Advice urgently needed!

[NowSissyThatWalk]

Will try and keep this short. Was going to post in AIBU but thought this more appropriate and I'm a wuss
My DP and his ExW are going through a divorce.
We have his 4 children 3 times a week. I get on with them very well and care about them deeply. They seem to love spending time here and adore their dad, who is a brilliant father.
Since we've been together, if we need to go anywhere, we put three in his car and one in mine. We go to their DGM, days out etc. and they always fight as to who will come in my car
A few weeks ago we were getting ready to leave and the eldest said 'Mum says we're not allowed to go in Sissys car' when DP asked why she said 'In case we have a crash'
???
I was a bit upset, mainly because they all looked so uncomfortable and torn and it shouldn't be down to them to relay that.
DP spoke to them calmly and said that was a bit silly because they are not anymore likely to have a crash in my car than anyone else's. (FWIW, I have passed a specific tactical driving course for my job and have never had anything even close to a crash)
They agreed and we sort of just let it go, they continued to come in my car as and when.
Today the exW called him and cut a long story short she says if they come in my car when their here then she will not let him see them
Please help.
It's unreasonable right?? I feel like I'm going crazy.
Everytime I think of them being put in this position it makes me so upset, because I know how torn their loyalties must be. Likewise I feel if we bend to this ridiculous whim just to stop her withdrawing contact we will always be at her mercy.
Oh and it's perfectly safe with all the right car seats etc so it's not that.

AIBU to think this is ridiculous? And is there anything we can do??

Just and very - stop ganging up on the Op, leaved her alone, you've put your views across.

We last posted two hours ago you silly arse.

Helpfully, I might add.

Don't be silly out. It was a three way conversation which the OP was fully engaged in, answering questions and offering points of her own. Without that input she may have incited her DP to send that aggressive and provocative email and unleashed a whole new world of sh*t for all concerned.

There's an app called sidekick that shows when she opens it and how often. Very useful in these situations.

Just popping in to make a polite request for calm and kindness...
We've no reason to believe OP is anything other than entirely genuine so please offer her the support she needs.

I mean this in a very kind way, but you've only been with the man a year, only met the kids 6 months ago, haven't experienced living with him yet and yet you seem to think you are strongly entitled to decide how your partner should act in relation to his ex.

Frankly, start this way and you are opening the gates for years of misery. You are totally overstepping your position. It is not for you to conclude that if you give in to her demands, it will mean she can use the excuse of stopping contact any time. You have no idea if that is true or not.

You are implying that this is likely to happen but yet so far, it seems that contact has been regular. You have also hinted that one child will be moving with you, which is quite odd considering your situation.

My gut feeling is that one of the child made a mention about your driving to their mum that's what triggered the whole thing. Probably the reason why she told the kids, not in a 'I forbid you to ever go in her car' but in a 'mmm, maybe it might be safer if you just hop in daddy's car'.You might think you are a wonderful driver but supposedly we all think that!

The bottom line is that you are absolutely right that she shouldn't dictate who drives the children when they are with their dad, but when it comes to being worried, mums don't care any longer about being fair to the other partner. There is a very easy alternative and that is that indeed, your partner takes them all in his car, but clearly, your position is about principle rather than practicality.

If you'd been together for 5 years, and this was the nth time she was making threats of cutting contact, then maybe I could see your point, but as it is, you're whizzing into the life of her kids at high speed, and the break is still fresh so starting of by confronting her over something that most likely will blow over in a few months if starting ww3 which will pollute your life much worse than by driving alone when you go out.

Back of and focus on building your life with your new partner and relationship with his kids.

If he's that worried of losing contact, surely he'd just do the driving and you can follow behind.

For a recent girlfriend, you are way over involved. His ex and their choices for the children are nothing to do with you. Those poor children have barely gotten used to the split and now their dad is putting your wishes to drive them over the concerns of their other actual parent. It's very clear his priorities are not his children but you already.

If he was grown up, he'd have just had a chat with her to understand her feelings and where she's coming from. You getting involved and stirring things up with way OTT emails will simply make the ex take a stance that will end back firing against you.

Hi OP. I have been exactly where you are. You don't need to be put down by a bunch of bitter ex wives or any mumsnet 'rules' about how long you need to have been with your OP before you are entitled to have an opinion. I met my DH in the December. He moved in in April, I met his kids in April and he moved in with mine. We married 2 yrs later. Married nearly a decade.

This sort of nonsense started from day 1. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with concerns about safety. It's ALL about control. We had 'not allowed in Marilyn's car ' 'Not allowed to share a bedroom with Marilyn's children' ' Not allowed to go on holiday with Marilyn and Marilyn's DCs as this takes focus away from time with Daddy' followed by multiple attempts to 'arrange' sports clubs, and weekly activities for one child (there were 5 - some grown up now) over 50 miles away from our home.

We had to nip this in the bud from the start. The biggest problem was the fact that there were no court orders. These demands were made with the caveat of ' bow to my demands or you don't see the children'.. After three years when we were enduring another refusal to let him see them on the basis of whatever took her fancy, we finally went to court. Unbelievable that we didn't do it before. Best £212 we ever spent. Judge made it absolutely clear that she had NO say in anything a 'responsible and loving father' chose to do, or indeed who he chose to do it with, whilst HIS children were in HIS care. This extended to the father having the right to decided who cared for his dcs if and when he was unavailable. The court order additionally had something written in to it stating that neither parent were permitted to interfere with the parenting choices of the other, whilst children resided with them.

It didn't stop,it entirely but it did mean that enabled my DH to grow a pair and stand up to his ex.
The bitterness served no purpose in the end though as the older children got so pissed off with the denigration of their father, that they moved in with us as soon as court would permit at 13 & 14.

As for its none of your business ??? He is your DP. He is in tears, she is using your presence as an excuse to control him. Send the email. Fire that shot. Hopefully she will take heed. If not, pay your £212 and get contact signed up,officially and preempt any more nonsense .

Well said Marilyn.

Bravo Marilyn. Exactly that.

Just to say, I think taking one of the DSC in your car when you go places is lovely thing to do. It's a chance for a bit of one to one time and to build a relationship.

My DH has 4 DC too, I've always noticed that they're often quite short of one to one time with any adult, especially when parents are separated. 3 in the back of a car can be quite squished too, so lovely that you're happy to take one and spend some time with them.

There is nothing to congratulate when ultimately the kids are the one suffering from the actions of adults who are much more bothered with their rights and scoring points than to consider the effects this gas in the kids.

When you decide to waltz in young children's lives because it suits you don't expect to recieve the welcome you expect. It takes time and a lot of patience (including swallowing of pride) to make sure that the children are as unaffected as much as possible by their parents' actions.

Marilynsbig, here's a clue for you; the women of the world are not divided into 'bitter ex wives' () and women who move their DC in with strange men weeks after meeting them. Most women have much more mainstream experiences

I was posting from my experience as a SM (my DC have never had a SM themselves).

I'll just throw this in:
As a mother to a child who has a stepmother, I would hate this cosy 1:1 time.

I would mind less if it were 2 kids per car, or even 3 with SM to enable 1:1 with their actual parent. I have 2 SC too btw - older when I met their father, though. I think a SM is a really important role, but not as important as the actual parent. Hence supporting 1:1 with father over SM.

I am objectively really pleased that my child likes her SM and I am outwardly very supportive about that, positive about her.

But it hurts like fuck that my child is with another woman and if I found out they were having 1:1 time - agh get she doesn't with her father now - I'd be upset.

Even if I thought it were for the greater good, I would bite my lip - but still feel upset.

The XW is being unreasonable.

But before you take that hammer of an email to crack this nut, maybe think about how she feels about you 1:1 with one of her children.

I'm the happiest ex wife there ever was thanks, also my children don't have a step mother but my own mother was one and she was a complete nightmare to her step child. Very easy and rather limited to dismiss the concerns of mothers as the jealous rantings of bitter ex wives.

I fail to see how OP has waltzed into these young children's lives 'because it suits her' and is getting. 'Welcome she doesn't expect ??? ' I think you need to read the OP again Swing. The children, their father and his children were actually getting along perfectly well no one had an 'unexpected welcome'

OP sounds genuinely kind and affectionate to her Dsc and equally concerned for her dps happiness. There is no actual law on how long you need to be with someone before they are considered part of your family, sometimes, you just know. In this case the OP and her DP seem very together and focussed on his dcs.

The only conflict being created , is from the child's mother. Most children want their parents to be happy. For the mother to create this unnecessary conflict and make them 'choose sides' between making mummy happy (not going in OP's car) and making daddy happy (making OP feel included by travelling with her) is a completely unacceptable position to put the children in. For this reason alone the mother is in the wrong. She should have discussed it via email or in person with the father of her children and left the dcs out of it.

I will agree with you regarding point scoring though and this is the most unhelpful situation between estranged parents.
In situations like this, we have found that a court order is absolutely worth its weight in gold. Especially if it prohibits in writing either parent interfering with the other parents parenting decisions during their time with the children. It simply allows each parent to have the right to look after their child as they see fit and leaves no ambiguity and reduces opportunities for point scoring.

I think it's absurd to suggest that a child shouldn't travel in their dad's GF's car. What if the dad wanted to go out for the day with his mum. Would it be wrong for her to take one child in her car for some one to one time, because only the child's mother is allowed that?

My DC have a step mum and I'm nothing but delighted if she does anything with them.

Well said navylilly when all said and done isn't it lovely for a sm/fathers DP to like and enjoy the company of her DSC . ? Isn't that a fantastic thing and to be encouraged at every turn ?

Imagine what an awful situation it would be for the children if the sm/fathers partner was horrible, alienated the children from the father and generally resented their presence ?

My dcs have a wonderful sm, it was a huge comfort when they were small, that she was around. My ex, whilst never feckless or lazy, could at times be genuinely a bit clueless with young dcs and I was eternally grateful sm was around to fill any gaps.

I had this. & bizarrely the court agreed !

They said if ex was not happy with children being in my car then that should be respected!!

Joke of it was I have clean license no crashes etc my exh ( husband at the time) had 6 points on license and virtually no claims discount due to accidents!

I can see this from both sides too I'm afraid.

OP of course the ex wife can't dictate and withhold contact on a whim, but her concern is her children's safety and she doesn't know you, doesn't know what car you drive, how you drive it and as you don't have dc of your own maybe that worries her too (I became a much safer driver when I had my kids because I felt so protective of them and was more aware of the whole car and the risks involved). I am always a bit nervous when my dc go in the car of someone I don't know, they are teens now but I still hold my breath a bit when they go on a long journey without me. It's irrational I know but it happens and you hear such horrible stories in the news of car crashes.
For Gods sake don't send that email! It will get her back up. She has told him how she feels and I don't see why he can't respect that. Of course she can't dictate how you spend your time but in this case if you give her a bit of respect and let her know she's being listened to then maybe it will ease the way for better communication in the future. It sounds like they are able to talk reasonably at the moment so try to keep it that way and don't go getting all legal and official on her .
In the long run it is better for the dc for all the adults in their life to get on and they shouldn't be dragged into conflicts - especially over something which is unnecessary - it wouldn't be the end of the world for them all to travel with their dad would it?

So besides this issue, what are the others that makes you concerned that she will use to stop contact, if that is what she ultimately wants to achieve?

I wonder if it's just the OP's car, or maybe even the ex's car when the OP drives.
If we go on a long journey we do half the driving each.

I wonder if it is the 'one on one time' as a pp said she would dislike; worries about the OP's driving; or she genuinely doesn't let them go in anyone else's car except her and ex when they alone are driving............or just a tendency to be difficult?

Oh she sounds delightful! You sure you won't this for the next 15-odd years?
About 6 months into mine and dh's relationship we had a similar issue where ex through a hissy fit because we put sdd in the middle seat of the back seat. In a secure appropriate car seat all strapped in but apparently the middle seat is too dangerous (sdd was 18months btw). About a year later she picked her up and didn't have any car seat at all.
Last year she through another tantrum about me having sdd for 4 hrs when Dh had to go to work. We'd been married 3years by then but nope, I should still never have her. Unfortunately she also had to work that day so left sdd with her boyfriend of 2 months.
Get used to the double standards, it doesn't get any easier.