hurt.

SD tried a few days later in a roundabout way to apologise for some of the things she said 'whilst simultaneously blaming us for making her say them' which didn't bode well with me at all and made me even more angry then i was. I then ended up losing my rag too and said things that really weren't pleasant at all. Quite a few hurtful things got flung in my direction that i wont go into and i reciprocated pretty awfully too much to my horror, but there you go... cant be taken back now.

A few weeks later her boyfriend dumped her and the atmosphere at home became worse.

THAT was a year and a half ago.

Cue today and i'm just NOT living a normal existence at home at all. In fact, i dont feel like i've lived a normal existence in my house now running into a third year. Nothing is 'natural' anymore, nobody ever fully recovered from the huge row. No apologies ever came our way, quite the opposite at the time ("all my friends think YOU are wrong") and there it was..... We come and go in 'polite terms', there are no more rows... but there is no more anything really. We all exist alongside each other but not in an entirely comfortable manner. I DREAD coming home :( i mean REALLY dread... each and every day. I can't seem to get past it no matter how i try or resolve to do so :( I'm still so very very angry at her and cant get past it much to my dismay.

I'm confident she would prefer we WOULD get past it, and i've no doubt she wishes it wasn't this way either, but my resentment has done nothing more than build this last year and a half. We've now had to rip up the shower room as it's now completely disgustingly ruined. I cant bring myself to go near her room as it's so beyond shocking and it's hard to 'parent an adult' in all honesty. I'd be telling my younger ones to 'pick that up' 'bring that plate down' 'clean that sink' etc... but it no longer works this way as it's just plain awkward as she's nearly 24 now. She'll come in at all hours and then stay in bed all day at the weekend, get annoyed if the kids go near her room etc. During the week she still works at her very well paid job, yet still 2 years after getting that job she is yet to offer one penny in contribution (again, we should have covered this from the off, but when you're told someone is going in 6-12 months you tend not to maybe cover everything you should have covered) - but nonetheless i'm still angry that she never even offered.

I feel very very angry of late. I'm arguing non stop with my Husband now over it. I'd say we've pretty much argued over it every week if not every few days this last year - its going to kill the pair of us off. Everyone thinks we have this sold strong relationship (we did) and i'm just unable to discuss this with family or friends for fear of them holding it against her (i dont want them to do that and they would).

My husband wont talk to ANYONE about it at all, and as he cant talk to me without it now escalating into a full on row then that leaves him nobody and i'm actually devastated for HIM that it's this way. I should be the one person to take away his hurt and i'm causing him more by being unable to come back from this. He feels 'stuck' in this whole situation.

I feel she should be making plans by now, that she's an adult, a working adult at that and should no longer be acting like a teenager. She has many many wonderful qualities to her, all the things i have spent many years loving her for and heck raising her with myself. But i'm scared that if she doesn't make a plan to change this soon that it's going to implode at home and we will never return from it. I'll be throwing away 20 years and i'm starting to see no way out :( My 12 year old Daughter has started to ask me at bedtime 'what is wrong mum, is there a problem with you and SD?' and i'm devastated that being the intuitive little thing she is she has picked up on all the little things that clearly aren't normal anymore.

Tomorrow night i have asked my mum to come and babysit the children. I am going to take my OH for a drink and my intention is to explain that this cant continue, we need and deserve some plan of some kind, it's not unreasonable and i want to come back home with him on side and with some plan to go forwards with. I'm scared it's not going to go this way though :( :( :(

I don't want to type the 'am i being unreasonable?' sentence... as no doubt there are major parts of me being unreasonable. What i would really welcome though is some constructive advice to help me through the next stage of this.

Sorry this was so very long.

This sounds miserable for pretty much everyone, why doesn't she want to get her own place?

The fact that she stays in bed all day at the weekends makes me wonder if she's depressed. Does she have friends / a social life?

I don't think you are being unreasonable in wanting a clear timescale and plan for when she will move out. In terms of advice for how to make it happen I think it depends on why it hasn't happened already - is it motivated by money saving, loneliness, depression or what exactly on her side?

Thank you @sweetbitter for taking the time to reply. Part of my talk with OH will be about asking him to establish the barriers to moving etc. I agree they are important to know. If i'm honest, i think the main barrier is it not fitting the ideal scenario in her head. The ideal scenario was to move with the boyfriend etc. So in terms of finances she was happy enough to move at that particular point 'with him' and could have afforded to do so.

I also absolutely believe depression has played a part in a lot of things, mine now too in all honesty.

She forsaked a lot of friendships throughout her time with the boyfriend that i warned her was not the right way to go. When they ended, she no longer had 'those' friendships anymore and he kept their 'uni friends' much to her dismay. So she has had to spend a lot of time building up on other old friendship groups and social life etc, which she has now quite successfully done to her credit.

She has mentioned 'occasionally' that she might move in with a mate (there are no real conversations in our house anymore though, so we never glean much information as everyone is wound so tight) but the mate scenario thing never materialises. In all honesty, i dont see it materliasing either for varying reasons. A lot of her friends dont have the same level of job as her etc... are floating around, want to bugger off and travel (she has mentioned this aloud too) and i'm just not confident at all this is going to go anywhere.

She has a very very decent first salary (she earns more than my husband which is galling and obviously she doesn't know that as that would crush him) and she hasn't had to part with any of it in two years so i would say she's netted herself a very decent amount of money in the bank by now. Having said that, if its buying a property herself she's after then that really isn't going to happen by herself any day soon as she wont have the variables for that for a number of years where we are.

Flatshare of some manner would in all honesty be her only route, be it with a mate, or with general female friendly flatshares until such day as she maybe met with someone new and started that ball rolling again...but it seems like she is adverse to doing this as i feel it's just not what she wants for herself.

Meanwhile, i'm left feeling that this situation at home is absolutely not what i want for 'myself' any longer. Its disappointing to have come so far both with her and in my relationship (20 years is a long long time) to feel like it's going to go so wrong now... but i'm so desperately unhappy at home now with no idea of any timeline for it ending.

I keep saying to my husband that neither of us left home in 'ideal scenarios' or could afford our own homes outright straightaway etc.. and that at some point you DO have to step out a little on your own and be independent and understand it does come with sacrifices and not everything you want in one hit.

i feel like i'm holding my breath permanently and waiting to exhale. It's so hard to explain really :(

Op I think a 24year old graduate with a well paid job who ia not willing to be polite and engaged and helpful with the family should move out.
You need to talk to your DH and be very clear its time for her to go. I get its his daughter and it may be hard for him to accept but she is not a child anymore and by the sounds of it you are her mother figure and should 100% have a say on what you want to happen.

I was 23 when I left home. I was supported throught uni but when I graduated I knew I would need to pay my parents rent if I wanted to stay and I would be requiered to help out with cleaning, taking care of pets and cooking. I choose to move out as I wanted to live by my rules.
My parents are not divorced.

It sounds to me like your are letting your adult SD live by HER rules in YOUR home. It's not right and it has to stop to save your sanity and marriage.
You have done more then enough OP.

It sounds very difficult for you all. I wonder if SD has got herself into a rut and hasn't got the energy or motivation to resolve it.
I wonder if you could decide on the new ' house rules' together with your DH and then present them to her as this is how it is from next week. You could perhaps both offer to help her tidy her room as it may have got so bad it's overwhelming for her and try to do it in a calm fashion to show her that you don't blame her. ( even if you do!)
This might build up some goodwill so that she is then able to reflect and see you aren't being unreasonable.
Good luck.

Poor you op. Sounds very difficult. I think the fact that you have to get your dm to babysit so you can go for a drink with your dh speaks volumes. The adult sibling of your dc should be doing it...

You are not being unreasonable at all and have clearly thought long and hard about how to approach this.

What are you arguing with your OH about, or more like, what is he arguing back?

You've laid it as it is, it is time for her to move on. She needs her independence, and you need your home back. She IS an adult, as you've said. She has a job, so what is it that is keeping her back in an environment that surely can't be too pleasant for her either.

Is she scared to live on her own? Or is it that her lifestyle is such that she would have to give up too many luxuries.

Your OH needs to open his eyes to the fact that he needs to -very gently, without her feeling rejected- push her out of the nest. Why isn't he?

You're not unreasonable at all.

What on earth did she do to the shower?

I definitely think it's time for change and it's not too late at all. Yes you could've done it when she moved in and yes she may wonder why now but quite frankly she's taking the piss. And she probably knows it.

I'd be setting really clear expectations. Weekly amounts of rent, contribution to household chores and contribution to some family time too.

I'd sit down and have a big big chat. About everything. But lay some ground rules out first to facilitate the discussion and ao it doesn't get heated.

At the end of the day it's your house. She might not like new rules but she can always move out.

This sounds just plain horrid all round. Would family mediation be an option? Maybe if someone else was telling her that her behaviour isn't appropriate she might start listening?

You are definitely doing the right thing by talking your worries through with your DH.
Do you and your DH actually want her to move out ? By that question what I mean Is, if she was contributing to the household by way of board and lodgings, helping with the chores, showing respect etc and not treating the place like a free hotel - would you be happy for her to continue living with you? If so perhaps you and DH assess a level of rent you feel is adequate (perhaps what she would have to pay for houseshare or a % of) and tell her all of the above and If she doesn't like it then tell her she has to move out.
Saying that are there any underlying problems, depression has been mentioned. The feeling of rejection from the BF, the isolation from their mutual friends, Have you and DH asked her if she is ok ? Perhaps you could tell her you are worried about her and see if she opens up about anything.

It's such a shame your rerelationship is how it is , please fight for your marriage and yoir 2 children, can you and DH perhaps have some counselling and get yoir relationship back on trace.
Fingers crossed everything works out for you x

I agree could a third party mediate otherwise it's just going to end up a screaming match again with nothing resolved

Hi OP - that does sound like a really awful situation. It's obvious she needs to move out but you can't just kick her out.
I'm wondering if you could sit her down & say you want to talk for 10 minutes uninterrupted & then she can have her 10 mins?
If it were me then I'd use that time to tell her that while you're worried about her & happy to talk/lend support if something is bothering her, her behaviour at home is not acceptable & cannot continue. I'd then say you need some indication as to when she's going to move out & start taking care of herself but that in the meantime there's going to be house rules put in place; the first being that she's going to start paying rent.
I'd imagine from what you've said she won't like that & will give you & Dp what-for. If it goes that way I'd hear her out for her 10 minutes but NOT react (hard as it may be).
I'd imagine she'll head off in a strop but will either come back with cooled heels or not, or she'll choose to move out. If not and the behaviour continues then I'd point out to her calmly that she needs to leave; that you're not kicking her out but you are not prepared to parent a grown adult who is working. You and Dp may need to lose her for a while before the WOMAN you know comes back.
It does sound like she may be depressed but as you say it's probably also a bit that things haven't worked out as she wanted and she's angry.
However at the end of the day she is an adult and is going to have to start caring for herself.

I too think you should consider family mediation or separate counselling to help you all move past this. You are miserable and have a lot of anger, your dh must be miserable and I'm sure she is too. You need to get to an outcome you can life with, probably her moving out.

Why would it crush her father for her to hear that she earns more than him? With that context it is clear that she should be paying rent - or at the very least paying for repairs to damage she causes - but she doesn't have that context. She can hardly be blamed for not knowing that money is so tight, when she hasn't been told.

Some of these issues seem to be very standard for this age group. I've got friends with adult children who can't even mange to hold down a job - she's very far from the worst I've heard of.

It's hard to know what to say about the huge rows in the past, except that the fact that there is still an atmosphere in the house over them, so much later, means that you all have some culpability. Not just her.

I suggest family therapy. I don't think this living situation is healthy for any of you, but it might take a counsellor to help your husband realise that. Providing a home for one children is a very strong instinct, and he's probably worried that if she moves or with things as they are, she won't choose to spend time with him at all.

My blood boiled just reading that. It sounds horrific OP, she shounds horrific. Your DH should think himself very lucky you are still with him because SD is lazy ,nasty ,manipulative and how you've not both kicked her out on her arse is beyond me.

A talk is a good idea, calmly state how you feel to him. You both need to be on the same page, same book and put on a united front so she can't divide and conquer. She needs to be told that If she is going to continue to live in your house then she must respect you both , do her fair share of chores and for gods sake, pay towards living there!

You have clearly been so patient and she's milked it for all she's worth. Time to stop the free ride. I hope you sort it out and are happy with the outcome

your posts are long, I've skimmed. I too had a dd that grew to be a challenge. her view of the working world was different than mine/dh.
we sent her to live with family, the dynamics were different enough that she blossomed.
deep down I recognized that what I saw in her eyes was fear, fear of taking the next step.

I think if all else fails, I'd be planning a move to another part of the country, to a house with no extra room for her! I know that sounds draconian....and a little cruel, but I think she's had it, too easy for too long, and frankly needs a kick up the backside!

No advice, just wanted to say you sound lovely and very reasonable. You sound so sensible I'm sure you will come up with the best way forward.

As a PP asked, is the problem she's not moving on, or her behaviour living with you?

I think it would be completely reasonable for you and DH to set the rules for living in your house, including paying rent and perhaps babysitting once a week so you and DH can have an evening together.

Perhaps that's the first step. She may choose to move out, but if she stays that would hopefully reduce the tension.

When things were difficult with my foster daughter I offered her a choice of arbitrator - a previous carer, her teacher, an 'aunty' from church, or any other adult she could suggest that we would mutually agree. If that person agreed I was being unreasonable or unfair I would reconsider, but the opinion of her friends was of no interest to me. Strangely she couldn't produce an adult to agree with her...

Long term plans can perhaps be discussed once everyday life is calmer - best case scenario. Otherwise she doesn't comply and needs to leave, but with you and DH on the same page this can hopefully be done calmly and matter of fact as her choice to leave rather than fit in with family rules.

But I think first step is for you and DH to spend the time and energy on a joint decision about the basic family rules that are not up for discussion.

It's really difficult to cope with the idea that adult children can live at home without it being profoundly negative for all.

Maybe just start from the point that things have to change, the status quote is not an option. See what your help says from there.

DH not help

She needs to move out. Do you have any spare cash so that you could help her find a rental flat, maybe pay the deposit and first month's rent? It would be a saving in the long run, both financially and mentally.

You sound like a such a nice person. You're being a mug though. It's one thing taking in a SD when they are young, but she's 24. And she's obviously not stupid so I dare say she can cope on her own.

I would offer her support though, from afar, as it does sound like she might be a bit depressed.

Does she go out on Friday & Saturday nights? That might explain the lie-ins. It does sound as if things are pretty miserable for the 3 adults in the house, can you write down some points so you can give them to your husband to read, perhaps then things won't get as heated and you can work out a strategy together.

I would say some sort of counselling is needed. You and she have bitter and sad grudges and memories - she against her DM and you against her as she is so difficult, due to her DMs lack of care.
She needs individual counselling and family counselling. Why did she move back home?? That arrangement was bound to fail.

I think what came across to me OP was how you let things build up and don't deal with them for YEARS (a bit Luke SD's room emotionally). The outbursts don't seem that bad to me, you sound like a hugely conflict avoiding family and it is undermining everything. You sounds Luke you put up with a lot, but without letting it go/ forgiving/ moving on. I think emotionally everything needs tidying up big time. What do you dread about coming home? Why? What can be done about it? How does your dh feel? What does he propose?

And I agree, you should not need a babysitter with a 24 year old at home.

What does she contribute to the family ahs has she ever been expected to contribute? It may do wonders for her self esteem if she is expected to behave as another adult in the house, not one of the children. I would also suggest you expect a contribution to the family from the younger ones, with chores etc. so they learn from now what makes a family run and that's it not just you and Dad who shop/ wash/ cook/ clean. Your 12yo is old enough to cook with a couple of lessons, a basic dish.