Advice urgently needed!

[NowSissyThatWalk]

Will try and keep this short. Was going to post in AIBU but thought this more appropriate and I'm a wuss
My DP and his ExW are going through a divorce.
We have his 4 children 3 times a week. I get on with them very well and care about them deeply. They seem to love spending time here and adore their dad, who is a brilliant father.
Since we've been together, if we need to go anywhere, we put three in his car and one in mine. We go to their DGM, days out etc. and they always fight as to who will come in my car
A few weeks ago we were getting ready to leave and the eldest said 'Mum says we're not allowed to go in Sissys car' when DP asked why she said 'In case we have a crash'
???
I was a bit upset, mainly because they all looked so uncomfortable and torn and it shouldn't be down to them to relay that.
DP spoke to them calmly and said that was a bit silly because they are not anymore likely to have a crash in my car than anyone else's. (FWIW, I have passed a specific tactical driving course for my job and have never had anything even close to a crash)
They agreed and we sort of just let it go, they continued to come in my car as and when.
Today the exW called him and cut a long story short she says if they come in my car when their here then she will not let him see them
Please help.
It's unreasonable right?? I feel like I'm going crazy.
Everytime I think of them being put in this position it makes me so upset, because I know how torn their loyalties must be. Likewise I feel if we bend to this ridiculous whim just to stop her withdrawing contact we will always be at her mercy.
Oh and it's perfectly safe with all the right car seats etc so it's not that.

AIBU to think this is ridiculous? And is there anything we can do??

Just thinking it would make life much easier and save having to take two cars every time they are over.. Not just to placate the ex

Surely the best way forward is trying to understand her fears? Maybe she heard something about your driving that is unfunded but need reassured of it. Or maybe her best friend kid got injured whilst in their step mothers car and that has made her anxious. Who knows but if she is rely anxious at the prospect of the kids being in your car her need to protect her kids will be her priority so tell her to get lost is indeed likely to involve her refusing contact ending up in court etc... a waste for everyone if all can be resolved by giving her the reassurance she needs.

Maybe she heard something about your driving that is unfunded but need reassured of it. Or maybe her best friend kid got injured whilst in their step mothers car and that has made her anxious

So let's flip that around and say that OP's partner feels that way and demands that his children don't go in a car with anyone he doesn't know. Reasonable?

As for the comment about friend's kids injured in step moms car? Are you for real?

The advice is correct - but logically it would make sense if he got a people carrier anyway cos this is only going to cause you both problems at some point. Most people I know with four kids have seven seaters.

Btw, them going all in his car is no different to three going with him and one going with you; you still take two cars, you just don't have company.

It is unreasonable of the Ex to say that they can't go in the car, and as others have suggested, an email or text would be good. I wouldn't make it a long one though, and I'd start off by being firm, short, but a little compassionate too.

You say that they are going through a divorce. This suggests to me that it is a relatively recent split. You are the first relationship on either side? It is likely that feelings may be very raw, and the Ex, seeing her DP move on quickly, may also be quite hurt. People who are hurt do irrational things. I'm not excusing her, and god knows my DPs Ex is a nightmare. But I did give her at least a year of leeway, trying to not be in her face or stir up bad feeling.

Also, four kids are at yours 3 times a week? That sounds a little crazy, why isn't it all in one go? Are they back and forth a lot? That may be a sign of your DP and Ex trying to co parent with a lot of potential for friction.

If ex had actually raised the issue with OP's DP in the first place in a reasonable manner and asked for reassurance, I'd have said deal with it firmly but compassionately because, as PP suggested, she may be be prohecting fears re another situation onto this one. But she didnt. She put the children in an awkward situation of having to tell OP they weren't allowed in her car. Now she has demanded that they dont go in the car instead of talking about it reasonably, and threatened withdrawal of contact if this is not done. It doesn't sound like she's seeking reassurance about the childrens safety, it sounds like she wants to control their interactions with OP. Therefore I say respond with a clear message that says their father will be making the decisions when they are with him, not her.

Agree that you should take out the "and Sissy" bit if there's a chance that could inflame the situation. I actually only phrased it that way to make it clear to ex that Dad is taking responsibility for decisions, not expecting her to co parent with Sissy (eg. "Sissy and I will make decisions about their safety when they are with us").

Agree entirely with So - acknowledge her request (however unreasonable and awkward it makes the children feel) but please please do not bend over backwards to accommodate something that is accompanied with a threat. It could start a precedence of her insisting on unreasonable and frankly complicated requests that she'll back up with the threats of withholding contact. We've found that threats are often 'boundary pushers' to try and exert control and a firm 'No, he is under our care and we do not question your parenting' is more or less sufficient to quieten the ex for a few months.

So let's flip that around and say that OP's partner feels that way and demands that his children don't go in a car with anyone he doesn't know. Reasonable?
If my ex had at any time informed me that he was concerned about my kids being in my OH's car, my first response would have been to try to understand why and reassure him. it's horrible to be concerned about the safety of your children and I wouldn't want to have been scared at the prospect if for some reason, he had it in his head that they wouldn't be with him. Who knows, someone could have said that they heard that he had been driving drunk once, would have been totally unfunded, but it's amazing how rumours go.

I don't like my ex, we have little contact, but he is the father of my children, the man who once upon a time I thought was good enough to be so, so the little I can do is respect his fears for the children he loves as much as I do.

I find the belligerent attitude of some SM mothers on this forum quite shocking frankly. It's not about rights and entitlement, it's about what is best for the children, and in this case, the best for them is to have a reassured mum, especially if all it takes to resolve the issue is a simple conversation.

Swing - I totally agree, except the ex in the OP choose not to speak to the father of the children. What you've said would have been very reasonable if the ex had concerns - but the ex has taken it upon herself to voice her concerns to the children and not the father. As it stands, all the ex has said is that the kids can't go in the car (without explaining why) and that if they do, the father risks losing access/contact.

Personally, if my DP was concerned about the welfare of his son, the LAST thing he would do would be to project that concern onto his son - he would speak to his ex. The OPs ex hasn't done this, and worse still, she has created awkwardness for the children who are quite happy to go into Sissys car but cannot without truly knowing why - this in itself could create and manifest fear and anxiety. Had the ex spoke to the father, like you said you would, there would be no awkwardness and no potential anxiety.

If the ex wanted reassurance, which of course is entirely understandable, she would speak to the father. She doesn't appear to want reassurance whatsoever, but instead has insisted on a request that has a very serious threat thrown in, without explaining why she feels so strongly.

Sorry but I can’t see where OP says that she won’t speak to her ex. The OP indicates that she had been driving the kids for some time until the issue came up a few weeks ago, so either OP/the kids lied to her until then (if she was so concerned, I would expect she would have asked), or something happened that made her become suddenly concerned. Maybe it took only a silly comment like ‘SM drives much faster than dad and was passing all the cars the other day’, with mum saying ‘were you scared’ and the kid to respond ‘a bit, but it was fun too’, and that’s it, you’ve got a scared mum.

Most situation as such arise from misunderstanding, and from my perspective, it is a real pity that the only solution envisaged is to escalate into a real conflict rather than to try to clear up the misunderstanding.

Didn't want to read and run but I'm just leaving for work and want to clarify the ex perhaps being worried about my driving.
I thought the same thing too. However, when DP yesterday on the phone asked her why she said she 'Dorsn't like them going in cars of people who aren't family'

Not sure what she does when they go to play dates, etc.
She has a new DP and my DP asked iif they go in his car. She said no. (She does have a 7 seater)
That's her prerogative, not ours though right?
We will be writing that email today, thanks so much for the advice.

Swing - The fact is the ex speaks to the father, that line of communication is open and all it would take would be ex to say 'Please could kids go in with you because I have concerns about xyz' - the ex choose not to, but instead relied on the kids to pass that piece of information on, despite the fact the kids had no issue with it. It's not about OP or her DP encouraging conflict - it's about the fact OPs DP has been threatened with access limitation - if that isn't trying to encourage conflict, I don't know what is! Furthermore, if the ex was that concerned about the fact the kids were in the car, surely she would express that concern with the father? But no, she's chosen to project it through the kids instead. If I need reassurance about my child, I go directly to the root of the concern, don't you?

Sissy has even said that she wondered whether it was her driving, which shows her clear lack of wanting to blame the ex, but rather understand the root of the concern. Her latest post confirms it's not to do with concern over the children's safety, but because ex doesn't like it. Nothing about the kids safety, concerns a or needs. And what's worse, is that the ex has threatened a very serious right the father has to see his children without really clarifying why - not wanting the kids to go in the car because they're 'not family' is a way of controlling the father - if we had a reverse here we'd be calling the father controlling and trying to get to the mother, and same can be potentially applied here.

Swing - I totally get what you mean about reassuring the mother. But the ex hasn't looked for reassurance - she's just demanded a request and threatened the father. Surely you can see that's not in the spirit of wanting to preserve harmony? All OP and DP want to do is to ensure they are not being unreasonable and what experience other people have in this situation - there are plenty of people with experience that bending over backwards for requests that are wrapped in threats are precisely what causes serious conflict further down the line.

Sorry typo - her clear lack of NOT wanting to blame the ex

Buttmuncher
Thanks so much for that. I am at work now and as you can see will be a highly valued colleague all day

We will be sending that email and we WILL be making it very clear from the outset that these ridiculous demands are not acceptable and if she had any concerns that were genuine she should always come to my DP, not put the kids in a difficult position.

We are both just so nervous that she'll follow through on it. It is my DP's worst nightmare. They are his world. He is not a crier but he cried on the phone to his DM last night. It will break him if she does and I can't help but feel partly responsible, as it's my car. I know we shouldn't give in, and we won't, I can't help feeling guilty though.

To clarify - It is not personal to me or my driving. She simply doesn't like them going in anyones else car who isn't 'family'
They have been separated for nearly two years.

How long have you and dp been together? How old is youngest dsc?

I think the line he wants to take is that she needs to trust him as their father to keep them safe, and make his own decisions about what is and what isn't OK. This may include him letting them go in cars with other people sometimes - eg on play dates, with friends, or with you. Try and make it as not about you as possible, and about each respecting each other as parents - point out that he doesn't quiz the kids on whether they've ever been in anyone else's car, or in anyone else's care when they're in their mum's care, because he respects her right to make those decisions and trusts that she's a good mum. And that he needs her to show a bit of faith in him too.

If she can identify any specific concerns (sitting in the back maybe?) that he could compromise on, then that might be good. She is out of order, but she does unfortunately have the power to make things very difficult for your DP, so good if he can deal with it as gently as possible, whilst also being clear that this is not a reasonable request. He could also reassure her that it's OK (and best) to come to him direct if she has other worries about the kids - rather than making them worried about what it is and isn't OK to do when they're with their dad.

I find the belligerent attitude of some SM mothers on this forum quite shocking frankly.

Not sure if this was addressed to me but I want to clarify that I am not nor have I ever been a stepmother. My children do have a stepmother though so I hang about this board to retain a balanced perspective about issues that may arise. I still think the ex in this situation. Was being ridiculous and if concerned then she went about it in a shitty way.

But what I don't get is that from your first OP, you are implying that this has only happened in the last few weeks, so does it mean that for quite some time, the kids did go in his car only, and this only changed recently, or you have been together only very recently so they only started to get into your car very recently?

It does seem that she has some abnormal fear about her kids being in cars of people she is not familiar with. Unfunded, but it's there and if it is closed to a phobia, then yes, she is likely to prevent access.

How about your OH says that the kids will only go in his car (after all, doing so is not preventing you enjoying your days out), but tells her that it is not sustainable and demands that she meets with him to discuss this in detail as her behaviour is not normal.

Swing We have been together for a year. I met the kids 6 months ago.
As far as we knew it wasn't an issue (because why would it be?) until the children bought it up a few weeks ago when we were about to leave to go somewhere.
Phobia or not (and really I don't think it is something like that, surely she would have told my DP about it herself and much sooner than 6 months in if that was genuinely the case) it is completely unsubstantiated and unreasonable.
I fear if we give in to this, even temporarily, then she will forever be able to threaten to take the kids away from him because she knows it will work.
It is a horrible position to put them in and frankly I would also feel pretty crap.
I have worked incredibly hard to build a caring, fun and nurturing relationship with his children and to have the message sent to them that no matter what their DM says, however unreasonable, we will do it, even if it means me not going places with them or following behind like some sort of cast off, is, in my opinion, going to do much more damage to them in the long run then putting our foot down now.

If it's a phobia, which is highly doubtful, it seems unlikely the dp could have managed to have four kids with her without being aware of it, eh?
I mean, kids are always going in cars with friends etc.
Plus, if it was a phobia why is it restricted to 'family' and not just to her and the dp?
My dp insists his family are my family (I don't agree) so the definition of 'family' is loose anyway. The Op dp could just say "no problem, Sissy is family" :)

And he can't 'demand that she meets him to discuss it in more detail' any more than she can demand he doesn't allow the kids in Sissy's car.

Thank you Out

It's clear to me at least that she is clutching at straws to stop contact.
The children love their father and he loves them so much, she is not acting in their best interests and as many of you have said, that will not be looked upon well in court.

I worry for him though as this may be just the tip of the iceberg of what she's willing to take them away for. He's strong at the moment what with writing the email, he's looking into getting mediation done ASAP for the two of them, but I worry that the more she threatens it the more his resolve will weaken.

They're just going through a divorce? Is your relationships a fairly recent development then? Could you not just be mindful that it might take some getting used to for her? Just for a bit?