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Help needed over Birth Mother's demands!

123 replies

zazas · 07/12/2006 17:05

OK Mothering voices of reason, I need some advice!

BM of my DP's 2 children has decided to go on holiday to India in Jan for 16 days. She believes that it is DP's responsibility to have the children with us over this time. No problem in having them here per se (we currently have them one night a week and alternative weekends) but it would mean that DP would have to finish work at 2.50pm each day to pick them up from school and not start work until 9.30 each day after dropping them - about an hour round trip to their village where they live and go to school - 2 hours driving a day for him. While we own our own business, it involves long hours and often DP does not finish until 7pm to get the work done. Financially we can't afford for him to cut down his hours like this nor can we get the work done (already booked up for this period) if he reduces his hours like this.

He has suggested he will still have them the one night a week and then over both weekends she is away from Friday (2pm when they finish school) until Monday morning and that she gets her Mother to stay the other nights. By the way they are 6 and 7, mine are 5 and 8 and we are expecting a baby together in April.

BM is now playing the 'guilt' card and saying that they are his kids too and his responsibility etc etc. She finishes work each day at 3.30pm to pick them up so it is his turn. This obviously ignores the fact she finishes work early because he pays her maintenance / we buy all the kids clothes and shoes and pay for any extra activities and school lunches! Plus she gets child allowanace / working tax credit and child benefit because they are resident with her! `~ (maybe why she can afford the holiday )

Anyway I think she is being unreasonable, as does DP but feels under preassure as she plays the 'they are your kids' card. The impact on us all will be large if this happens and I guess what makes me angry is that it is over a holiday - she had 2 weeks on her own with BF in August in France so she is hardly desperate for one!

Any thoughts - advice so we can sort this out?!!!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
ChristmasCaroligula · 13/12/2006 18:57

Cod keep up! I have a vision of you in the corner with a hot toddy going "eh? what did she say? eh?" (In between bouts of insoucience)

FluffyMummy123 · 13/12/2006 18:58

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6beetrootsAmilking · 13/12/2006 18:59

so do we need a bottle of now?

zazas · 13/12/2006 19:03

We are working on the kid pick up situation at the moment as a solution.

But I will say it for the last time if DP's ex had done it this way at the start... "I would like to go on holiday end Jan for 2 weeks and while I know that you will love to have the kids I appreciate that it will be difficult to finish work early everyday so I have asked some Mothers if they can have the kids until 5.30 on the nights that you can't get there early, how does that sound?" Then all would be OK (except for the excessive travelling) and I wouldn't have spent so much time on this thread!

Stupid woman for not considering DP or the kids for that matter and even offering some suggestions from the start except for the remark - "your kids - you sort it out"!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Judy1234 · 13/12/2006 19:07

Well I think it's pathetic. I have my five children about 365 nights a year because they're father doesn't think 50/50 is fair and barely does 0.001%. I think your partner shoudl have the chidlren 5-0% of the time and pay for childcare the res tof the time if he's working just like working mothers who have their chidlren with them all year have to do. 16 days abroad is a tiny bit of what the mother must be doing all the year.

But English law doesn't allow a parent to make the other parent ever see their children so any mother or father can simply refuse ever to see the children if they choose. There's no remedy.

Being a parent should involve responsibilities as well as the nice bits of the ocasional fun trips. It should be 5 x as much getting up in the night when they're sick time as going to the park with them and 16 nights is a tiny contribution and absolutely reasonable. What if she said next year I wil lhave them the number of nights you had them the year before? That would be fair wouldn't it?

Frostythesurfmum · 13/12/2006 19:07

Zazas I don't think you're being unreasonable. I think it was very rude of her to book the holiday without discussing it with your dh first. Would you make arrangements to do something and then tell her the contact arrangements have to change? I doubt it, and if you did I'll bet she wouldn't like being told and not asked.

For us, and it sounds like you too, it goes without saying that we'll have dsd whenever she wants/needs to come to us, this is her home too. But when you run your own business (my dh does too) you can't just let customers down and cancel jobs at short notice, because the next time they need some work they will phone a competitor, so some notice to a change in the arrangements is needed. You can make a lifestyle choice to work fewer hours to have more contact if it's going to be a permanent arrangement, but who would want to work fewer hours just in case you might need to have time off. Doesn't make sense to me - especially when you have children in 2 families to provide for.

It sounds like you're bending over backwards to try and make this work.

zazas · 13/12/2006 19:16

Xenia - what you are having a go about is not our situation - we have them about 40% of the time - good bits and bad - f they are sick they still come to us etc.

Problem is they don't live that close - whole gist of the problem for starters. Fine if we swapped and we had residency - just have to swap the kids school!

As for child care - EX collects tax credits etc to cover this and we always have them when she needs to work longer hours - although she chooses not to often. Plus financially DP enables her to not work full time so she can pick up the kids from school - something everyone wants and agrees on.

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Frostythesurfmum · 13/12/2006 19:17

That must be difficult for you Xenia. My dh is in the opposite position. We would love to have dsd for the same number of nights as her mum had this year, but her mum thinks it's unfair if we have her any more than we do, and that's 2 nights/days every 21 to her 19.

mozhe · 13/12/2006 20:52

He is the children's father and must have them when his ex-wife cannot or will not.End of story.You as his dp must pitch in, such is family life....on no account let these poor children think anything other than you can barely contain yourselves with the excitment of them coming to stay...again.Sorry it might not be what you want to hear.

AmericanPie · 13/12/2006 20:59

xenia,

DH and I have our kids 365 days of the year as well! Do we deserve a medal? No! thats why we had kids.....we have a BM who always 'needs a break'. FFS, why does that break involve more work for me??

She already has every other weekend 'off' - how many mothers can say that!

ChristmasCaroligula · 13/12/2006 21:14

Er... AP the reason her break involves more work for you is because you're with her children's father. That's the deal when you take on being a stepmother, or am I being a bit obtuse?

DizzyBinterWonderland · 13/12/2006 21:18

it's just that sort of sneering attitude that makes step kids feel like a piece of shit you, as the step mother, stepped on -american pie.

AmericanPie · 13/12/2006 21:24

just don't see why she expects me to look after her child when she knows DH is working - nothing to do with step-child...this is to do with attitudes of some BM who think the world owes them.

Bit like the BM in the original post

Oh and will ignore the lets blame the step-parent for everything thats wrong in a stepchilds life jibe!

7swansaswimmingup · 13/12/2006 21:27

and can we drop the BM please and call the ex wifes exactly what they are, the ex

DizzyBinterWonderland · 13/12/2006 21:37

it has everything to do with the step kids. they pick up on your bitterness, that they are extra work etc. you married their dad,so his kids and his ex are part of the package. deal with it.

ChristmasCaroligula · 13/12/2006 21:39

Oh AP grow up.

QuadropheniaonIce · 13/12/2006 21:59

On first reading I would have agreed with the 'they're his kids' arguement, but the more I have read and thought about this I can completely see where you are coming from. Communication has to be the key and when it breaks down it inevitably has repurcussions and it simply isn't good enough for your dps ex to say 'they are your kids deal with it.'
She sounds like she is behaving very unreasonably which isn't fair on the children, to go on a holiday when it means the kids have to do such a huge amount of travelling in her absence isn't really thinking of the kids is it?
Surely together or sperated it is up to parenst to consider the ramifications of their actions on their children and its clear that your dp' ex hasn't done this in this particular situation. I really hope you all find a solution which works and has as little impact on the kids as possible.

catsmother · 13/12/2006 22:38

I agree with Quad.

I was a single mum for 9 years and would never have dreamt of "telling" my ex when he was to have our son. That would be plain rude and yes, in the real world, how many people can take holiday from work at short notice ? (If I said to my DP I was off for 2 weeks and he'd have to look after our daughter, that would be unrealistic and has nothing to do with how much he loves her etc). My ex was self employed too and as someone already said, this really doesn't make any difference in many roles regarding time off at short notice. Many self employed people have commitments booked in months in advance ..... to suddenly cancel/postpone those could well have a knock-on effect on several customers and not just one. Fair or not, the business could be seen as unreliable ....

.... I always figured that were I to make demands (as opposed to requests) of my ex and time off, his earning capacity might be affected and therefore, also the child maintenance he gave me.

I also felt that a "you're having him, like it or lump it" attitude would do nothing to foster a civilised, polite, business-like relationship between me and him when it came to negotiating all sorts of issues/care regarding our son.

Such a demand would have been equivalent to him saying he couldn't see our son for x number of weeks, regardless of any plans I had made .....

..... and yes, I know there are some men (and absent mothers) who DO behave like that, but the poster here and her partner do NOT sound like that at all. Her DP sounds as if he takes an active and responsible interest in his children so the theory that she told him she was having a holiday because he might not otherwise agree is ridiculous and selfish. DP doesn't sound like he'd say "no" out of spite - but quite reasonably would like to negotiate dates and practical arrangements.

Any normal person wanting to go away without their kids would ask beforehand, and ideally thrash out a plan of how this would work practically, especially given the distances involved. Again, the "they're your kids, deal with it" attitude misses the point. The poster's DP does not have the same network of friends and/or other mums that the children's mother does and presumably cannot easily approach them himself to see if they can help out.

As another poster said, someone who'd prepared to indulge themselves and in the process condemn their children to a shed load of awkward travelling really isn't thinking of them. Had she not been so bloody-minded this might well have been avoided (by going on another date, perhaps during half term, by enlisting the help of other mums etc).

So yes, I completely understand why the poster here is pissed off because the children's mother has behaved appallingly IMO. What sort of example is that to set to them ? .......... that it's ok to do whatever you want, no matter how it impacts on others.

She has emphasised several times that the children will be welcomed and the necessary arrangements to get them to and from school will be made at whatever practical and financial cost. I feel she has been villified by quite a few other posters rather unfairly when all she's doing is sounding off at someone else's rudeness and thoughtlessness ..... which is a constant topic on many areas of these boards.

Oh and BTW, my son is now a stepchild too since his dad has remarried. I couldn't care less if I was referred to as BM in the context of a written forum. I should imagine most people use this abbreviation for convenience sake as it is far quicker than writing "the stepchild's mother" every time.

mozhe · 14/12/2006 12:01

On a slightly different note,( but I guess illustrating the point of ' making them welcome at all costs' ),my mum inherited 2 step daughters when she married my dad.They were 9 and 16,and deeply traumatized through the long/difficult parting of their parents and the subsequent suicide of their mum,( whilst they were on a rare stayover with her....), although my parents went on to have nine chiildren of their own,( so pretty full on parenting experience for my mum ! and she worked fulltime as a paediatrician too...all this in the 60s and 70s, so even more unusual then ).She ALWAYS treated the 2 SDs just as if they were he r own, their was absolutely no differences made....to the extent of paying for their education/weddings/deposits on first homes etc,( my dad never earnt as much as mum due to ill health, she was the main bread winner ).She was thrilled when the eldest qualified as a doctor, and used to intro them both as ' my eldest daughters ',( though when quizzed about the big age gap between them and the rest of us....10/17 years compared with no more than 2.5 years between any of the rest of us...she always told the truth...).The 9 year old was very difficult for years and years,( well what would you expect...), and developed drug and alcohol probs as an adult,again my mum paid countless times for rehab, eventually she got clean by mum renting a house for them both miles away from civilization and doing it themselves....Mum always says that us' younger ones' grew under her heart but the 2 DSs grew IN her heart....I know they didn't have a mother anymore but did have a large extended family,( from their birth mum ), that did nothing but criticize and throw the spanner iin the works.....mum never said a word against them, ever.She always said' I fell in love with your dad AND X and Y...so when I married him, they were part of the package......She was a saint my mum....

anniemac · 14/12/2006 12:04

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anniemac · 14/12/2006 12:06

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anniemac · 14/12/2006 12:11

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compo · 14/12/2006 12:16

Definitely agree with Hatwoman and AmericanPie. I think you are being more than accommodating given that she boked a hliday without consulting your dp first.

amp · 14/12/2006 13:37

Zazas - can't belive all the negative responses you've had.I completely understand your feelings,I think the 'mother'(BM) is being unresonable not discussing it with her ex first.Of course you'd be happy to have the kids, thats not the issue,why can't others see that?It's not as if you live around the corner from them,what about all the travelling for the children?As parents they should both work together for the good of their children, which is what this 'mother' has failed to recognise.Why are the fathers always painted as the baddies and the 'mothers' as saints.Women like this want the best of both worlds and are selfish.Sorrry no advice really cos the 'mother' holds all the cards.Would she be happy to sacrafice the maintenance payments to cover your lose? One thinks not? Good luck with it all!
In response to yenia - English law also allows the 'mother'(BM)to dictate completely the terms of a fathers contact with his children if indeed she allows it at all!Fathers have no say in the contact they have with their children and the law is only interested in chasing them for money while allowing the 'mother' to refuse contact by way of getting-her-own-back at him! Of course I understand that some fathers don't want the resposibility of being with their children (as with your's) but the majority do and long to see more of their children if only the mother would allow! And I'm sure if she did say 'I'll have the number of nights you did last year' the father would be quiet happy but that she wouldn't want to give up all the financial benefits and have to pay him maintenance!

zazas · 14/12/2006 14:08

Thanks for those who have offerred support especially catsmother and amp and have understood that it is not about having the children with us at all but the lack of respect from DP's ex in discussing this with us first etc etc etc.

I have a exdh who has since remarried and has a child together with is wife and like other posters I would never 'tell' my ex that he was having the kids so I could have a holiday and was expected to drop his work hours (which he couldn't). But then again I wouldn't go away from my kids for 16 days during school time knowing that I was causing quite a lot of distruption to their lives.

The bottom line is that the kids all 4 will be fine as they are loved by both sets of parents and they know that. I loved your story mozhe, what an incredible Mother. DP knows that he has my full support behind him when it comes to his kids as I do with regard to mine. He knows his ex is selfish and we deal with it together he just get's upset when it impacts on the kids.

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