Holiday abroad - I don't know what to do!

[MumTo2GirlsDT]

So my parents have offered to take all the family abroad on an all inclusive holiday, which consists of my 2 parents, brother & his 2 girls, sister brother in law & their 3 boys, me DH & 2 DDs. Now the problem is I have a 10yo SS but my parents can't afford to take him as it's £460 each. They also don't really want him to come (they don't have a natural relationship with SS) as it's the 1st family holiday for them with all their grandchildren.
Me and DH have just bought a house and are struggling to pay all the bills atm especially with Xmas coming up so we can't afford to pay SS'S share for the holiday.
DH has said he can't go without SS which I understand and feel awful about not being able to take him. But I suggested me and DDs still going as I'm not going to be able to afford to take them on holiday for years and years.
We are paying for SS to go on a residential school trip for a week next year aswell so I don't see it as he's been left out (which is how DH sees it) because he is going on a holiday with school.
I don't know what to do tbh because I do feel crappy for either the DDs missing out on a holiday with their grandparents & family or for going without DH and SS.
Any advice? Opinions? Personal experiences?

Sorry you think I'm unnecessarily nasty MulberryBush - I genuinely can't stand some of the things said by OP and I feel for the boy in question so much! I'm genuinely shocked OP blames her SS for the relationship with her parents, and thinks it's not leaving him out because of a school trip!
I couldn't be with someone who took that attitude in a matter like this.
If this matter is at all indicative of family life, I'm not surprised OP's SS sometimes stays away.
Poor boy.

This is similar to the time our boss at work gave 12 of his 14 staff £25 gift cards each for Christmas ... Apparently there wasn't enough money for two people to have gift cards

If his mum would say no as its term time, why is it an issue?

Agree with spangle, ask him if he wants to go. If he says no, fine. If he says yes, then that's for your DH to take up with his ex over the term time holiday issue.

I wouldn't be going on a holiday that my parents (or anyone) had to take a loan out to pay for.

It's totally unrealistic to think that step children should go on every holiday with each of their parents. They'd end up with 2x the holidays of their half-siblings that live both their parents

Why is that a problem? There is no legally set out per child holiday quota. If a parent is having a family holiday, the parent should be including all of their children. Of course there will always be exceptions, particularly with older or adult children, but the message sent otherwise is very unpleasant.

I'll say it again, would you leave one of your children at home because they had had a few days away with school?

No way would I be going on a holiday my parents had to take out a loan to cover - even if they can afford to pay it back over the next year or whatever, you have no idea if their circumstances will change. Ridiculous, no one should get into debt over a holiday!

No way would I be going, your family will save your parents 2K debt if you don't!

Good on your dh for saying he won't go. Having to shift between homes, house rules and being treated as an extra in the family is in no way compensated for by an extra holiday.

Little wonder why he cuts his visits down, he said very clearly unwelcome.

Who lets their parents get into debt for a holiday, a loan is debt whatever way you try and spin it.

Some people are very quick to Judge ! None of you LOT have a clue what the OPs parents situation is. As far as anyone knows there could be an extremely good reason for 'a trip of a lifetime ' with their grandchildren. As OP says, they can't pay up front but can pay the loan so maybe there is a time constraint like terminal illness that makes 'saving up' impossible.

I also don't agree that sc HAVE to be invited on ALL things ALL the time in this desperate bid to try and persuade everyone that life has to be equal at all times because their parents aren't together. ! Parents and Step parents tie themselves up in knots trying to make it all 'equal' when all you should aim for is 'fair'.

Look at this practically. This is not the parents holiday. This is the grandparents who want (for whatever reason - not our business) to take their dcs, spouses and GC abroad for a holiday. They are getting a loan so need to keep prices down. They do not have a relationship with DGSS , it doesn't matter why, they just don't, sometimes it's simply logistics and no ones fault. Distance between gps and OPs home, frequency of GPS visits coinciding with dss (who cancels often) and I would doubt he would travelling with his two pre school half siblings to visit them anyway. (Why would he want to) I expect he has no interest in your parents as he has gps of his own... so on that basis I think your DP is being very unfair to you and your dds. He is as MUCH a DF to his children with you as to his son. Just because he isn't invited on a holiday by someone he has no relationship with, nor by the sounds of it has ever had interest in, should your daughters be denied a holiday with their father.

You should all go. DS wouldn't be allowed anyway and certainly wouldn't enjoy the pre school dynamic aged 12 plus it would be awkward if he doesn't really know your parents.

It is your DH job to save up and take him away by himself, doing something age appropriate for a 12 yr old. Not enduring hanging out with toddlers .

I have children, step children who are both resident and NR as well as being a stepchild, step sibling and half sibling. It's hard, just stop trying to make it equal. It's not and never will be. Just be kind and thoughtful.

Wow. Totally disagree with that.

It's one thing that things will never be equal, but that doesn't mean it's ok to exclude children. 'Things will never be equal so don't try?'

And I don't see any kindness in this situation.

My friend's ex takes his children with his current wife away on holiday without his daughter, and she feels crushed by it. She tells her mum that she doesn't feel like she is part of her dad's family. It is heartbreaking. She's soon to turn 12, year 7.

I am so sad for this boy.

Hahahaha I am getting old and sounding increasingly like the mother from 'Miranda' who emphasises the wrong word in a sentence..
That should read. NONE of you lot..

To be honest you've openly admitted they don't want him to come so I guess he must sense their attitude about him,kids aren't daft even if I had the money I wouldn't be going and I wouldn't put my DS in a situation whereby his presence was begrudged from the start

Well let's put it this way. It's not a family holiday without my stepson because he's part of my family. It would be the same as leaving my husband behind.

We don't - and never have - always taken holidays as a family of five. Every possible configuration has gone on:

• DP, me, DSS1 and DSS2
• me, DD, DSS1
• DP, DSS1, DSS2, DD
• DP, DSS1, DSS2
• DP, me
• DP, DD
• DP, DSS2, DD
• DSS2, DD

Etc etc

Because there is no 'one size fits all' with dcs/dscs/step families...

If this child was similar in age, had known the GPS his whole life and been bought up as a grandchild to them. Seeing them frequently and having a good relationship (doesn't need to be close, but a good firm relationship), then it would be a different story . Not every step family has dsc who have intimate relationships with their step-parents parents. If they did, this situation would be very unpleasant. If they don't then it's just not as important as many would like to think.

The age dynamic here is important. I assume OP that your siblings on the holiday are of a similar age to you and their dcs equally little ? As they are able to travel out of term time ? So, there is a set of gps, their children , spouses and preschool children. Add to that mix a 12 yr old the parents (and by extension the aunts/uncles ) he doesn't really know.
All this is now expected to be refused and the OP and her children denied a holiday with their DF & GPS because of some sense of 'equality' ..
Sometimes you just have to except that different things happen. My step children go on 3 or 4 foreign holidays a year. My children don't . They are not psychologically disturbed because of it. They just get on with it. !

Finally some common sensemarilyn

OP, before your DPs go too far down the road of finding a different Holiday to suit, why don't you
A) ask SS if he wants to go IF it can be arranged
B) ask his mother for permission to take him

If either of those answers is no, you don't have to make changes and your DH should go along as well.

It is nor for anyone to judge your parents.
I think your aSS should be included. It might be your parents and you go 50/50.
As someone said above ask him and his mum. The answer mat already be made.

I really don't get this sense of 'begrudge' or on the other hand deep distress from stepchildren at not being included in Step-grandparent activities. If the GPS live nearby, sc live with you and therefore see dsgc often then I can absolutely see the upset at non inclusion but where this ISNT the case then why is it not ok to accept that the step son has TWO sets of natural gps Both of whom could take DSS on holiday without including his preschool siblings. No one would blink. It just needs to be fair. Sit down, talk to him . He's 12 not 2. Tell him this holiday is your parents and all the little ones in term time and not something he would enjoy but you are going to book something special for him and his dad (if he would prefer) or you guys and his half siblings (if he would prefer ) he will probably jump at the idea of some 1-1 time with his dad as contact is probably quite hard going with preschoolers,, hence his keep cancelling.

Ask them if they will take another 450 on the loan to pay for him and you'll pay it off over time?
Don't go with only part of your family, I think that could really hurt.

I also don't agree that sc HAVE to be invited on ALL things ALL the time in this desperate bid to try and persuade everyone that life has to be equal at all times because their parents aren't together.
I agree with this, as stated before, but this holiday is not ALL things, it's a one off very special family event, something they according to OP, they would be unlikely to reproduce even the 5 of them, so that makes it very different to a regular holiday of not much significance. In this case, it's making a real decision to EXCLUDE one child.

Parents and Step parents tie themselves up in knots trying to make it all 'equal' when all you should aim for is 'fair'.
Ha ha, you just have to come here to see that was is fair is very dependent on who is the one losing out. You read the thread next to this one, and you have one step-parent moaning that it is unfair that her 2yo doesn't get £300 worth of presents like their half-sibling who in any case will get more with their mum. Fair works both ways, you can't say that something is fair when it suits you and unfair when it doesn't. My rule is that any child who is deliberately excluded is treated unfairly, regardless of the situation.

Thank God his dad understands this, and no, he isn't being unreasonable at all since he hasn't told OP that she can't go, just that he won't. Surely that is his choice.

This is always a controversial one.

My step dc's go on holiday twice a year without their half siblings or their dad. So I don't see why my dc shouldn't go on holiday if it doesn't include their half siblings. Especially when if the half siblings were included it would mean none of us went as our holiday budget is less than 1k/year

Step dc went on a huge trip to disney last year, paid for by grandparents. With mum and stepdad. so if my parents offered my dc the same, i'd go.

But why is everyone so insistent a child they don't know of a completely different age , HAVE to be included in a term time holiday. SS doesn't know the SGPs very well and vice versa. Not hostile just visits don't coincide and no relationships are formed.

All this 'but he is part of our family ' where does it stop. ? For example you have 3 dcs with your DH. 3,3,2. Your friends invite you to stay at their holiday home for 3 days at half term. No cost, it's a freebie. DH has holiday he can take , but DH has a son. Aged 13. He is with his mother on holiday. Do you accept ? Or do you refuse on the grounds that you cannot take holidays without ALL children? Thereby refusing everyone a holiday except the sc?

I have DSC, although slightly different as we have full residency. My parents have never at any point treated them differently from their DGC even when we didn't have them full time.

My DSis also has a DSD who they have 50/50 with her DH exW. My parents have also treated her the same.

When we have gone on holiday as a family we have all gone and we are doing so between Christmas and new year.

It's hardly surprising that non resident children are so reluctant to spend time with the NRP and their new family when it is made so clear that they are not actually considered a part of the family.

The fact here is that the reason why the child doesn't live there permanently is not down to the child but down to the adults in its life. If resident children were being excluded by the DH's parents everyone would be up in arms about how unfair that was, but because this is a non resident child it's perfectly OK to exclude him on the basis he's not really a part of the family. .

Ultimately this family consists of two adults and three children, one who is the father's child and the other two who are the mother's. But as they are now a family all the children have equal relevance within that family, or should have. What the non resident child does within their other parent's family is not relevant here any more than what the other two children do with their father.

The DH and the other two husbands are not biologically related either, yet no-one would argue that it was ok to exclude them from a family holiday. So why is it ok to exclude a child and single them out as not part of the family?

If it were my child I wouldn't be going. And I would be questioning my relationship with someone who was happy for their children to be favoured over their partner's children when they agreed to take on step children as part of the relationship.

If the mother says no then she says no. But assumptions should not be made on that basis. Nobody should be deliberately excluding any child when they are completely at ease paying for non biological married in adults.

So I don't see why my dc shouldn't go on holiday if it doesn't include their half siblings
Because a holiday is not so much about having fun away from home, it's also about spending special time with parents. It can be hard enough for a kid to accept that other children get to spend more time with their father, to also have to cope with accepting that they get to spend the fun time with him when they don't.

All the arguments here seem to be about the fact that step kids get enough holidays already. Why showing so much resentment over this?

In any case, it's quite straight forward to me, either dad says no and doesn't go (as is the case here) or agrees and goes, but then needs to accept that their child will most likely feel rejected and as a way to cope with it, will detach themselves. You can't have it both ways.